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John Galt said:
The Claeysites loved Tracy and are embarrassed by PJ's way of doing things. They can't wait to tell us how big of a mistake it was to fire Tracy. With the expectation of 9 wins, they have created the perfect scenario for themselves. If PJ wins early, it was because of all the talent Tracy left behind. If he doesn't, it was a mistake to fire a 9 win coach.
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Ummm what about those of us that liked the coaching ability of Coach Claeys, were okay/ happy with hiring coach Fleck, but very disappointed in how AD Coyle handled the dismissal? Details matter!
 

STPGopher said:
Ummm what about those of us that liked the coaching ability of Coach Claeys, were okay/ happy with hiring coach Fleck, but very disappointed in how AD Coyle handled the dismissal? Details matter!
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I think this is IT for a lot of us.
 

Spoofin said:
Calling it his 2nd year is very transparent of your agenda. You must be kidding. Interim coaches are called something different for a reason. Did TC have an offseason before the 2nd half of '15 to bring in different coordinators he wanted, implement changes to the system he saw fit, motivate the players his way, bring in a recruiting class with the skills he wanted to fit his ideas, etc., etc. Nope - not until before the '16 season did he do any of that. And, then he did all of that.

Transparent, and to be honest, an incredibly weak take on here for you JG. I often don't agree with your takes, but they are usually solid and based in reality - not Lala land. Usually.


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And comparing Fleck and Tracy as 1st year head coaches at the U shows your agenda. Claeys had been here for 5 years as the DC and assistant head coach. He filled in for Kill for several stretches as the acting head coach when Kill was sick. And he was the head coach for half of 2015. He personally signed off on every defensive player on the roster and we were running his defense.

So please, don't compare Tracy's first full year with Flecks. It makes your agenda look too obvious.
 


STPGopher said:
Ummm what about those of us that liked the coaching ability of Coach Claeys, were okay/ happy with hiring coach Fleck, but very disappointed in how AD Coyle handled the dismissal? Details matter!
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I agree with all of this. I'm targeting the 20% that are expecting 9+ wins and think we are loaded.
 

John Galt said:
I agree with all of this. I'm targeting the 20% that are expecting 9+ wins and think we are loaded.
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Speaking for myself: I do not think the team is "loaded." I think the team returns good players at a number of positions. I also think that, like most programs that are not top-20 level programs, there are holes and depth issues.

Considering the Graduation losses, and coaching changes, I believe a reasonable expectation for this team is 7 or 8 wins. More than that would be a plus. Less than that would be a disappointment.

What I don't understand is people who act like Fleck is the 2nd coming, but with the next breath, do everything possible to lower expectations. It's like they're afraid that Fleck won't live up to expectations, so they're trying to create a ready-made excuse.

And - no one can say what the team's record would have been with Claeys as coach. You can guess, but you don't know for sure. so, IF Fleck goes - let's say 6-6 - anyone who says "Claeys would have had a worse record" is just making stuff up.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Speaking for myself: I do not think the team is "loaded." I think the team returns good players at a number of positions. I also think that, like most programs that are not top-20 level programs, there are holes and depth issues.

Considering the Graduation losses, and coaching changes, I believe a reasonable expectation for this team is 7 or 8 wins. More than that would be a plus. Less than that would be a disappointment.

What I don't understand is people who act like Fleck is the 2nd coming, but with the next breath, do everything possible to lower expectations. It's like they're afraid that Fleck won't live up to expectations, so they're trying to create a ready-made excuse.

And - no one can say what the team's record would have been with Claeys as coach. You can guess, but you don't know for sure. so, IF Fleck goes - let's say 6-6 - anyone who says "Claeys would have had a worse record" is just making stuff up.
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Well stated!
 

John Galt said:
And comparing Fleck and Tracy as 1st year head coaches at the U shows your agenda. Claeys had been here for 5 years as the DC and assistant head coach. He filled in for Kill for several stretches as the acting head coach when Kill was sick. And he was the head coach for half of 2015. He personally signed off on every defensive player on the roster and we were running his defense.

So please, don't compare Tracy's first full year with Flecks. It makes your agenda look too obvious.
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Well, they are both 1st year head coaches in this scenario, both going into an easy schedule, and both have TC's defensive players so there is some validity to that comparison. The main differences are more changes to style and staff on Fleck's part and a better recruiting class (on paper) for Claeys. No comparisons are perfect, but all in all this one is about as even you can get.

Unlike you, I don't try and hide my agenda. I don't see any reason we should expect less this year than we did last year. I think many things are similar and where we may have taken a step back on DB depth due to the scandal - we have added a better HC.


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short ornery norwegian said:
Speaking for myself: I do not think the team is "loaded." I think the team returns good players at a number of positions. I also think that, like most programs that are not top-20 level programs, there are holes and depth issues.

Considering the Graduation losses, and coaching changes, I believe a reasonable expectation for this team is 7 or 8 wins. More than that would be a plus. Less than that would be a disappointment.

What I don't understand is people who act like Fleck is the 2nd coming, but with the next breath, do everything possible to lower expectations. It's like they're afraid that Fleck won't live up to expectations, so they're trying to create a ready-made excuse.

And - no one can say what the team's record would have been with Claeys as coach. You can guess, but you don't know for sure. so, IF Fleck goes - let's say 6-6 - anyone who says "Claeys would have had a worse record" is just making stuff up.
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Spot On SON. There are only 4-5 posters that would disagree with this.


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John Galt said:
I agree with all of this. I'm targeting the 20% that are expecting 9+ wins and think we are loaded.
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Well, I do think that this team has talent and is certainly capable of going to a bowl game. Most posters I've read here are thinking anywhere from 5-7 to 9-3. IMHO that range is reasonable based on roster and coaching staff. I think all fans know that this team has some challenges, but also has much talent. All BigTen West teams except Northwestern, and Purdue are going to start the season with inexperienced QB's.
 

John Galt said:
The Claeysites loved Tracy and are embarrassed by PJ's way of doing things. They can't wait to tell us how big of a mistake it was to fire Tracy. With the expectation of 9 wins, they have created the perfect scenario for themselves. If PJ wins early, it was because of all the talent Tracy left behind. If he doesn't, it was a mistake to fire a 9 win coach.
Click to expand...

John Galt said:
I agree with all of this. I'm targeting the 20% that are expecting 9+ wins and think we are loaded.
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PJ has Heather. He doesn't need you looking out for him. He is a big boy now.

I also love how the narrative has changed from 8+ to 9+ since the polls were taken. So transparent.


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John Galt said:
The Claeysites loved Tracy and are embarrassed by PJ's way of doing things. They can't wait to tell us how big of a mistake it was to fire Tracy. With the expectation of 9 wins, they have created the perfect scenario for themselves. If PJ wins early, it was because of all the talent Tracy left behind. If he doesn't, it was a mistake to fire a 9 win coach.
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I have no interest in proving it was a mistake to fire TC. In fact, had Coyle handled it differently, I would have been fine with it because as a new AD you have every right to bring in a new guy.

That said, I still think there was a positive work ethic and culture established that PJ inherited, and he has said as much in recent weeks. Of course, he still has to establish his way of doing things, but it isn't a rebuild. There is also a lot of talent there, despite maybe being thin in depth in a few spots.

So, I still think the Gophers should start really strong given the schedule, and Oregon St looked bad. Who knows how the last few games go, but they should be in a positive position going into the last part of the season if they stay relatively healthy - which is true for almost every college team except the Alabamas, Ohio States, etc. If they start poorly I will be disappointed, but it has nothing to do with TC.


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highwayman said:
38162 is not half empty. Not even close.
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Sold vs. Attended. The stadium was not half full.

I'm not really debating your point, it was one of the many reasons Claeys is gone. There was no way that crowd should have been as sparse as it was, and the general malaise around the program was going to result in questions about the direction of the program. Personally, I enjoyed the hell out of that game and was mad more people couldn't be bothered to show up and support the team, but the crowd was pathetic.
 


caliGopher said:
Sold vs. Attended. The stadium was not half full.

I'm not really debating your point, it was one of the many reasons Claeys is gone. There was no way that crowd should have been as sparse as it was, and the general malaise around the program was going to result in questions about the direction of the program. Personally, I enjoyed the hell out of that game and was mad more people couldn't be bothered to show up and support the team, but the crowd was pathetic.
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I was at the Northwestern game, it was certainly more than half full. By midway through the fourth quarter it did get pretty sparse. I was so cold at that game, much colder for some reason than the Ohio St game three years ago. Look, I get Tracy Claeys wasn't the most gregarious fellow, but a lot of head coaches have personalities that don't lend themselves to fans buying tickets, that's just a weak ass cop out. PJ may be a better coach, but it has already been proven that just bringing him here doesnt equate to instant ticket sales. If he/they start winning and winning rivalry games, that will sell tickets.
 

HoustonTXGopher said:
I was at the Northwestern game, it was certainly more than half full. By midway through the fourth quarter it did get pretty sparse. I was so cold at that game, much colder for some reason than the Ohio St game three years ago. Look, I get Tracy Claeys wasn't the most gregarious fellow, but a lot of head coaches have personalities that don't lend themselves to fans buying tickets, that's just a weak ass cop out. PJ may be a better coach, but it has already been proven that just bringing him here doesnt equate to instant ticket sales. If he/they start winning and winning rivalry games, that will sell tickets.
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I saw it differently, but it doesn't really matter.

And I don't think Claeys was fired because of that crowd. I think that thin skinned, slinking, slimeball athletic directors with an agenda and without a clue could look at that crowd and use it as an excuse to justify what he'd already started to do, rather than have a set and be upfront about what he was doing.

Yeah, I saw that too.
 

caliGopher said:
I saw it differently, but it doesn't really matter.

And I don't think Claeys was fired because of that crowd. I think that thin skinned, slinking, slimeball athletic directors with an agenda and without a clue could look at that crowd and use it as an excuse to justify what he'd already started to do, rather than have a set and be upfront about what he was doing.

Yeah, I saw that too.
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First of all, I do not have an agenda- what ever the hell that means. Regardless of the outcome of this season, we are better off with PJFleck being the face of program than we would be with Claeys. Without question. Our recruiting will be better, our fund raising will be better, our product on the field will be better, our attendance will be better. Now will that means bigger or better bowls? Not necessarily, sometimes luck can over ride any well laid plans. But I do know this, if and when the Gophers are deciding between kicking for 1 or going for 2, the correct decision will be made.
 

Jack jones said:
First of all, I do not have an agenda- what ever the hell that means. Regardless of the outcome of this season, we are better off with PJFleck being the face of program than we would be with Claeys. Without question. Our recruiting will be better, our fund raising will be better, our product on the field will be better, our attendance will be better. Now will that means bigger or better bowls? Not necessarily, sometimes luck can over ride any well laid plans. But I do know this, <b>if and when the Gophers are deciding between kicking for 1 or going for 2, the correct decision will be made.</b>
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Sounds good. I just hope we don't run 12-second plays with 15 left when 1 yard away from winning the jug.


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Going back to the original topic though. OSU looked really bad, and I don't think it's unreasonable to expect Fleck to be 3-0 heading into conference play.
If we struggle with this OSU team then I will question whether Fleck sufficiently prepared this team in his first season.
 

I don't care if Oregon St "looked bad". 1. They were on the road. 2. It was game 1 versus a good opponent. It was 24-20 at the half. 3. The Gophers are at a documented major handicap traveling to the West Coast to play a football game versus anybody. 4. We typically get up at 5AM...we practiced yesterday in the morning for a night game in four days in week 1 and a way later night game in week 2 on our body clocks...does that really make sense? You want to simulate game conditions as closely as possible. We will be playing Oregon State with 9:00 o'clock kickoff... that's 16 hours after we usually get out of bed. That's 12 hours after we just practiced. Nobody thinks it matters? I hope they are reallllllly horrible and we somehow win but not agreeing with the practice times....at all.
No matter what...we beat Buffalo...I wish I felt the same versus Oregon St and I agree it could be but this is real and just the beginning of our situation...
:How are circadian rhythms related to jet lag?
Jet lag occurs when travelers suffer from disrupted circadian rhythms. When you pass through different time zones, your body's clock will be different from your wristwatch. For example, if you fly in an airplane from California to New York, you "lose" 3 hours of time. So when you wake up at 7:00 a.m., your body still thinks it's 4:00 a.m., making you feel groggy and disoriented. Your body's clock will eventually reset itself, but this often takes a few days.

In our case, to us it will be 9:00 PM...exactly bed time when we kickoff, if I'm going to get 8 hours sleep....with the schedule we are on. And 12 hours after our normal practice on the recent Sunday.
 

60's Guy said:
I don't care if Oregon St "looked bad". 1. They were on the road. 2. It was game 1 versus a good opponent. It was 24-20 at the half. 3. The Gophers are at a documented major handicap traveling to the West Coast to play a football game versus anybody. 4. We typically get up at 5AM...we practiced yesterday in the morning for a night game in four days in week 1 and a way later night game in week 2 on our body clocks...does that really make sense? You want to simulate game conditions as closely as possible. We will be playing Oregon State with 9:00 o'clock kickoff... that's 16 hours after we usually get out of bed. That's 12 hours after we just practiced. Nobody thinks it matters? I hope they are reallllllly horrible and we somehow win but not agreeing with the practice times....at all.
No matter what...we beat Buffalo...I wish I felt the same versus Oregon St and I agree it could be but this is real and just the beginning of our situation...
:How are circadian rhythms related to jet lag?
Jet lag occurs when travelers suffer from disrupted circadian rhythms. When you pass through different time zones, your body's clock will be different from your wristwatch. For example, if you fly in an airplane from California to New York, you "lose" 3 hours of time. So when you wake up at 7:00 a.m., your body still thinks it's 4:00 a.m., making you feel groggy and disoriented. Your body's clock will eventually reset itself, but this often takes a few days.

In our case, to us it will be 9:00 PM...exactly bed time when we kickoff, if I'm going to get 8 hours sleep....with the schedule we are on. And 12 hours after our normal practice on the recent Sunday.
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Still think they should go out there and play it. No sense cancelling now.
 

hello-world said:
Going back to the original topic though. OSU looked really bad, and I don't think it's unreasonable to expect Fleck to be 3-0 heading into conference play.
If we struggle with this OSU team then I will question whether Fleck sufficiently prepared this team in his first season.
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If we don't blow them out Fleck didn't have them prepared.

If we blow them out, it was because Claeys left PJ with a full cupboard.
 

In which thread should I look for the crafty analysis of the CSU vs OSU game?
 

60's Guy said:
I don't care if Oregon St "looked bad". 1. They were on the road. 2. It was game 1 versus a good opponent. It was 24-20 at the half. 3. The Gophers are at a documented major handicap traveling to the West Coast to play a football game versus anybody. 4. We typically get up at 5AM...we practiced yesterday in the morning for a night game in four days in week 1 and a way later night game in week 2 on our body clocks...does that really make sense? You want to simulate game conditions as closely as possible. We will be playing Oregon State with 9:00 o'clock kickoff... that's 16 hours after we usually get out of bed. That's 12 hours after we just practiced. Nobody thinks it matters? I hope they are reallllllly horrible and we somehow win but not agreeing with the practice times....at all.
No matter what...we beat Buffalo...I wish I felt the same versus Oregon St and I agree it could be but this is real and just the beginning of our situation...
:How are circadian rhythms related to jet lag?
Jet lag occurs when travelers suffer from disrupted circadian rhythms. When you pass through different time zones, your body's clock will be different from your wristwatch. For example, if you fly in an airplane from California to New York, you "lose" 3 hours of time. So when you wake up at 7:00 a.m., your body still thinks it's 4:00 a.m., making you feel groggy and disoriented. Your body's clock will eventually reset itself, but this often takes a few days.

In our case, to us it will be 9:00 PM...exactly bed time when we kickoff, if I'm going to get 8 hours sleep....with the schedule we are on. And 12 hours after our normal practice on the recent Sunday.
Click to expand...

Ah, the time-honored 9:00 bedtime for college students. Right after they eat a bowl of bran and watch a half hour of Lawrence Welk.
 


The interceptions killed OSU ( 3 ) One going for a TD. CSU was the better team. By that much of a margin? I don't think so. I think the Gophers will win, but it won't be a blowout.
 

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