Charges: Fan assaulted referee at high school basketball game in northwestern Minnesota

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Bob_Loblaw said:
Yep, laziness mixed with entitlement.

I don't think the average construction worker is getting parents of opposing construction workers yelling at them.
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Wait til they invoice them for shoddy work performed!
 

I used to run our local youth program and one year I knew we had a bunch of parents that were going to be problematic-- yellers and screamers and had never played basketball. So I hired a ref from Stillwater that had writted a book about how to enjoy your kids sports career to come and give a speech, sell some books and educate some parents. We had a really good turnout overall because I tried to imply it was mandatory for their son to play (knowing we could never enforce that) but of course the top 6 parents that needed it the most, did not show up.
But overall, it worked. He explained a few common parent yells that aren't in the rules book anywhere. Like "over the back" and how "reaching in" is ok as long as there isn't any contact, and how if we really want to call 3 seconds every time a 5th grader is in the lane, the game will be 3 hours long.
one barrier to young refs moving up is the way the refs are assigned--at least in Western Wisconsin and the east metro-- if you don't go to a certain ref clinic and pay the right guy, you don't get any games. The MSHSL and the WIAA are good at getting you licensed but no help and getting you games. Lower level is easy because most Athletic Directors are always in need, but moving up is harder to navigate. By the time I figured it out, I had also figured out that doing a JV game takes about an hour and 15 minutes, need to be there 10 minutes early, make $60. Do a varsity game, they want you there an hour before the game, introductions are longer, half-time is longer, the game takes longer so it is a 3 hour gig for $85.00. Less running because of 3 refs vs 2, but way more standing around.
 



Bob_Loblaw said:
Yep, laziness mixed with entitlement.

I don't think the average construction worker is getting parents of opposing construction workers yelling at them.
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Really? Unemployment is very low and there are numerous job and career opportunities available to workers. Paying people shitty wages/benefits for shitty jobs just isn’t going to cut it. Many people have been forced to reevaluate their “careers” because of the pandemic and many have found out that the right skills, drive and determination can land you a better job. One where you have advancement possibilities, benefits and are treated with respect.
 


alchemy2u said:
Really? Unemployment is very low and there are numerous job and career opportunities available to workers. Paying people shitty wages/benefits for shitty jobs just isn’t going to cut it. Many people have been forced to reevaluate their “careers” because of the pandemic and many have found out that the right skills, drive and determination can land you a better job. One where you have advancement possibilities, benefits and are treated with respect.
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Your second and third sentences are fighting with each other "there are numerous job and career opportunities available to workers" and "paying people shitting wages/benefits isn't going to cut it". Unfortunately, they are both true. There are tons of good jobs available and people aren't taking them because of my point - - they are lazy and entitled.

Unemployment is low because the number of people actively looking for a job has decreased. That is also why there are numerous job as and careers available to workers.

Oddly enough, you hit the nail on the head. What you see as a virtue, I see as a problem. The same people who have too much dignity to work a shitty job have no issue with taking free money.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Your second and third sentences are fighting with each other "there are numerous job and career opportunities available to workers" and "paying people shitting wages/benefits isn't going to cut it". Unfortunately, they are both true. There are tons of good jobs available and people aren't taking them because of my point - - they are lazy and entitled.

Unemployment is low because the number of people actively looking for a job has decreased. That is also why there are numerous job as and careers available to workers.

Oddly enough, you hit the nail on the head. What you see as a virtue, I see as a problem. The same people who have too much dignity to work a shitty job have no issue with taking free money.
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You are confused. The point I was making was that there are many better jobs available and people do not have settle for the shitty ones. There are also many more opportunities for self employment, many that take people out of your actively looking category. You can continue on with the same old narrative, but it doesn’t fit today’s workforce.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Yep, laziness mixed with entitlement.

I don't think the average construction worker is getting parents of opposing construction workers yelling at them.
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Right. But leadership might be inhabited by the God complex type. Bad management is one of the big issues that people just aren't putting up with anymore.
 

alchemy2u said:
You are confused. The point I was making was that there are many better jobs available and people do not have settle for the shitty ones. There are also many more opportunities for self employment, many that take people out of your actively looking category. You can continue on with the same old narrative, but it doesn’t fit today’s workforce.
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You think I'm referring I'm referring to people who are self-employed as people who have dropped out of the workforce. No one has ever referred to these people when pointing to the people who have dropped out of the labor force. Being self-employed makes you a PART of the labor force.

It's a cold and hard fact that an enormous number of people have dropped out of the labor force and I agree with you that people have an incredible number of options of decent jobs. Yet, they still are dropping out of the labor force. I'd agree with your point (somewhat) if the only jobs were horrible, but even the worst jobs have gotten way better. Yet, people still are choosing not to work.
 



Nax5 said:
Right. But leadership might be inhabited by the God complex type. Bad management is one of the big issues that people just aren't putting up with anymore.
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They have too much dignity to put up with a bad boss but not too much dignity to take handouts. Anyone who is willing to take handouts because they won't put up with a mean boss has absolutely zero dignity. It's an excuse to cope with their laziness.

This idea that people "aren't putting up" with certain things anymore is only possible because of an incredible amount of handouts. They should be putting up with an ahole boss and repaying their student loans. They should be dealing with a less than ideal job rather than needing the government to pay for their food, childcare, medical insurance, etc.

This indignation will always be shallow while it is occurring at the same time they are begging for freebies (student loan forgiveness, medical insurance, welfare, COVID relief).

If we cut all freebies to anyone not in dire need, then these folks might be rebelling against the God complex types. Until then they are just requiring us to pay them tribute for their layabout lifestyle.
 


Bob_Loblaw said:
You think I'm referring I'm referring to people who are self-employed as people who have dropped out of the workforce. No one has ever referred to these people when pointing to the people who have dropped out of the labor force. Being self-employed makes you a PART of the labor force.

It's a cold and hard fact that an enormous number of people have dropped out of the labor force and I agree with you that people have an incredible number of options of decent jobs. Yet, they still are dropping out of the labor force. I'd agree with your point (somewhat) if the only jobs were horrible, but even the worst jobs have gotten way better. Yet, people still are choosing not to work.
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A simple question. Do you think a YouTuber is someone who has dropped out of the workforces or is self employed? Someone who just post video games they are playing, or riding a skateboard, or videos of them opening up boxes of stuff they have bought? Or maybe someone that is traveling the country living out of their van and post videos of what they experience. Are they lazy people who do not want to work and are living off handouts?
 

While I don’t agree with the fan assault I also think that officials have to look in the mirror. I have seen youth games where the official calling the game has no business even being involved. Hard to imagine anyone agreeing to officiate yet doesn’t know or understand the rules, but has an ego that over rules all since of responsibility. In some cases, it would be better to not even play the game.
 




Pete smith said:
While I don’t agree with the fan assault I also think that officials have to look in the mirror. I have seen youth games where the official calling the game has no business even being involved. Hard to imagine anyone agreeing to officiate yet doesn’t know or understand the rules, but has an ego that over rules all since of responsibility. In some cases, it would be better to not even play the game.
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This is the real crux of the issue for almost anything in our society.


Teachers, officials, roads, anything.

People want A quality and expect it. Complain when they don’t get it. But they’re only willing to pay a rate that attracts a D level candidate. It really isn’t the fault of officials reffing the game that they are the best available. I have literally talked to athletics directors at the 6a football level about the issue and they don’t get it. I suggested if they tripled the pay they would attract more People to be officials. He said that it wouldn’t. He clearly failed economics
 

MNVCGUY said:
That kind of behavior isn't surprising at all. Look at message boards. The refs sucked and clearly had it out for us....when my team lost.....if my team won the refs might have made a few mistakes but they did a good job.
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Yep. You see it all the time in college and pro sports also. It's the ultimate in weak-as-hell strawman excuses for losing, but it's now become a cultural aspect of sports.
 

Some guy said:
This is the real crux of the issue for almost anything in our society.


Teachers, officials, roads, anything.

People want A quality and expect it. Complain when they don’t get it. But they’re only willing to pay a rate that attracts a D level candidate. It really isn’t the fault of officials reffing the game that they are the best available. I have literally talked to athletics directors at the 6a football level about the issue and they don’t get it. I suggested if they tripled the pay they would attract more People to be officials. He said that it wouldn’t. He clearly failed economics
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Funny because I have had a similar conversation with league directors about finding coaches in youth sports. They are always desperate for parents to volunteer but are hesitant to incentivize them in any way to volunteer. My opinion is that if you step up to be a head coach your kid should be able to play for free. But have been told you get coaches for the wrong reason that way, and while that might be true in some cases, it would also get more parents to step up and many might find they enjoy it and want to stick with it.

Increasing pay for officials wouldn't solve all the issues but it would certainly attract more people potentially and might also make them more willing to put up with some of the BS from fans more.
 

bump - MN DFL Rep John Huot - who is a certified basketball referee - has introduced a bill in the MN State Legislature allowing people to be fined for misbehavior at youth sports events. It allows for fines of up to $5,000 for anyone who
*comes onto the field or court
*throws an object onto the field
*assaults or interferes with an official, coach or player during or after a game.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
bump - MN DFL Rep John Huot - who is a certified basketball referee - has introduced a bill in the MN State Legislature allowing people to be fined for misbehavior at youth sports events. It allows for fines of up to $5,000 for anyone who
*comes onto the field or court
*throws an object onto the field
*assaults or interferes with an official, coach or player during or after a game.
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Sounds good in theory. Can't imagine how difficult it would be to enforce though, especially at high school events where they are already pretty short on gameday staff.
 

Pete smith said:
While I don’t agree with the fan assault I also think that officials have to look in the mirror. I have seen youth games where the official calling the game has no business even being involved. Hard to imagine anyone agreeing to officiate yet doesn’t know or understand the rules, but has an ego that over rules all since of responsibility. In some cases, it would be better to not even play the game.
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The fact is that there is a referee shortage. Youth ball is no different. Schools often hire uncertified officials because they can’t find someone else. So they hire a couple of local guys who used to play basketball. The best way to improve officiating is for the critics to become officials.
 

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