CBS: As black hires decline, college football needs, but can't adopt, a Rooney Rule

[BleedGopher]

per Dodd:

Despite Jinks' hiring, the number of black head coaches has dropped again as another round of the hiring carousel twirls through the offseason.

The rate remains shameful. The current 9.3 percent ratio of black head coaches is significantly worse than it was in 2011 (14 percent). Meanwhile, the number of African-American players in FBS is at its highest point in at least a quarter-century, 53 percent. (The United States' African-American population is approximately 13 percent.)

There were 17 black head coaches entering the 2011 season. There were 13 in 2015. There will be 12 in 2016.

There have been minority initiatives (the NCAA has several), promises and studies. But one fact is becoming increasingly clear: At that highest level of college football, there is little concrete can be done by the sport's governing body.

“Legally, no, there probably isn't [anything we can do],” NCAA president Mark Emmert said earlier this month.

“The biggest challenge is we've literally got 19,000 teams. The NFL has 32. [Our teams] all operate in independent labor law environments. All the hiring authorities [are] decentralized across 1,100 colleges and us.”

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...e-football-needs-but-cant-adopt-a-rooney-rule

Go Gophers!!

 

[minibeaver]

Interesting. IMO, most hiring authorities for Universities and Colleges hire the coach they think will win the most games, regardless of skin color.

 

[Section2]

So the rate of head coaches has recently hovered around the percent of blacks in the US and this is shameful? How silly. Is it shameful that too few Asians play D1 football?

 

[scher215]

Interesting. IMO, most hiring authorities for Universities and Colleges hire the coach they think will win the most games, regardless of skin color.

You spelt "raise the most money" wrong. Which does come from wins, but a black coach can be a tougher sell to some boosters. Especially in an age where public funding typically is dropping and private money is even more important.

The other side of it is what makes a HC candidate that is the right hire? If black coaches aren't being picked as OC's, DC's, etc. as well they aren't ever getting the experience needed to be a viable HC candidate. Not sure any numbers on that, but it would be interesting to see the coordinator figures as well. If you can't get hired for the entry level job per se, you aren't ever going to even be a reasonable candidate for the big one. And why can't black coaches get the entry level job? That's where you can debate away

 

[GopherHomer]

Quick - everybody get into their corners.

 

[DarrenTheGreek]

Couldn't one turn this around and say that the number of non-black players in college football is "shameful"? It's simple....hire the best , recruit the best.

 

[Ignatius L Hoops]

Exhibit Local: Tim Brewster/Charlie Strong-the prosecution rests.

 

[Ski U Mah 55]

a black coach can be a tougher sell to some boosters. Especially in an age where public funding typically is dropping and private money is even more important.

Sadly this can be true, weren't there some rumblings of racist comments by Texas boosters when they hired Strong?

 

[Section2]

Sadly this can be true, weren't there some rumblings of racist comments by Texas boosters when they hired Strong?

Luckily he has shut them up with stellar performances on the field? It's hard to find a field that is more of a meritocracy than football coach. yes, there are some retreads like Will Muschamp that absolutely don't deserve it, but for the most part, everyone very very badly just wants to win and most of the time they don't care how.

 

[MrC]

So the rate of head coaches has recently hovered around the percent of blacks in the US and this is shameful? How silly. Is it shameful that too few Asians play D1 football?

It is perfectly valid to compare the rate of African-American coaches at 9.3% to players at 53%. And given the relative changes in each, it is a troubling trend. I think the comparisons to populations as a whole and to other ethnic groups misses the the point.

While "shameful" might be a loaded word, I don't think this issue is quite so easily dismissed.

 

[Tlsbhansen]

It is perfectly valid to compare the rate of African-American coaches at 9.3% to players at 53%. And given the relative changes in each, it is a troubling trend. I think the comparisons to populations as a whole and to other ethnic groups misses the the point.

While "shameful" might be a loaded word, I don't think this issue is quite so easily dismissed.

Why are we not fighting to have the number of non African-American players increased to represent the appropriate rate. Why don't we require every team to have a specific representative quota of every race?? (Asian, Hispanic, Native American, etc.) Why is it fair that the African American players get all the scholarships??

Oh yeah, is it because they might be the best athletes that give the team a chance to win? Why is that okay, but in coaching you want to require more African American coaches, not necessarily because they are the most qualified, but to fill a ideal ratio?

 

[Section2]

It is perfectly valid to compare the rate of African-American coaches at 9.3% to players at 53%. And given the relative changes in each, it is a troubling trend. I think the comparisons to populations as a whole and to other ethnic groups misses the the point.

While "shameful" might be a loaded word, I don't think this issue is quite so easily dismissed.

It's just as valid to complain that 53% of football players are black, while only representing 13% of the population, clearly they are given some kind of special preference.

 

[Hates Monikers]

It's just as valid to complain that 53% of football players are black, while only representing 13% of the population, clearly they are given some kind of special preference.

No, it's really not valid at all. There are a few posts in this thread that demonstrate a severe lack of history and social awareness.

Scher215 had a good point about black coaches being given opportunities and the chance to ascend the ranks. I don't know how that gets changed. But from a statistical standpoint it's difficult to believe that half players are black but most of them are not good coaches, while half are white and they usually make the best coaches. There are other factors at work.

 

[minibeaver]

You spelt "raise the most money" wrong. Which does come from wins, but a black coach can be a tougher sell to some boosters. Especially in an age where public funding typically is dropping and private money is even more important.

The other side of it is what makes a HC candidate that is the right hire? If black coaches aren't being picked as OC's, DC's, etc. as well they aren't ever getting the experience needed to be a viable HC candidate. Not sure any numbers on that, but it would be interesting to see the coordinator figures as well. If you can't get hired for the entry level job per se, you aren't ever going to even be a reasonable candidate for the big one. And why can't black coaches get the entry level job? That's where you can debate away

I think you make a valid point in that one needs the experience to be looked at seriously as HC candidate, and if a group is not given a fair shake at those jobs just under the HC title like OC or DC, than that's an issue. Where I guess we MAY disagree, is the prevalence we think this actually happens. Listen, I'm sure their are some old boosters out there that may be prejudice, but I really think those types are few and far between, at any school for the most part. Like you mentioned, it would be nice to see some stats on HC candidates, and what really goes on behind the scenes when hiring.

Like others mentioned, there is no one complaining about the lack of white athletes in college football. I'd like to think the best player/coach will be offered the job. And that's the way it should be.

 

[MNVCGUY]

It's just as valid to complain that 53% of football players are black, while only representing 13% of the population, clearly they are given some kind of special preference.

You can toss stuff like this around, put your head in the sand, and pretend like this is a non-issue if you want but the bottom line is that this is a systemic problem in football coaching. The big problem is how you fix it. You absolutely can't force schools to hire minorities as head coaches, and with the size and reach of the NCAA putting any kind of interviewing policy in place is next to impossible.

About the only thing you can really hope is that schools will start giving more opportunities to young up and coming coaches of all races as opposed to shuffling the same old retreads around from place to place.

 

[minibeaver]

You can toss stuff like this around, put your head in the sand, and pretend like this is a non-issue if you want but the bottom line is that this is a systemic problem in football coaching. The big problem is how you fix it. You absolutely can't force schools to hire minorities as head coaches, and with the size and reach of the NCAA putting any kind of interviewing policy in place is next to impossible.

About the only thing you can really hope is that schools will start giving more opportunities to young up and coming coaches of all races as opposed to shuffling the same old retreads around from place to place.

How do you know this? Seriously, I would like to know how you found proof of this, other than the stats in the article? I'd be willing to reconsider my opinion.

 

[Section2]

No, it's really not valid at all. There are a few posts in this thread that demonstrate a severe lack of history and social awareness.

Scher215 had a good point about black coaches being given opportunities and the chance to ascend the ranks. I don't know how that gets changed. But from a statistical standpoint it's difficult to believe that half players are black but most of them are not good coaches, while half are white and they usually make the best coaches. There are other factors at work.

From a statistical standpoint, it's difficult to believe that blacks are just better at football than other races. There must be something sinister at play.
This is the exact same argument you are making. Both arguments involve putting your head in the sand.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

Questions I can't answer:

Are blacks/minorities less interested in coaching opportunities?

In general (there are always exceptions), the people who go into coaching tend in many cases to be the less talented athletes - guys like Jerry Kill, who weren't great players, but loved the game and chose coaching as a way to stay involved in FB.

So, if (according to the participation stats), blacks/minorities tend to be the better athletes, maybe they are less likely overall to pursue coaching opportunities.

Again, I don't know. maybe there are lots of qualified black coaches or would-be coaches who can't get a job because they're black. Or, maybe, the short, slow white guys make up the majority of the coaches because those are the people who go into coaching.

 

[minibeaver]

Honest question: it is completely acceptable to say that their are generally more/better black athletes than white. We accept this as fact, given the percentages at D1 Football schools. However many would think it racist to say that maybe white folks are "better" at coaching.

In any case, I can't wait for all the racists to die off so maybe one day we can just worry about the best guy for the job. Color will never be asked, brought up, or thought about.

 

[scher215]

I think you make a valid point in that one needs the experience to be looked at seriously as HC candidate, and if a group is not given a fair shake at those jobs just under the HC title like OC or DC, than that's an issue. Where I guess we MAY disagree, is the prevalence we think this actually happens. Listen, I'm sure their are some old boosters out there that may be prejudice, but I really think those types are few and far between, at any school for the most part. Like you mentioned, it would be nice to see some stats on HC candidates, and what really goes on behind the scenes when hiring. Like others mentioned, there is no one complaining about the lack of white athletes in college football. I'd like to think the best player/coach will be offered the job. And that's the way it should be.

Just to clarify a little. I don't think it's a bunch of old boosters sitting around waiting for the next Klan meeting. I think it's a little simpler/less sinister than that.

Look at how much of a role Kill played in the funding for athletes village. Look at who he went to for money. Predominantly older, white men. Both as CEO's of companies and rich individuals. Now maybe they aren't racist per se, but who will an older white male typically be more comfortable talking to and giving his money to? White men. A group he is very familiar with, has encountered his whole life. Is himself. Etc. he goes in with a more open opinion, as I think we all do to some extent, towards someone who is like him.

I do think the same works in assistant hires too. I think we can safely say coaches are predominantly white. And coaches hiring assistants typically go with people they've worked with or know and maybe even are more like them. This side I'm a little naive on though. Maybe coaches of all races face those challenges entering the coaching fraternity? We only see it more clearly with black coaches since the original number was so low to begin with. Maybe we do need better ways for new coaches to get started in general.

As far as the players argument. It is interesting why that is the case. Theoretically, you wouldn't expect as big of a difference considering the fan make up of the sport is probably pretty similar to population make up. I am sure there is research out there as to why there is disparity, but I think it gets less play because we've typically decided that what players you sign is an equal opportunity for all kids (unless you're the Badgers basketball team sorry, kidding lol) while I'm not sure we can make that assumption when it comes to coaching hires. Maybe there is no bias, but there certainly isn't enough to say there isn't IMO.

 

[VACTERL]

Honest question: it is completely acceptable to say that their are generally more/better black athletes than white. We accept this as fact, given the percentages at D1 Football schools. However many would think it racist to say that maybe white folks are "better" at coaching.

It's not racist if it's anti-white.

 

[MrC]

From a statistical standpoint, it's difficult to believe that blacks are just better at football than other races. There must be something sinister at play.
This is the exact same argument you are making. Both arguments involve putting your head in the sand.

Once again I think you are missing the point of the original article. And you are making a strawman argument. Not only was that not the "exact" argument he was making, it was not even close.

The issue at play here is that the leadership (coaches) versus the non leaders (players) have vastly differing racial makeup and that difference is increasing.

And perhaps it is purely an innocent coincidence that this difference mirrors historical patterns of discrimination. But that seems damned unlikely. This is not "silly," it merits serious attention. I don't know what the answer is, but dismissing this issue is not the answer.

 

[Deckergopher]

I'm doing a study why there's so few white guys given a chance to play db and wr in NFL and college

 

[scher215]

I'm doing a study why there's so few white guys given a chance to play db and wr in NFL and college

In the case if players. Are we sure they haven't been given a chance? I think with coaches that is TBD. With players, I think it's pretty clear they all have the same chance.

 

[GopherHomer]

I'm doing a study why there's so few white guys given a chance to play db and wr in NFL and college

It's because they aren't good enough. Are you saying the same thing about black coaches?

 

[minibeaver]

It's because they aren't good enough. Are you saying the same thing about black coaches?

Would it be horrible to say that? It could be simply that their are less in the coaching profession, and that's why there are not as many qualified black head coaches in D1.

 

[Section2]

It's because they aren't good enough. Are you saying the same thing about black coaches?

It doesn't have to be an inherent racial or genetic trait. It could be cultural it could be poverty based it could be 100 different variables. it's hard to believe that one of the most liberal groups in the country, college presidents, are secretly racists. Depending on your politics of course.

 

[Ignatius L Hoops]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4XUbENGaiY

Seemingly, NCAA football still requires an Al Campanis moment-twenty-eight years after Major League Baseball. Damn we are slow.

 

[Myke]

Exhibit Local: Tim Brewster/Charlie Strong-the prosecution rests.

This is a terrible comp for so many reasons.

 

[Sportsfan24]

Interesting. IMO, most hiring authorities for Universities and Colleges hire the coach they think will win the most games, regardless of skin color.

True, and I dated women I believed to be attractive, charming, intelligent and a good fit for me. They all were black females. Those qualities can be found in plenty of white women....its preference and in hiring that's wrong...not to mention illegal.