Can Gophs recruiting stay in top 40? Iowa moving past Gophers...Indiana next?

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John Galt said:
What is there to be negative about? We just had the best ending to a season in like 50 years. And basically everyone is back next year. Our recruiting class is one of the highest ranked in our history. We had the highest GPA in history. And there are no scandals.

Any Gopher fan still seeing gray clouds needs to have their head examined...
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Define scandal.
 

John Galt said:
Fleckster(definition): a person that supports coach Fleck and the football program. They think PJ is a good coach and appreciate the progress he has made with the football program. They may even like him as a person and his personality doesn't grate on them. They think it's ridiculous that he was named Turkey of the Year, and think the football program is on one of the best trajectories it's been on for a while. They are excited about the future, don't feel the need to criticize him at every turn and think he has achieved a lot during his first two years.

I'll gladly be called a "Fleckster" with this definition.
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Your definition is missing, They will jump to defend him against every slight even when one isn't there.

The program is in very good shape right now and is going in the right direction. Things are looking up after the suspension drama season and PJ's first season. I'm looking forward to seeing what will happen this coming season with all that we have returning.
 

Amazes me how bent out of shape people get or for how some it is an all or nothing proposition on a particular topic.

Things are never perfect or a complete disaster. That said any Gopher fan that is not happy with the way the team finished the year is working hard to find things to be negative about.

Those that don't like Fleck and have decided they will never like him have to at least respect the fact that the program appears to be on the right path at the moment with plenty of reason for optimism going forward. Time will tell if Fleck is able to keep it rolling or if he will fail to turn the corner the way so many other coaches before him have at Minnesota.

I see something different in Fleck that makes me think he will succeed where others have failed but in the meantime I enjoy any discussion on here that is actually grounded in reality and not the stupid republican v democrat type arguing where there is only one way to see things.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Amazes me how bent out of shape people get or for how some it is an all or nothing proposition on a particular topic.

Things are never perfect or a complete disaster. That said any Gopher fan that is not happy with the way the team finished the year is working hard to find things to be negative about.

Those that don't like Fleck and have decided they will never like him have to at least respect the fact that the program appears to be on the right path at the moment with plenty of reason for optimism going forward. Time will tell if Fleck is able to keep it rolling or if he will fail to turn the corner the way so many other coaches before him have at Minnesota.

I see something different in Fleck that makes me think he will succeed where others have failed but in the meantime I enjoy any discussion on here that is actually grounded in reality and not the stupid republican v democrat type arguing where there is only one way to see things.
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Well said. I like Fleck and think he will do well here and we are definitely on a good upward trend. I still think it's OK to critically think about the team and where it's headed or think about how high the ceiling is.
 


short ornery norwegian said:
I think this entire thread needs to start using Sensodyne toothpaste - to protect against over-sensitivity.

Seriously, I think both sides have a point.

Yes, there are people on this board who enjoy taking shots at Fleck, whether deserved or not.

and Yes, there are people on this board who are hyper-protective of Fleck, and defend him against any perceived slight - whether deserved or not. Those are the "Flecksters" as I understand the term - the self-proclaimed guardians of Fleck's image. As opposed to the "Claeysites" who defend TC's legacy.

and BTW, I googled "Fleckster." there is someone called Fleckster69 on Youtube. He or she seems to post items related to video games. There appear to be some other people who use Fleckster as a nickname. And yes, googling Fleckster did bring up a picture of the Gopher football coach. so it's an official term, as recognized by Google.
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Hmmm. That raises some interesting imagery.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Amazes me how bent out of shape people get or for how some it is an all or nothing proposition on a particular topic.

Things are never perfect or a complete disaster. That said any Gopher fan that is not happy with the way the team finished the year is working hard to find things to be negative about.

Those that don't like Fleck and have decided they will never like him have to at least respect the fact that the program appears to be on the right path at the moment with plenty of reason for optimism going forward. Time will tell if Fleck is able to keep it rolling or if he will fail to turn the corner the way so many other coaches before him have at Minnesota.

I see something different in Fleck that makes me think he will succeed where others have failed but in the meantime I enjoy any discussion on here that is actually grounded in reality and not the stupid republican v democrat type arguing where there is only one way to see things.
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Ok, I’ll take the bait and challenge anyone to find a regular poster that thinks the season ended poorly. The above is ignoring the entire argument, which involves completely innocent posts being deemed smear campaigns or ultra meta troll efforts. It’s ludicrous. And, PJ has only himself to blame for some of the criticism directed his way.

Look, nobody is perfect. Most of us have (or have had) significant others that were initially perfect 10s in the dating phase, then evolved into people with “quirks” over the months and years and we discovered they weren’t perfect but we loved them anyway. PJ isn’t perfect either but overall he’s moving the program in the right direction as of 2018/2019 and we learn to take the quirks with all the good qualities.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Ok, I’ll take the bait and challenge anyone to find a regular poster that thinks the season ended poorly. The above is ignoring the entire argument, which involves completely innocent posts being deemed smear campaigns or ultra meta troll efforts. It’s ludicrous. And, PJ has only himself to blame for some of the criticism directed his way.

Look, nobody is perfect. Most of us have (or have had) significant others that were initially perfect 10s in the dating phase, then evolved into people with “quirks” over the months and years and we discovered they weren’t perfect but we loved them anyway. PJ isn’t perfect either but overall he’s moving the program in the right direction as of 2018/2019 and we learn to take the quirks with all the good qualities.
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We are actual on basically the same page I think. I will say that while I agree Fleck might have brought some of the criticism on himself a lot of it stems from the fact that he sounds more like Brew than Kill when he talks. There were many that latched onto that when Fleck was hired and it colored their view on him right off the bat.

I enjoy this site most of the time but it is always a shame when thread after thread gets hijacked by the petty bickering back and forth from sides that are determined to be right and refuse to see anything but their point of view (both pro and anti Fleck). The really annoying part is that it is almost always the same argument and many of the times it involves the exact same people.

Reading comprehension goes out the window and people latch onto a word or phrase that they feel supports their argument against against someone else and the thread just deteriorates to something that doesn't even resemble the topic that started it.

Basically the way this thread has :)
 

MNVCGUY said:
We are actual on basically the same page I think. I will say that while I agree Fleck might have brought some of the criticism on himself a lot of it stems from the fact that he sounds more like Brew than Kill when he talks. There were many that latched onto that when Fleck was hired and it colored their view on him right off the bat.

I enjoy this site most of the time but it is always a shame when thread after thread gets hijacked by the petty bickering back and forth from sides that are determined to be right and refuse to see anything but their point of view (both pro and anti Fleck). The really annoying part is that it is almost always the same argument and many of the times it involves the exact same people.

Reading comprehension goes out the window and people latch onto a word or phrase that they feel supports their argument against against someone else and the thread just deteriorates to something that doesn't even resemble the topic that started it.

Basically the way this thread has :)
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I forget the term, but I recall a Norwegian businessman who talked about what he called something like "the Norwegian chill" where Scandinavian culture takes a dim view of loud boisterous folks who even get close to tooting their own horn (even if they're not).

He talked a lot about how he came to the US and liked that he wasn't told to take it down a notch when he talked up his business ventures or even congratulated folks at his company.

I think there is some of that in Minnesota still, and it's unfortunate.

PJ has taken it down a notch, I preferred when I wanted to go out and get in a fight after he talked ;)
 



MNVCGUY said:
We are actual on basically the same page I think. I will say that while I agree Fleck might have brought some of the criticism on himself a lot of it stems from the fact that he sounds more like Brew than Kill when he talks. There were many that latched onto that when Fleck was hired and it colored their view on him right off the bat.

I enjoy this site most of the time but it is always a shame when thread after thread gets hijacked by the petty bickering back and forth from sides that are determined to be right and refuse to see anything but their point of view (both pro and anti Fleck). The really annoying part is that it is almost always the same argument and many of the times it involves the exact same people.

Reading comprehension goes out the window and people latch onto a word or phrase that they feel supports their argument against against someone else and the thread just deteriorates to something that doesn't even resemble the topic that started it.

Basically the way this thread has :)
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Well, the hijacker on this thread did so because he thinks the topic itself is a negative shot at Fleck...so...
 

PMWinSTP said:
Okla St just jumped over the Gophs on 247. If my math is correct, Ind has 4 scholarships to give and Ill has 7 according to 247. Can't figure out where NW stands with scholarships...
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Purely hypothetical, "for fun" question: would you rather us soundly beat our BIG peer level programs in national recruiting, but be in the upper 40's lower 50's, or be in the upper 30's lower 40's but be ranked a few behind peer level programs?

For me personally, I'd rather go with the latter and then hope we can better develop our recruits.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
I forget the term, but I recall a Norwegian businessman who talked about what he called something like "the Norwegian chill" where Scandinavian culture takes a dim view of loud boisterous folks who even get close to tooting their own horn (even if they're not).

He talked a lot about how he came to the US and liked that he wasn't told to take it down a notch when he talked up his business ventures or even congratulated folks at his company.

I think there is some of that in Minnesota still, and it's unfortunate.

PJ has taken it down a notch, I preferred when I wanted to go out and get in a fight after he talked ;)
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Is it possible that Norwegian businessman was just a pompous blowhard?
 

Gophers_4life said:
Purely hypothetical, "for fun" question: would you rather us soundly beat our BIG peer level programs in national recruiting, but be in the upper 40's lower 50's, or be in the upper 30's lower 40's but be ranked a few behind peer level programs?

For me personally, I'd rather go with the latter and then hope we can better develop our recruits.
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Honestly there would be such little difference in those classes that I guess I would lean towards out recruiting (on paper) our fellow BIG schools because that would hopefully improve our chances of winning the conference.

In the big picture though, finishing 39th in recruiting vs. 49th in recruiting really isn't a significant difference from a player standpoint.
 



Gophers_4life said:
Purely hypothetical, "for fun" question: would you rather us soundly beat our BIG peer level programs in national recruiting, but be in the upper 40's lower 50's, or be in the upper 30's lower 40's but be ranked a few behind peer level programs?

For me personally, I'd rather go with the latter and then hope we can better develop our recruits.
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There is a lot of wild gesticulating over the tenth, hundredths and even thousandth places in the composites between years, coaches, eras by the 247 guys and stats wonks but as can be abundantly found there is a lot of slop and error in those numbers and YMMV on whether coaches can pull out all that talent. Some programs do better than others. IMO if PJ can demonstrate he can win here the bigger recruits will come and the top 25 classes will come over time which increases our odds of success.
 

Wins outrank everything else. I truly don't care where the Gophers recruiting class is ranked. I care about winning games. if WI or IA has a higher-ranked recruiting class, but the Gophers beat WI or IA, the Gophers get a trophy. There is no trophy (that I am aware of) for having the higher-ranked recruiting class.

Just bring in kids who can play, and fit the system. If some self-styled recruiting "expert" says the Gophers' recruits have fewer stars or dots than the IA or WI recruits, so what? The final score of the game is what matters.
 

Gophers_4life said:
Purely hypothetical, "for fun" question: would you rather us soundly beat our BIG peer level programs in national recruiting, but be in the upper 40's lower 50's, or be in the upper 30's lower 40's but be ranked a few behind peer level programs?

For me personally, I'd rather go with the latter and then hope we can better develop our recruits.
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I've said from the day Fleck became coach, if he can have classes in the 35-45 range, that's all the talent needed to elevate the program to the next level of winning. NW, Illinois, and Indiana all have a chance to pass Gophs at this point.
 

MNVCGUY said:
In the big picture though, <b>finishing 39th in recruiting vs. 49th in recruiting really isn't a significant difference </b>from a player standpoint.
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This ^^^^


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I'd have to say recruiting 49th isn't really that different than 79th.
 

Face The Facts said:
I'd have to say recruiting 49th isn't really that different than 79th.
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I’ve been saying on here for years that 25-50 or so doesn’t matter - between non-qualifiers, busts, etc. when comparing (mostly) 3-star teams things like fit, coaching, need, qualifying, complimentary players, etc. matter more. Based on the feedback I would get for that view I didn’t think anyone was agreeing or listening. However, with our current ratings falling short of initial expectations I am reading other’s thoughts on here now and realize folks must have been listening all along.


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Spoofin said:
I’ve been saying on here for years that 25-50 or so doesn’t matter - between non-qualifiers, busts, etc. when comparing (mostly) 3-star teams things like fit, coaching, need, qualifying, complimentary players, etc. matter more. Based on the feedback I would get for that view I didn’t think anyone was agreeing or listening. However, with our current ratings falling short of initial expectations I am reading other’s thoughts on here now and realize folks must have been listening all along.


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I had done some poking around and made a spreadsheet I’ll try to dig out, but our 10th highest recruit this year would have been something like 8th last year, 3rd, 2nd, 1st, 4th the four years before that. Any given highly ranked recruit can not work out... but if you’re getting higher volume of more highly rated recruits that correlates pretty strongly with success.
 

PoockItInfor6 said:
I had done some poking around and made a spreadsheet I’ll try to dig out, but our 10th highest recruit this year would have been something like 8th last year, 3rd, 2nd, 1st, 4th the four years before that. Any given highly ranked recruit can not work out... but if you’re getting higher volume of more highly rated recruits that correlates pretty strongly with success.
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Please don’t interpret my post as a bash on recent recruiting. Watching the games and our recent recruits play makes me believe we are bringing in more talent. I would agree with your spreadsheet on that. I am very happy with the direction of the team and think PJ has us moving in the right direction. I haven’t been this optimistic about the Gophers in a long long time.

My post was all about the obsession some have in a ranking. Things like wanting to consider “fit”, “need”, etc. was not too long ago mocked on here but now when the <b>rankings </b>aren’t improving to where some expected those things are now stated considerations.

I like our class. Excited for 2019.


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Spoofin said:
I’ve been saying on here for years that 25-50 or so doesn’t matter - between non-qualifiers, busts, etc. when comparing (mostly) 3-star teams things like fit, coaching, need, qualifying, complimentary players, etc. matter more. Based on the feedback I would get for that view I didn’t think anyone was agreeing or listening. However, with our current ratings falling short of initial expectations I am reading other’s thoughts on here now and realize folks must have been listening all along.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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And for years you have been wrong. It has been proven time and again on this site and many others.
 

PMWinSTP said:
I've said from the day Fleck became coach, if he can have classes in the 35-45 range, that's all the talent needed to elevate the program to the next level of winning. NW, Illinois, and Indiana all have a chance to pass Gophs at this point.
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What’s that level of winning look like? An average Iowa season?

What do we need to get to the level Wisconsin was getting before their 2018 collapse?
 

Gophers_4life said:
What’s that level of winning look like? An average Iowa season?

What do we need to get to the level Wisconsin was getting before their 2018 collapse?
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After we win 9+ this year, we’ll probably be able to recruit the best in the West... After 3 trips in a row to the B1G Championship game, we’ll likely be able to recruit in the top 15... and after our 8th national championship, I’m guessing too 5 classes for the rest of PJs 40 year career here at Minnesota.
 

Gophers_4life said:
What’s that level of winning look like? An average Iowa season?

What do we need to get to the level Wisconsin was getting before their 2018 collapse?
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Winning conference records with 8-10 regular season wins year in and out; an occasional season a little higher and lower. To me that's the next level of winning. 2018 could have been the first at that level.
 

Gophers_4life said:
What’s that level of winning look like? An average Iowa season?

What do we need to get to the level Wisconsin was getting before their 2018 collapse?
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I know you’re being sarcastic but you’re right - Iowa and Wisconsin have been outliers in terms over outperforming their recruiting rankings over the years, particularly Wisconsin.
 

Recruiting rankings are a great correlator to on-field success, but fall short in 2 important ways:

1. The arbitrary nature of when a team is ranked. We assign a ranking to the Gophers and every other team on national signing day in February, but the rankings would move considerably if we evaluated teams based on who was actually eligible in August, still on the team after year 1, year 2, etc. Our 2017 class was ranked #12 in the B1G and 59th overall on signing day. We lost 2 of our top 4 recruits after year 1 (KHH and Adam Beck), so the ranking would have dropped considerably and wouldn't be accurate after one year's worth of attrition. Every team goes through this, but it impacts teams differently. Brewster probably would have never had a class in the top 30 if you measured who was eligible in August.

2. Transfers aren't accounted for in rankings. OJ Smith and Williamson were key contributors this year. Hopefully Grimes and Dew-Treadway are in the future. Yet there is no way to capture this in the rankings.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
I know you’re being sarcastic but you’re right - Iowa and Wisconsin have been outliers in terms over outperforming their recruiting rankings over the years, particularly Wisconsin.
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You could add NW and MSU to that list as well.
 



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