Carr- Foot Injury

No, all I am saying is it's not the injuries that have them where they are right now. It is playing bad in winnable games.

It's fine if he wants to spin this all he wants. The fact of the matter is, his teams throughout his tenure has been a Big Ten doormat. His road record is horrendous as well. He really doesn't have anything to hang his hat on except "bad luck" "injuries" "things out of his control". :rolleyes:
His B10 finishes......7th.....10th....13th....4th.....11th...7th ...12th....currently 11th........All the excuses in the world doesn't shine that up.
 

I just don't see making the tourney as the end all litmus test, I prefer to use performance during the season as a better judge, sure making the tourney is an indicator of how the season went but not completely. Pitino has failed on so many levels this year even if he makes the tourney. I'm starting to think of him like I did Monson, defense is a something you hope is good enough to get you by. That will never win the B1G title though.
Like I said, I don't think he is 100% safe even if he makes it. Odds are in his favor though.
 

Let's not start playing the "injury card" please.
If Carr actually has a foot injury that limits his movement and quickness, it is a fact not an excuse. That Gabe has a broken bone in his hand is fact. That Robbins is hobbling on the floor is an obvious fact.

So unless Pitino is making this stuff up for cover, he's not making excuses. Everyone knows we don't have starter-calibre guys sitting on the bench.
 

If Carr actually has a foot injury that limits his movement and quickness, it is a fact not an excuse. That Gabe has a broken bone in his hand is fact. That Robbins is hobbling on the floor is an obvious fact.

So unless Pitino is making this stuff up for cover, he's not making excuses. Everyone knows we don't have starter-calibre guys sitting on the bench.

It appears you may have misunderstood my point, so allow me to elucidate -

Every team has injuries, some more than others obviously, so therefore using injuries as an excuses as a reason for a bad record/losses is a non-logical argument.

It's a coach's job to have competent back ups to fill in; good/great coaches have a next up mentality - not having that mentality is simply another excuse.

it seems that most in this thread agree with my take and any good coaches/employers I've ever had, basically had that attitude ,however, you are certainly entitled to your opinion - Rick P, New Rochelle, NY.
 



Should we have a better plan to absorb injuries? Certainly
Should we have a better plan to prevent certain injuries? Yes, we should.
Therefore the injuries are not excuses. They are reality. Personnel losses have occurred every year for Pitino.
By demonstrating your program has not figured this out in 8 (eight) years is why you should be fired! Not because you are making "injury excuses". You don't have a plan to compensate...he can point to circumstances for the majority of all the poor finishes. He still has done no planning to insure
the results are different this year or any previous years. It has happened every year...He plays no bench. Mutaf and Freeman could have been next man up IF they had been getting consistent minutes from the beginning... including beginning last year for Freeman. Gee, we got no backups....gimmee a break....you don't develop them. Just a few minutes a night every night would have made a world of a difference
in talking about next man up. Can't expect somebody to step up who has been told by his minutes you don't think he's good enough to even see the floor.
 
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If Carr actually has a foot injury that limits his movement and quickness, it is a fact not an excuse. That Gabe has a broken bone in his hand is fact. That Robbins is hobbling on the floor is an obvious fact.

So unless Pitino is making this stuff up for cover, he's not making excuses. Everyone knows we don't have starter-calibre guys sitting on the bench.

No....but why the hell is he rolling out injured guys? Why is Robbins playing starter type minutes?

We see Robbins hobbling around. He shouldn't be out there....possibly worsening his ankle. Is Freeman (A PITINO RECRUIT) so bad that he is worse than and an injured Robbins??? Is he so much worse that it's worth risking a more significant injury to a guy that is probably a key part of next year's team?

Pitino has zero idea what he is doing. Can him and let someone pick up the pieces.
 




I read multiple times from from multiple people all fall about how finally Pitino had depth.

You are a fool if you think those claims prove you right.
 


We have yet to lose a game due to injuries.
 

All he said was it's the wrong time of the year for injuries! Is he wrong? Would have been alot better to have injuries when we were going through kansas city, north Dakota, and not the big ten schedule when we have to win games. Pitino's not wrong with what hes saying and it's not even an excuse, its fact, but people are going to turn this into a Pitino bashing thread like every other thread.
 



Yes injuries are part of the season. Having a starter out and having 3 others hurt is tough to deal with. Everyone on here is saying that everyone deals with this. Are the teams that are dealing with this winning? People make it sound like having all these injuries are no big deal and other teams are just dealing with it and winning every game they're playing. Yes you have to deal with it and it doesnt mean you cant win, but there arent teams out there that have all these injuries that are rolling through their schedule like nothing happened. With that being said, we are banged up, but with the teams on the schedule left we can win those games regardless. Next man up!
 

After Gabe's injury the pregame radios guy asked Pitino about depth and Pitino said we used to have depth until Muhaf entered portal, Omersa left the program, and Gabe got hurt. So there you have it, two depth guys who Pitino did not play. Must have been to protect our depth.
 

After Gabe's injury the pregame radios guy asked Pitino about depth and Pitino said we used to have depth until Muhaf entered portal, Omersa left the program, and Gabe got hurt. So there you have it, two depth guys who Pitino did not play. Must have been to protect our depth.
Well, he did play Omersa. You are crazy to think he wouldn't of played a lot of Omersa instead of Freeman with the Robbins injury.
 

Not completely true! It may suck but he has established some level of consistency. We're flirting with the bottom four the fifth time in 8 years!
Lol true, kind of my point but the wrong kind of consistency
 

Should we have a better plan to absorb injuries? Certainly
Should we have a better plan to prevent certain injuries? Yes, we should.
Therefore the injuries are not excuses. They are reality. Personnel losses have occurred every year for Pitino.
By demonstrating your program has not figured this out in 8 (eight) years is why you should be fired! Not because you are making "injury excuses". You don't have a plan to compensate...he can point to circumstances for the majority of all the poor finishes. He still has done no planning to insure
the results are different this year or any previous years. It has happened every year...He plays no bench. Mutaf and Freeman could have been next man up IF they had been getting consistent minutes from the beginning... including beginning last year for Freeman. Gee, we got no backups....gimmee a break....you don't develop them. Just a few minutes a night every night would have made a world of a difference
in talking about next man up. Can't expect somebody to step up who has been told by his minutes you don't think he's good enough to even see the floor.
I can agree with Freeman but not Mutaf. Had Gatch not completely fallen off the face of the earth in the second half of the season (after Mutaf's decision to transfer) there wouldn't have been a place for him to even get minutes.
 

Who's job on the staff is it to help prevent injuries and how long has that person been on the team?
 

After Gabe's injury the pregame radios guy asked Pitino about depth and Pitino said we used to have depth until Muhaf entered portal, Omersa left the program, and Gabe got hurt. So there you have it, two depth guys who Pitino did not play. Must have been to protect our depth.

Developing depth by giving players snaps/time in games is something most coaches do poorly IMO at the collegiate level; of course this season was a bit of an outlier however dur to Covid and how it affected practice, however, I have never seen Pitino do so in prior seasons either.

The most egregious example of it was Brew and the debacle with Weber; he never played Grey no matter how far up or down we were and I would be yelling at the TV in the fourth quarter for him to be played - Clem played Hosea more SMH. It was especially important for him to get live snaps due to his injury in HS.
 

Developing depth by giving players snaps/time in games is something most coaches do poorly IMO at the collegiate level; of course this season was a bit of an outlier however dur to Covid and how it affected practice, however, I have never seen Pitino do so in prior seasons either.

The most egregious example of it was Brew and the debacle with Weber; he never played Grey no matter how far up or down we were and I would be yelling at the TV in the fourth quarter for him to be played - Clem played Hosea more SMH. It was especially important for him to get live snaps due to his injury in HS.
I think in basketball NET rankings are playing an effect here. If a team is up 10 and there are 2 minutes before a TV timeout you just keep your starter in knowing a timeout is coming instead of subbing and risking your efficiencies drop if the opponent cuts it to 6.

Same situation late in games if you're up by a decent amount. Starters stay in so you can win by double digits.

It's sad but I think it plays at least a minor role.
 

Developing depth by giving players snaps/time in games is something most coaches do poorly IMO at the collegiate level; of course this season was a bit of an outlier however dur to Covid and how it affected practice, however, I have never seen Pitino do so in prior seasons either.

The most egregious example of it was Brew and the debacle with Weber; he never played Grey no matter how far up or down we were and I would be yelling at the TV in the fourth quarter for him to be played - Clem played Hosea more SMH. It was especially important for him to get live snaps due to his injury in HS.
Such a great line I had to look up the details. Hosea got in to 61 games and averaged 2.5 minutes.
 

back to what I said earlier -

Yes, the injuries are a fact. acknowledge it - then move on.

I don't want to hear the coach go on and on and on and on about injuries.

Tell me what you are going to do about it. Rotation adjustments - changes in scheme - adjustments on defense and offense.

talk about the guys who are on the court as opposed to the guys who are not playing.
 

All he said was it's the wrong time of the year for injuries! Is he wrong? Would have been alot better to have injuries when we were going through kansas city, north Dakota, and not the big ten schedule when we have to win games. Pitino's not wrong with what hes saying and it's not even an excuse, its fact, but people are going to turn this into a Pitino bashing thread like every other thread.
Is he wrong? I'd say yes. They were healthy during the most difficult stretch of the season, the first 8 conference games. And with a little luck, Robbins and Gabe will be back to something close to 100% by the time the NCAA tournament starts.

In the meantime, we have yet to lose a game clearly due to injuries. And now, we have four very winnable games, even a bit short-handed. Go get it done.
 

Should we have a better plan to absorb injuries? Certainly
Should we have a better plan to prevent certain injuries? Yes, we should.
Therefore the injuries are not excuses. They are reality. Personnel losses have occurred every year for Pitino.
By demonstrating your program has not figured this out in 8 (eight) years is why you should be fired! Not because you are making "injury excuses". You don't have a plan to compensate...he can point to circumstances for the majority of all the poor finishes. He still has done no planning to insure
the results are different this year or any previous years.

Plans for preventing injuries? What does that entail? Are we blaming coaching for players getting injured now?

Injuries/personnel losses have not really been a problem this year, as of right now. Omersa was the 7th or 8th man, and would be maybe even farther down the bench than that now, with the additional minutes that Jamal Mashburn and Tre Williams have been getting lately. Mutaf was a freshman who didn't play much. Being without them likely hasn't had a major negative impact on the results so far this season. Being without Gabe may have made a difference in the Indiana game. He's one of our best defenders, and I think Indiana shot over 60% from the field in the second half. I'm not gonna say we certainly would have won with him, but that's probably the one game so far this season that you can somewhat reasonably argue that having an injured player out cost us a win.

If Carr and Robbins (and maybe Gabe too) are fine and play these last few games and we lose them and miss the tournament, I don't think you're going to see very many people clamoring to have Pitino back for another year, and calling this season a wash because we might have lost one game due to an injury. It feels like a lot of the posts in this thread are viciously attacking a strawman argument that possibly being without Robbins, Carr, and/or Gabe for a couple games in the future is going to be cited as an argument for why we lost six games in the past, and thus Pitino should get another do-over next year.

It's possible to be displeased with the performance of the team the past few weeks when they were full strength or close to it, as well as how they were routinely getting blown out on the road before that, and also acknowledge that possibly missing arguably the 3 best players on the team for the next few games could be a tough obstacle to overcome. What does our lineup look like without them?

1 - Mashburn
2 - Williams
3 - Gach
4 - Johnson
5 - Curry

That gives you Ihnen, Freeman, and Mitchell off the bench for the post spots, and probably Hunt Conroy as your only reserve guard. At that point you're literally down 5 scholarship players from the start of the season, and you're just kind of low on dudes to throw out on the court. Hopefully that's enough to beat Nebraska and Northwestern, probably not enough to beat Rutgers. Having to play 3 games like that doesn't affect my impression of the season too much. Had we played half the season with such a tattered roster, and ended up with the same record we have now, I would have more sympathy. It probably wouldn't lessen the outrage about Pitino too much though, especially for those who were ready to fire him when we actually did play half the season with 3 starters missing.

It has happened every year...He plays no bench. Mutaf and Freeman could have been next man up IF they had been getting consistent minutes from the beginning... including beginning last year for Freeman. Gee, we got no backups....gimmee a break....you don't develop them. Just a few minutes a night every night would have made a world of a difference
in talking about next man up. Can't expect somebody to step up who has been told by his minutes you don't think he's good enough to even see the floor.

I'd guess that getting the three newcomers in our starting lineup better acclimated to playing together during the 20 days and 5 games between the season opener and the conference opener against Illinois was deemed more important than finding 5 minutes per game each for Freeman, Mutaf, and Mitchell to get broken in. And actually they did all get at least 4 minutes each in our two 30 point wins against Green Bay and Kansas City, with the exception of Mutaf not playing against Green Bay, as I think he was injured for that game.

But I remember underwhelming reviews of Robbins early on, just like with Carr in his first few games, and he obviously got better as games went on. I think it makes sense to dedicate minutes to developing bigger contributors like Johnson and Robbins than making certain you find time for Freeman and Mitchell.
 

I read multiple times from from multiple people all fall about how finally Pitino had depth.
I suppose your concerns about depth before the season make sense given how certain you were that Both Gach would not get eligible, and that somehow, someway, it would be Pitino's fault.
 

It appears you may have misunderstood my point, so allow me to elucidate -

Every team has injuries, some more than others obviously, so therefore using injuries as an excuses as a reason for a bad record/losses is a non-logical argument.

It's a coach's job to have competent back ups to fill in; good/great coaches have a next up mentality - not having that mentality is simply another excuse.

it seems that most in this thread agree with my take and any good coaches/employers I've ever had, basically had that attitude ,however, you are certainly entitled to your opinion - Rick P, New Rochelle, NY.
Yes, it is a coach's job to have good back ups. It is a little silly to complain about Pitino's failures in that respect at the end of February. We have known for quite a while who is on the bench and we have seen enough to know their abilities.

Perhaps you are under the impression Pitino called the national networks and had a news conference to announce Carr's injury and to get himself on record as not at blame for a pathetic two months of basketball. More likely he was responding locally to a question about the health of the team going into the Northwestern game.

If Carr in fact has a foot injury that is just that -- a fact, not an excuse.
 

All he said was it's the wrong time of the year for injuries! Is he wrong? Would have been alot better to have injuries when we were going through kansas city, north Dakota, and not the big ten schedule when we have to win games. Pitino's not wrong with what hes saying and it's not even an excuse, its fact, but people are going to turn this into a Pitino bashing thread like every other thread.
No one needs this to criticize Pitino. His eight-year record speaks for itself. It is not good enough to keep the job.
 

Yes, it is a coach's job to have good back ups. It is a little silly to complain about Pitino's failures in that respect at the end of February. We have known for quite a while who is on the bench and we have seen enough to know their abilities.

Perhaps you are under the impression Pitino called the national networks and had a news conference to announce Carr's injury and to get himself on record as not at blame for a pathetic two months of basketball. More likely he was responding locally to a question about the health of the team going into the Northwestern game.

If Carr in fact has a foot injury that is just that -- a fact, not an excuse.

NIce post Jack - way to stick up for the old man(y)(y)(y)(y)(y)(y)
 

There are teams that have not lost any minutes to ankle injuries in five plus years.
Yes, certain injuries are preventable.

All the people who say Freeman can’t play,
don’t see what I see.
All the people who thought Ihnen didn’t need to play until Mom showed up last year. All the people who think he’s playing any where near his potential this year...don’t seem to understand it is coaching that has failed him.
Not Ihnen who has failed.
How much help is Carr getting? Have we taught him how to burn the double teams?
Does he drag those guys out to half court so they can’t help and recover? Do we have a plan? Sure, a surprise 2 months ago ... fine but no solution in dang near March over the course of a game?? There are offensive antidotes for every defense.
A million ways to get so much more production from the guys we recruited.
 




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