Charlie Strong Article

[IronRanger91]

I could not be more thrilled with Coach Kill and am happy that we have him as our head coach. However, I thought people may find this article interesting since Charlie Strong was a finalist in 2007.

http://espn.go.com/espn/feature/sto...e-strong-rebuilds-longhorns-way-espn-magazine

 

[Go4]

he was on the u campus when the brewster news broke and he was quoted as being very upset and feeling used. we missed out on a gem. who knows how long he would have lasted, but he's clearly a great coach.

 

[e.bigelow]

These sort of things make me dislike Maturi even more than I already do. What a schmuck.

Charlie Strong would have done a marvelous job here. Hindsight is 20/20, I guess.

 

[husker70]

One thing I like he is doing, you have to earn The Bevo Horns. As camp opened everyone had white helmets.

 

[Unregistered User]

These sort of things make me dislike Maturi even more than I already do. What a schmuck.

Charlie Strong would have done a marvelous job here. Hindsight is 20/20, I guess.

And if he did, he would already be gone. This was a stepping stone for him. I truly believe Kill wants to have this be his last job. Maybe not the best path to get to this point.

 

[e.bigelow]

And if he did, he would already be gone. This was a stepping stone for him. I truly believe Kill wants to have this be his last job. Maybe not the best path to get to this point.

I can agree with that UU!

 

[Ski U Mah Gopher]

And if he did, he would already be gone. This was a stepping stone for him. I truly believe Kill wants to have this be his last job. Maybe not the best path to get to this point.

If he was gone another job it means he was successful here and we might have been to a B1G championship game and a NYD bowl.

 

[beavergopher]

And if he did, he would already be gone. This was a stepping stone for him. I truly believe Kill wants to have this be his last job. Maybe not the best path to get to this point.

Perhaps, but he would have left behind a desirable job, not the train wreck left by Brewster.

 

[oak_street1981]

These sort of things make me dislike Maturi even more than I already do. What a schmuck.

Charlie Strong would have done a marvelous job here. Hindsight is 20/20, I guess.

I recorded all of the Minnesota day Big Ten Network events from a couple of weeks ago and finally go around to re-watching three of the games in the last few days.

A few comments on that experience:

Music City Bowl 2002 UM 29 Arkansas 12
-I was there but I did not remember that the Mason running game actually picked up steam for 2003 that day. Jackson played but was ill (that i remember) but Thomas Tapeh had 100 plus yards and some real power runs, plus a great TD run in the 4th Q.
-K Assad had a cannon of an arm, and threw a 60 plus yard pass under pressure and looked like he was in a drill doing it. Best arm I can recall at the U when healthy. Bob Davie and the other guy kept commenting on the difference a healty Kaliq made.

Minnesota beats Illinis 23-21 1996, last home game for Jim Wacker
-Fire ant defense, overly tan D Coordinator equals 315 rushing yards for Robert Holcomb
-Jimmy Wyrick, Thomas Hammner, #22 Carter all played well

-Horrible Metrodome Atmosphere, losts of empty blue seats glad i had to work on Saturdays back then because that was one awful, toxic environmnent. Only the 2007 Brewster 2nd half post mushroom cloud of a 1-11 season compares. I cannot imaging what old diehards like #44 Bob M. were thinking when living through this garbage.

2005 Mason finally beats Tiller in OT Maroney rushes for 250 plus, Brandon Owens makes game winning plays
-Back to the original posters point, watching this replay reminded why Joel Maturi was such a failure and set back the program years.

The B10 Network cut a lot out of most of these broadcasts but made a point of showing a sideline interview with the Junior HS AD/ Typing teacher Maturi and they point blank asked him if the absurdly delayed Mason contract was hurting recruiting. In typical deer in the headlight fashion, the dithering Maturi claimed that the mess of his own creation was not hurting recruiting, then blamed Mason indirectly for not accepting previous offer over a year earlier.

Before all that, he made MN look idiotic, when he blathered on about how he has a better relationship with Glen Mason than anyone else knows. That was a very telling lie, as well know better. I bet Mason has some pretty great Maturi stories. I can only imagine having to move from reporting to men like Tom Moe and Mark Dienhart to Maturi. If it had been me, I'd have taken a MAC job, after resigning immeditately the day after encountering "Ranger Joel".

Joel Maturi was worst thing to happen to the football program (and the Women's Basketball program we will all see this season) and we can only hope this Rasputin like figure is finally under the ice and can no longer do any damage.

 

[husker70]

nm

 

[Iceland12]

Hard not to believe that Strong would have done a better job then Brewster. If nothing else his Defense would have been better so the loses wouldn't have been blowouts. Doesn't mean he would have been successful here though.

Take a look at what he did at Louisville. Most of his best talent came from Florida. How many of them would have even considered skipping all the D1 schools between Florida and Kentucky to come up here? Then how many could he get into the U? Same problems Brewster had. He convinced Maturi and company that since he could get good to great players to come to North Carolina and Texas he could get them to come up here.

He couldn't and Charlie probably couldn't get them from Florida or the Deep South either.

Kill and company have recruited the Midwest and North for years. They said on the record a number of times how they'd like to have more 4-5 Star players, but they're not going to waste their time on guys they have no shot at. Brewster never got that message. Don't know if Strong would have. At Louisville and Texas he doesn't have to worry about it.

No strike that. Brewster finally DID get the message and tried to change his Offense to become more of a Power Running/Big Ten Offense. Thus throwing out the one thing that often worked for him.

Hard to believe Strong would have been desperate enough to do that.

 

[Winasota Gopher]

Hard not to believe that Strong would have done a better job then Brewster. If nothing else his Defense would have been better so the loses wouldn't have been blowouts. Doesn't mean he would have been successful here though.

Take a look at what he did at Louisville. Most of his best talent came from Florida. How many of them would have even considered skipping all the D1 schools between Florida and Kentucky to come up here? Then how many could he get into the U? Same problems Brewster had. He convinced Maturi and company that since he could get good to great players to come to North Carolina and Texas he could get them to come up here.

He couldn't and Charlie probably couldn't get them from Florida or the Deep South either.

Kill and company have recruited the Midwest and North for years. They said on the record a number of times how they'd like to have more 4-5 Star players, but they're not going to waste their time on guys they have no shot at. Brewster never got that message. Don't know if Strong would have. At Louisville and Texas he doesn't have to worry about it.

No strike that. Brewster finally DID get the message and tried to change his Offense to become more of a Power Running/Big Ten Offense. Thus throwing out the one thing that often worked for him.

Hard to believe Strong would have been desperate enough to do that.

Isn't Charlie strong open about not caring about getting good recruits, he's more interested in getting good coachable kids? A quick look at the last couple years at UL and he brought in maybe 3 or 4 4stars per class. Sounds quite similar to a guy we have today.

Strong would have been an infinite times better than Brewster, and if it would have been a stepping stone, the only problem there would have been we might have overlooked Kill as his replacement because we thought we were better than him.

My point is that I don't think Strong would have had a problem getting the recruits he wanted. Chances are he's picking from the 2nd and 3rd level of prospects and then from that point the location of the school becomes less of a burden seeing as we would likely be one of a few big10 offers the kid has.

 

[Iceland12]

Isn't Charlie strong open about not carrying about getting good recruits, he's more interested in getting good coachable kids? A quick look at the last couple years at UL and he brought in maybe 3 or 4 4stars per class. Sounds quite similar to a guy we have today.

Strong would have been an infinite times better than Brewster, and if it would have been a stepping stone, the only problem there would have been we might have overlooked Kill as his replacement because we thought we were better than him.

My point is that I don't think Strong would have had a problem getting the recruits he wanted. Chances are he's picking from the 2nd and 3rd level of prospects and then from that point the location of the school becomes less of a burden seeing as we would likely be one of a few big10 offers the kid has.

Possibly, but there's nothing on his record at Louisville to prove that and nobody was screaming what a great coach he was after those first two 7-6 seasons. The Cardinals in the 20 years before he took over in 1990 had six losing records and two were in the two years before Strong took over. From 2000 to those two years they had 9 win seasons three times, 11 win seasons twice and went 12-1 and won the Orange Bowl in 2006!

The Kragthrope years of 6-6, 5-7 and 4-8 right before Strong took over were the outlier years, not the norm. Strong went 7-6, 7-6 before he had the breakthrough season of 11-2 last year. A record that had been equaled or bettered in 3 of the 6 years before Kragthrope took over.

With that in mind and looking where his best players came from you think he would have been a constant 9 -12 win Coach at Minnesota? A school that's won 9 or more games ONCE.

Now he's at Texas, a major, major school in a hotbed of talent it's pretty easy for him to talk about needing "coachable" kids. We'll see how many 4-5 star players without major off-field problems he turns down because they're not "coachable".

 

[e.bigelow]

Hard not to believe that Strong would have done a better job then Brewster. If nothing else his Defense would have been better so the loses wouldn't have been blowouts. Doesn't mean he would have been successful here though.

Take a look at what he did at Louisville. Most of his best talent came from Florida. How many of them would have even considered skipping all the D1 schools between Florida and Kentucky to come up here? Then how many could he get into the U? Same problems Brewster had. He convinced Maturi and company that since he could get good to great players to come to North Carolina and Texas he could get them to come up here.

He couldn't and Charlie probably couldn't get them from Florida or the Deep South either.

Kill and company have recruited the Midwest and North for years. They said on the record a number of times how they'd like to have more 4-5 Star players, but they're not going to waste their time on guys they have no shot at. Brewster never got that message. Don't know if Strong would have. At Louisville and Texas he doesn't have to worry about it.

No strike that. Brewster finally DID get the message and tried to change his Offense to become more of a Power Running/Big Ten Offense. Thus throwing out the one thing that often worked for him.

Hard to believe Strong would have been desperate enough to do that.

I can see what your saying Ice. I just think that Strong would have had a consistent coaching staff here, I.E. not a revolving door of coordinators every year, which helped doom Timmy, among other things. That alone would have helped out our team. Plus, I do not think Strong would have put up with Jew-Jew Party and players like that. I would guess we would have had a few different recruits than we actually had. Just my opinion though.

 

[Iceland12]

I can see what your saying Ice. I just think that Strong would have had a consistent coaching staff here, I.E. not a revolving door of coordinators every year, which helped doom Timmy, among other things. That alone would have helped out our team. Plus, I do not think Strong would have put up with Jew-Jew Party and players like that. I would guess we would have had a few different recruits than we actually had. Just my opinion though.

Don't disagree with any of that Mr.Bigelow. None of it. Just think that Strong would have been another in a long line of Gopher Head Coaches, going back to Stoll, with mediocre records. Mainly because the players he depends on came from the South. Mason brought players in from Ohio and New Jersey and had 3 good seasons. You have to go back to Warmath to find a coach who's great players came from the South and that was a long, long time ago.

Kill's Midwest base and that "consistent coaching" you mention give me more hope.

 

[dpodoll68]

Joel Maturi was worst thing to happen to the football program

 

[Winasota Gopher]

Possibly, but there's nothing on his record at Louisville to prove that and nobody was screaming what a great coach he was after those first two 7-6 seasons. The Cardinals in the 20 years before he took over in 1990 had six losing records and two were in the two years before Strong took over. From 2000 to those two years they had 9 win seasons three times, 11 win seasons twice and went 12-1 and won the Orange Bowl in 2006!

And just like there was no one screaming that Kill was a great coach his first year or two at the U.

UL has some history with great teams prior to and during the 1st stint of Petrino years. The 20 years prior to the departure of Petrino are irrelevant to grading Charlie Strong's ability to turn around a program that was in a worse situation than we were in when we had Strong as a candidate for the UofM's coaching gig.

The Kragthrope years of 6-6, 5-7 and 4-8 right before Strong took over were the outlier years, not the norm. Strong went 7-6, 7-6 before he had the breakthrough season of 11-2 last year. A record that had been equaled or bettered in 3 of the 6 years before Kragthrope took over.

So the program took a fall after the exit of Petrino and you're going to completely discount that Kragthrope may have left a barren cupboard for Strong to work with? And not recognize that the team improved his first year on campus (a tough task for new coaches) and when he finally got his system in place (YEAR 3, sound familiar Kill fans?) he broke out with a 12-1 year.

With that in mind and looking where his best players came from you think he would have been a constant 9 -12 win Coach at Minnesota?

No. Don't know who said that. I'm stating he would have been infinitely times better than Brewster.

A school that's won 9 or more games ONCE.

Relevancy check? We're talking about a coach turning a program around with less than top tier talent. It has to be done with kids that don't necessarily care about tradition and relevancy from a national perspective. Kill excels at that, my point about Strong is it looks like he achieved that at UL.

Now he's at Texas, a major, major school in a hotbed of talent it's pretty easy for him to talk about needing "coachable" kids. While see how many 4-5 star players without major off-field problems he turns down because they're not "coachable".

I referenced his recruiting while at UL not his recruiting while at Texas. He rarely picked up 4star kids, in fact, our 2014 class is quite comparable to his 2014 class had we picked up one more 4star (stretch).

I get your point on the Southern schools being a tough sell for Minnesota coaches. However, my point was that Charlie has "shown" that he could do more with lesser recruits kinda like the guy we got now. My opinion was that Charlie could pick up 3 star guys out of Florida and the other big talent areas and get them to come up to Minnesota because they might only have a couple big 10 offers on the table as their best schools. Mason routinely recruited out of FL, had Strong come in after Mason, like we are talking about, he could have picked up right where Mason left off.

 

[everybody knows my name]

As of 2007, a longtime assistant coach, mentored by some prominent head coaches, who came highly recommended but had never been a head coach before. Am I talking about Strong or Brewster?

 

[Dr.Don]

Charlie Strong at Texas, Patterson at TCU, Kill at Minnesota are a lot alike.


They all say, "If you come, we will build it. And no bullschidtt, or you're gone."

That is what I admire in a coach. "We will lose without you before we will try win with you. Play the game right, on and off the field, and you will basically have a free education that will make your future."

 

[Iceland12]

And just like there was no one screaming that Kill was a great coach his first year or two at the U.

UL has some history with great teams prior to and during the 1st stint of Petrino years. The 20 years prior to the departure of Petrino are irrelevant to grading Charlie Strong's ability to turn around a program that was in a worse situation than we were in when we had Strong as a candidate for the UofM's coaching gig.

They're relevant from a recruiting standpoint. Strong's point to recruits and their parents would be that it was the previous Coach, not the school and it's program that was lousy. Also understand why you had to use the "20 years", because saying that "the 9 seasons before Kragthorpe" wouldn't have helped you there.

So the program took a fall after the exit of Petrino and you're going to completely discount that Kragthrope may have left a barren cupboard for Strong to work with? And not recognize that the team improved his first year on campus (a tough task for new coaches) and when he finally got his system in place (YEAR 3, sound familiar Kill fans?) he broke out with a 12-1 year

Hardly; that was the point. It was Kragthrope that was the problem at Louisville. Strong didn't "turn the program around" he brought it back to where things were before Kragthorpe got there.

No. Don't know who said that. I'm stating he would have been infinitely times better than Brewster

Sorry, but what would be "infinitely" better than 7-6 and 6-7? I picked 9 wins or more, but yeah, that was just speculation.

Relevancy check? We're talking about a coach turning a program around with less than top tier talent. It has to be done with kids that don't necessarily care about tradition and relevancy from a national perspective. Kill excels at that, my point about Strong is it looks like he achieved that at UL

Recruiting. Again, a program's prominence would be of value at Louisville and will be at Texas too.

I referenced his recruiting while at UL not his recruiting while at Texas. He rarely picked up 4star kids, in fact, our 2014 class is quite comparable to his 2014 class had we picked up one more 4star (stretch).

Understood, and that was the point. While that was relevant for the Cardinals, we'll have to see if it holds-up at Texas or like Holtz at Arkansas is he just making an early example. An example that Lou violated at Minnesota, Notre Dame and South Carolina. Strong has started well at Texas but his time at Florida and the history of Texas football should give you pause.

I get your point on the Southern schools being a tough sell for Minnesota coaches. However, my point was that Charlie has "shown" that he could do more with lesser recruits kinda like the guy we got now. My opinion was that Charlie could pick up 3 star guys out of Florida and the other big talent areas and get them to come up to Minnesota because they might only have a couple big 10 offers on the table as their best schools. Mason routinely recruited out of FL, had Strong come in after Mason, like we are talking about, he could have picked up right where Mason left off.

Thanks but besides that and a mutual feeling that Brewster was awful, we don't seem to be agreeing on much else. You feel strongly (sorry) that Strong turned a moribund program at Louisville around to become a big time program and would have done the same here. I think that besides Kragthorpe, Louisville HAD a very good program that Strong indeed, brought them back too. Here, he would have been trying to create that kind of program.

That we'll never know. We'll find out if Kill can do it though won't we.

Corrected.

 

[e.bigelow]

Don't disagree with any of that Mr.Bigelow. None of it. Just think that Strong would have been another in a long line of Gopher Head Coaches, going back to Stoll, with mediocre records. Mainly because the players he depends on came from the South. Mason brought players in from Ohio and New Jersey and had 3 good seasons. You have to go back to Warmath to find a coach who's great players came from the South and that was a long, long time ago.

Kill's Midwest base and that "consistent coaching" you mention give me more hope.

I can agree with all of this.

 

[Maximus]

As of 2007, a longtime assistant coach, mentored by some prominent head coaches, who came highly recommended but had never been a head coach before. Am I talking about Strong or Brewster?

Is "longtime assistant coach" code for "defensive coordinator at 2 SEC schools over 11 year span" or "tight ends coach"?

 

[e.bigelow]

Is "longtime assistant coach" code for "defensive coordinator at 2 SEC schools over 11 year span" or "tight ends coach"?

Can also be misconstrued with "Recruited Vince Young" and "#TallySwag".

 

[Iceland12]

Is "longtime assistant coach" code for "defensive coordinator at 2 SEC schools over 11 year span" or "tight ends coach"?

Defensive coordinator at 2 SEC schools over 11 year span" > " Special Teams, Tight ends coach, Recruiting Coordinator at ACC and Big12 schools over 11 years and NFL TE and Assistant Head Coach over 6 years" IMHO. History's too I think.

Hindsight is fun.

 

[Dr.Don]

Can also be misconstrued with "Recruited Vince Young" and "#TallySwag".

None of it matters. Brew was a another failed experiment by Maturi.

Teague, Kill, Pitino, et.al. are trying to resurrect
Christ.

 

[Winasota Gopher]

Corrected.

I do not feel strongly that Strong (winced) brought them around to a big time program and would have done the same here. I said he did more with lesser recruits much like our current coach. And could have done similar here. Does that mean turning us into a 9 win /season team, not necessarily, but I feel he would have maintained Masons track record of bowl games with a good chance of improving on it.

I also stated that he would be infinitely better than Brewster, to which we disagree on what that means, and it's a complete game of semantics. So #'s aside, I feel Strong's character and apparent coaching ability (per track record at UL vs Brewsters track record at UofM with similar recruiting styles and results of heavy 3 star and occasional 4 star classes) would have achieved better results than Brewster did (read the program moved forward rather than backwards).

While I understand your point on the prominence of UL prior to Strong's time there, I don't think it has AS BIG of an impact on 2nd and 3rd tier Florida/Texas recruits. I also don't know if UL is as close to a helmet school as you are portraying them. They had success with Smith while in CUSA and won the Big East the 2nd year they were in the conference under Petrino, but they are far from a helmet school. The 20 year history of greatness you quoted they finished ranked 6 times. UofM at the time of Mason's exit likely wasn't THAT far behind them in terms of brand recognition considering one played in the Big10 for all 20 of those years while the other had just entered the Big East. Throw in the stadium as a selling tool and you are even closer.

No doubt Strong would have had a hard time here, thats not the conversation. The conversation is Brewster vs Strong, I'm taking Strong 100% of the time and i know its hindsight bias to the fullest.

 

[Iceland12]

I do not feel strongly that Strong (winced) brought them around to a big time program and would have done the same here. I said he did more with lesser recruits much like our current coach. And could have done similar here. Does that mean turning us into a 9 win /season team, not necessarily, but I feel he would have maintained Masons track record of bowl games with a good chance of improving on it.

I also stated that he would be infinitely better than Brewster, to which we disagree on what that means, and it's a complete game of semantics. So #'s aside, I feel Strong's character and apparent coaching ability (per track record at UL vs Brewsters track record at UofM with similar recruiting styles and results of heavy 3 star and occasional 4 star classes) would have achieved better results than Brewster did (read the program moved forward rather than backwards).

While I understand your point on the prominence of UL prior to Strong's time there, I don't think it has AS BIG of an impact on 2nd and 3rd tier Florida/Texas recruits. I also don't know if UL is as close to a helmet school as you are portraying them. They had success with Smith while in CUSA and won the Big East the 2nd year they were in the conference under Petrino, but they are far from a helmet school. The 20 year history of greatness you quoted they finished ranked 6 times. UofM at the time of Mason's exit likely wasn't THAT far behind them in terms of brand recognition considering one played in the Big10 for all 20 of those years while the other had just entered the Big East. Throw in the stadium as a selling tool and you are even closer.

No doubt Strong would have had a hard time here, thats not the conversation. The conversation is Brewster vs Strong, I'm taking Strong 100% of the time and i know its hindsight bias to the fullest.

Understood, but there is no conversation about Strong vs. Brewster. Don't think anybody out there would pick Brewster after what's transpired. Oddly enough, besides the Administration at the U and the people who think that Reusse was (is)a doosch-bag, the only people at the time that favored Brewster were people from Texas and fans of the Chargers. Florida fans, much like many Texas fans early this year, didn't think much of Strong leaving either to Minnesota or later to Louisville.

As for Strong and what he did at Louisville, we just plain disagree on why and what it meant. You put a much lower premium on location and reputation then I do. That's never gonna be resolved.

 

[Winasota Gopher]

Understood, but there is no conversation about Strong vs. Brewster. Don't think anybody out there would pick Brewster after what's transpired. Oddly enough, besides the Administration at the U and the people who think that Reusse was (is)a doosch-bag, the only people at the time that favored Brewster were people from Texas and fans of the Chargers. Florida fans, much like many Texas fans early this year, didn't think much of Strong leaving either to Minnesota or later to Louisville.

As for Strong and what he did at Louisville, we just plain disagree on why and what it meant. You put a much lower premium on location and reputation then I do. That's never gonna be resolved.

Agreed.