Can someone smarter than me explain what our identity is or what strengths we have?

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El Amin Fan

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We are about 1/3 the way through the season. We don't defend, we don't hustle, we don't have an offense, we don't create turnovers, we don't rebound well, we don't have a "style" of play that I can tell. A year ago at this time we seemingly played hard, we fought, we rotated the ball. It's not like we have a ball hog like The Hump stealing all the shots. We just have a collection of below average BT players who really aren't playing as a team and are kind of running through the motions 40 minutes a game for 9 games.
 






Very young,
Trying to find an identy.
Dawson used to playing with a more experienced squad.
Battle not healthy.
And otherwise... freshmen.
This is year two. Watched the second half.
Was often horrified. But also saw flashes of what is to come.
What did you expect?
 

I never get caught up in such conjecture,
But I'm seriously excited about the future of this team!
Chuck those freshmen out there,
Going to be a terrific team in three years!
With Christie and the Den man!
 

I got nothing. This team is not particularly talented, undisciplined and poorly coached. I'd like to say the future is bright or at least hopeful, but I'd be lying. This appears to have been a costly mistake by Mark Coyle/his superiors.
 

Streven said:
Very young,
Trying to find an identy.
Dawson used to playing with a more experienced squad.
Battle not healthy.
And otherwise... freshmen.
This is year two. Watched the second half.
Was often horrified. But also saw flashes of what is to come.
What did you expect?
Click to expand...
Through all the negatives of the game(s), you make a very good point. There is a lot of talent, but so many times I see guys tripping/stumbling/fall down which is part nervous/comfortable, experience in just the flow of the game - or overthinking as an 18 year old kid.

Another thing, it seems all the bounces go the other teams' way. Most of that is being in the right place at the right time, which comes with experience and comfort at this level. Purdue game, one defensive set, played perfectly, defended very well, blocked the shot or had a live rebound and it landed on Garcia who was on his back out of bounds. Ball back to Purdue for probably a 3. Did everything well, just had bad luck. They seem to get a lot of that sort of thing. It will take time for those things to go away partially, but to also overcome them. They will find flow sometime, just don't know when. Michigan had flow tonight. They are not a more talented team, just more comfortable.

I'm still on the Ben bandwagon. Good things to come, just very frustrated tonight. But I think I have good golf shoes.............
 



El Amin Fan said:
We are about 1/3 the way through the season. We don't defend, we don't hustle, we don't have an offense, we don't create turnovers, we don't rebound well, we don't have a "style" of play that I can tell. A year ago at this time we seemingly played hard, we fought, we rotated the ball. It's not like we have a ball hog like The Hump stealing all the shots. We just have a collection of below average BT players who really aren't playing as a team and are kind of running through the motions 40 minutes a game for 9 games.
Click to expand...
Battle is doing a bit of a Hump impression.
 

BTChamp said:
Through all the negatives of the game(s), you make a very good point. There is a lot of talent, but so many times I see guys tripping/stumbling/fall down which is part nervous/comfortable, experience in just the flow of the game - or overthinking as an 18 year old kid.

Another thing, it seems all the bounces go the other teams' way. Most of that is being in the right place at the right time, which comes with experience and comfort at this level. Purdue game, one defensive set, played perfectly, defended very well, blocked the shot or had a live rebound and it landed on Garcia who was on his back out of bounds. Ball back to Purdue for probably a 3. Did everything well, just had bad luck. They seem to get a lot of that sort of thing. It will take time for those things to go away partially, but to also overcome them. They will find flow sometime, just don't know when. Michigan had flow tonight. They are not a more talented team, just more comfortable.

I'm still on the Ben bandwagon. Good things to come, just very frustrated tonight. But I think I have good golf shoes.............
Click to expand...
When all the bounces are going the wrong way you either are slow or your effort is poor.
 

From my perspective,
Gophers look very sloppy, on all accounts.
That being noted,
I have never been so excited for the future.
What did you expect?
 

bga1 said:
When all the bounces are going the wrong way you either are slow or your effort is poor.
Click to expand...
Negative. Confused effort is still effort. Speed doesn't automatically put you in the right place at the right time. They just don't know where to be and how the other players are moving. Could be coaching, could be experience. Either way, the players themselves are not the bulk of the problem. It is how to make them work cohesively.
 



Our lack of identity is extremely concerning.

We're young, we make mistakes, I was willing to live with that and I expected it.

It's concerning to me that our players don't even really seem to know how to play. Thompson has no idea what he is doing. He is a 7 footer who is decently mobile and he floats around the perimeter, doesn't hedge PNRs, There could be a useful player in that mold (maybe not a good one), but he doesn't do anything to help himself.

We are also forced to play two FR at the wing positions who are so forced into playing that we actually look like we have more structure when Samuels is playing the 2 - a guy who can't really shoot, can't get by anyone, is out of shape, and can't play defense. He at least knows a bit about spacing.

I know I'm rambling here but this is exactly why Ben should have gotten heat for not bringing in another wing. It's not even about winning more games, it's about making Carrington and Henley earn minutes - i'd rather have a FR play 17 EARNED minutes per game than 30 given minutes.

A ton of people mocked me when I said I would have offered all the best MIAC wings a scholarship offer and I stand by it. You can't tell me an All MIAC player couldn't get productive minutes at the 2 or 3 for us.
 

I was at least hoping this season, based on last year, we would see a commitment to defense and taking care of the ball. We do neither. Memory serves those two things are primary reasons Pitino was fired, yet here we are.
 

Streven said:
Very young,
Trying to find an identy.
Dawson used to playing with a more experienced squad.
Battle not healthy.
And otherwise... freshmen.
This is year two. Watched the second half.
Was often horrified. But also saw flashes of what is to come.
What did you expect?
Click to expand...
More effort is what I expected especially on defense.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Our lack of identity is extremely concerning.

We're young, we make mistakes, I was willing to live with that and I expected it.

It's concerning to me that our players don't even really seem to know how to play. Thompson has no idea what he is doing. He is a 7 footer who is decently mobile and he floats around the perimeter, doesn't hedge PNRs, There could be a useful player in that mold (maybe not a good one), but he doesn't do anything to help himself.

We are also forced to play two FR at the wing positions who are so forced into playing that we actually look like we have more structure when Samuels is playing the 2 - a guy who can't really shoot, can't get by anyone, is out of shape, and can't play defense. He at least knows a bit about spacing.

I know I'm rambling here but this is exactly why Ben should have gotten heat for not bringing in another wing. It's not even about winning more games, it's about making Carrington and Henley earn minutes - i'd rather have a FR play 17 EARNED minutes per game than 30 given minutes.

A ton of people mocked me when I said I would have offered all the best MIAC wings a scholarship offer and I stand by it. You can't tell me an All MIAC player couldn't get productive minutes at the 2 or 3 for us.
Click to expand...
Good Post!!!

Since you brought up TT I'm going to mention Garcia. He was a 5 star coming out of high school. He is no longer a 5, heck at this point I'm not sure he is a 3. Maybe it is that he really hasn't played much in the past year-year and a half. I would say at this point Payne plays before Garcia. He has been terrible just terrible.

All I could stomach last night was the first 10 minutes. Offensively they have zero offense. 5 guys standing around the arc watching the guy with the ball dribble. Dribble up to the point where he gets stuck then tries to pass to a teammate.

Zero cutting, none!!! Zero screening, none!!! This team right now is brutal at best. I mentioned this before, it looks as though Johnson and his staff can recruit, unfortunately at this point they can't coach or they just don't have a model they can install for the team to create shots.
 

El Amin Fan said:
We are about 1/3 the way through the season. We don't defend, we don't hustle, we don't have an offense, we don't create turnovers, we don't rebound well, we don't have a "style" of play that I can tell. A year ago at this time we seemingly played hard, we fought, we rotated the ball. It's not like we have a ball hog like The Hump stealing all the shots. We just have a collection of below average BT players who really aren't playing as a team and are kind of running through the motions 40 minutes a game for 9 games.
Click to expand...
This is the worst Gopher team I've seen in my entire life. How did these players get division 1 scholarships let alone Big Ten scholarships?
 

Well we seem to get down huge and the opponent pulls starters around 3-5 minutes then Ben puts the press on against the scrubs and makes the score not look as bad as it really was.
 

They have done a good job of beating up on the other team's scrubs at the ends of games making the final scores look closer than they really were. Does that count? LOL
 

Vegwards said:
This is the worst Gopher team I've seen in my entire life. How did these players get division 1 scholarships let alone Big Ten scholarships?
Click to expand...
How old are you? We had some horrible teams post scandals in the 80’s and late 90’s. I’m not willing to go there yet.
 


Bob_Loblaw said:
Our lack of identity is extremely concerning.

We're young, we make mistakes, I was willing to live with that and I expected it.

It's concerning to me that our players don't even really seem to know how to play. Thompson has no idea what he is doing. He is a 7 footer who is decently mobile and he floats around the perimeter, doesn't hedge PNRs, There could be a useful player in that mold (maybe not a good one), but he doesn't do anything to help himself.

We are also forced to play two FR at the wing positions who are so forced into playing that we actually look like we have more structure when Samuels is playing the 2 - a guy who can't really shoot, can't get by anyone, is out of shape, and can't play defense. He at least knows a bit about spacing.

I know I'm rambling here but this is exactly why Ben should have gotten heat for not bringing in another wing. It's not even about winning more games, it's about making Carrington and Henley earn minutes - i'd rather have a FR play 17 EARNED minutes per game than 30 given minutes.

A ton of people mocked me when I said I would have offered all the best MIAC wings a scholarship offer and I stand by it. You can't tell me an All MIAC player couldn't get productive minutes at the 2 or 3 for us.
Click to expand...
They can't but there's hundreds guys whow ere in the portal with D1 experience that could have. We have a Miac caliber wing his name is Will Ramberg. Sure he's a Johnny try hard on defense, but he has no chance on offense in conference play
 

Vegwards said:
This is the worst Gopher team I've seen in my entire life. How did these players get division 1 scholarships let alone Big Ten scholarships?
Click to expand...
I actually really like this roster compared to recent seasons. They are just not being coached to maximize their strengths or hide their weaknesses. Ben is running a system counter intuitive to our current skills.
 

RockChalk said:
Good Post!!!

Since you brought up TT I'm going to mention Garcia. He was a 5 star coming out of high school. He is no longer a 5, heck at this point I'm not sure he is a 3. Maybe it is that he really hasn't played much in the past year-year and a half. I would say at this point Payne plays before Garcia. He has been terrible just terrible.

All I could stomach last night was the first 10 minutes. Offensively they have zero offense. 5 guys standing around the arc watching the guy with the ball dribble. Dribble up to the point where he gets stuck then tries to pass to a teammate.

Zero cutting, none!!! Zero screening, none!!! This team right now is brutal at best. I mentioned this before, it looks as though Johnson and his staff can recruit, unfortunately at this point they can't coach or they just don't have a model they can install for the team to create shots.
Click to expand...
From what I gather most coaches have a offensive identity/philosophy...I'm not sure what BJ's is.
 

GopherBlood666 said:
I actually really like this roster compared to recent seasons. They are just not being coached to maximize their strengths or hide their weaknesses. Ben is running a system counter intuitive to our current skills.
Click to expand...
My issue is that I can’t see any system in place. I also like the players better than many do.
 

Dupreefor3 said:
They can't but there's hundreds guys whow ere in the portal with D1 experience that could have. We have a Miac caliber wing his name is Will Ramberg. Sure he's a Johnny try hard on defense, but he has no chance on offense in conference play
Click to expand...
My whole point wasn't that I preferred a MIAC player to a better player, my point was that I'd have preferred an MIAC player to sitting on a scholarship.

I'm also fine with Ramberg getting minutes. It's not because I think he is good but it's because he does some of the right things. He plays hard (yep, we're at the point where that is a plus), he has somewhat of an idea of spacing on offense, and you occasionally see him battle for rebounds. Again, I'm not saying he is an effective Big 10 basketball player.

As to your comparison between Ramberg and a an all MIAC type SG. You're probably right. I also think guards can translate easier than forwards (less to overcome in terms of athleticism and size). But even if not, I'd take a Ramberg-type SG who could shoot a bit and at least tries on defense.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
My whole point wasn't that I preferred a MIAC player to a better player, my point was that I'd have preferred an MIAC player to sitting on a scholarship.

I'm also fine with Ramberg getting minutes. It's not because I think he is good but it's because he does some of the right things. He plays hard (yep, we're at the point where that is a plus), he has somewhat of an idea of spacing on offense, and you occasionally see him battle for rebounds. Again, I'm not saying he is an effective Big 10 basketball player.

As to your comparison between Ramberg and a an all MIAC type SG. You're probably right. I also think guards can translate easier than forwards (less to overcome in terms of athleticism and size). But even if not, I'd take a Ramberg-type SG who could shoot a bit and at least tries on defense.
Click to expand...
I'll say this as there have been guys from the MIAC who have turned into good D1 and even pro guys. If you can shoot the three you have a chance. Duncan Robinson was playing D3 in New Hampshire before he got to Michigan, he's carved a role out in the NBA. Devean George, famous for Shaq crapping in his shoes, but had a nice Lakers career. Kid who went to Baylor from St Olaf a few years back, cant think of his name though.
 

Streven said:
Very young,
Trying to find an identy.
Dawson used to playing with a more experienced squad.
Battle not healthy.
And otherwise... freshmen.
This is year two. Watched the second half.
Was often horrified. But also saw flashes of what is to come. toughn
What did you expect?
Click to expand...
Offensively they are starting to play much better, they are not bad, Battle, Garcia, and Cooper are pretty good. Add in Ola-Joseph and I feel they have the weapons on that side of the ball to compete.

The problem is on the other side of the ball they are bad. None of the top three play much defense. If you can't get stops how are you going to win. Henley, Carrington, and Payne are freshman, they all have great upside but a ways to go. Ola-Joseph has really played well, way beyond expectations.

I really like Carrington's toughness, hasn't been much of a shooter thus far but he likes to get in and mix it up.
 

RockChalk said:
Zero cutting, none!!! Zero screening, none!!! This team right now is brutal at best. I mentioned this before, it looks as though Johnson and his staff can recruit, unfortunately at this point they can't coach or they just don't have a model they can install for the team to create shots.
Click to expand...
Ben aside, I thought Thorson was an X's and O's genius? I can't believe how inept we look on both ends.
 

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