Brewster or Kiffin

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natotornado

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After hearing Kiffin rip Barkely on the radio yesterday I found myself thinking about how bad our final 2 (approximately) candidates were back when mason was fired. Knowing how bad the Brewster hiring wound up, it could have been potentially worse had Kiffin won out. Thoughts?
 

Kiffin would've probably been here for two years and then jumped ship so it's tough to know how much damage he could've done in that time. I do know he comes off as a huuuuge *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!#nozzle and I don't think I could deal with him at the helm of our program.
 

I live in Knoxville so I'm probably pretty biased but I hated Kiffin when he was at UT and I hate him even more now.

He spent boatloads of money on recruiting while at Tennessee. Tons more than Phil Fulmer (and Fulmer wasn't scraping the bottom of the barrel). That said, Kiffin landed lots of big names, including Bryce Brown the top RB in the country. Now, at USC they just unveiled a $100 million practice facility with iPads at every locker and giant video screens (think 10' or so) as you walk in.

It would have been a great case study to see Kiffin handle a place like Minnesota where there isn't necessarily a huge budget and you don't have much attention. I think it would have come down to X's and O's for him and while I have full faith in Monty Kiffin to run a defense to its potential, I just don't think Lane could have handled a true rebuilding process so it likely would have looked very similar to the Tim Brewster era, perhaps with a an extra win each season because of a more solidified assistant coaching staff that Kiffin would have brought.
 

For a guy who grew up in Minnesota, Kiffin is about as non-Minnesotan in style as one can get and I never really saw him as a good fit for us. Let me make it clear, I thought Brewster was challenged in the same sense. But there seems to be an outright nastiness to Kiffin that really makes him off-putting. I see him somewhat like Holtz, although Holtz has an ability to "get across" with most people. Holtz may be a phony, but he does the "aw shucks" cornpone self-deprecation schtick that buys him both space and time. Kiffin just appears to relish in being a pr*ck. I agree with previous posters who contend that if Kiffin got the job, he would have put together some garish window-dressing, done about as well as Brewster at his best on the field, while all the time sniffing around for a bigger playpen.
 



Kiffen wouldn't have stayed here, so I can't fault Maturi for not hiring him. By the way, Charlie Strong was the other official candidate. He has turned Louisville around pretty well, at least for now.
 

The first thing I thought of when I saw he was throwing Barkley under the bus is this:

So much of the Heisman race is political, and greasing perception. This is even more true for a player that plays out west far from many of the voters. So, you are Kiffen and you have a guy that actually stuck around and most had considered to be a strong contender for the Heisman... and you do THIS????

It just comes across like a coach torpedoing his own player to make himself look better. Not sure if that is reality, but it can come across like that. Not to mention a coach potentially doing damage to his own player's chances at a national award like that.
 

Schnauzer said:
The first thing I thought of when I saw he was throwing Barkley under the bus is this:

So much of the Heisman race is political, and greasing perception. This is even more true for a player that plays out west far from many of the voters. So, you are Kiffen and you have a guy that actually stuck around and most had considered to be a strong contender for the Heisman... and you do THIS????

It just comes across like a coach torpedoing his own player to make himself look better. Not sure if that is reality, but it can come across like that. Not to mention a coach potentially doing damage to his own player's chances at a national award like that.
Click to expand...

I completely agree and had the same reaction. Additionally, it is extremely rare you hear a coach talk negatively about ANY player publicly, let alone a Heisman contender. A couple weeks ago Sid tried to ask Kill a negative question about one of our players on the Sid and Dave Mona show and Kill simply responded "this is not the NFL, we do not publicly discuss negative comments about college kids." Kill gets it. Neither Brew nor Lane have a clue. Go Gophers.
 

tumblr_m8v80zJn3t1rdkmrgo1_400.jpg
 



Brewster and Kiffin, both equally worthless and D-nozzles. This is like debating who is more rotten Republicans or Democrats.
The fact that both were finalist proves that Badger Joe Maturi should never have had the authority
to fire coach Mason in the first place(let's not debate if he should have been fired, my statement is Joel Maturi should not have been allowed to make the decisions). After the debacle of Dan Monson, the hiring of John Harris, the way Maturi handled the contract extentions of coach Mason and Monson. He really should have been booted
After firing coach Mason, Maturi should have had the dignity to resign and let someone else hire the new football coach especially with the opening of TCF. You could always tell Maturi being an old high school coach
that he really wanted to hire his "guy" someone that was more of a salesmen or motivational speaker type.
This is how we ended up with "Basement" Brewster and the set back to the Wacker years. The one honorable thing he did was he seems to have hired a decent football coach his second chance at it, except this time he had someone and the athletic department holding his hand.
Joel did some good but a lot of the bad he did far outweighs any of the good.
 

I know hating on Kiffin is the easy thing to do but that doesn't mean he's a bad coach. I agree that he probably wouldn't have stayed here long had he gotten the job but I think we would have had good success under him. And Charlie Strong is going to be the next coach at Arkansas book it, Louisville had a good run with him but he's gonna be onto bigger and better things in the SEC next year.
 

Kiffin is a jerk. Brewster was in over his head. I would take Brew over Kiffin.
 

gopherdudepart2 said:
Brewster and Kiffin, both equally worthless and D-nozzles. This is like debating who is more rotten Republicans or Democrats.
The fact that both were finalist proves that Badger Joe Maturi should never have had the authority
to fire coach Mason in the first place(let's not debate if he should have been fired, my statement is Joel Maturi should not have been allowed to make the decisions). After the debacle of Dan Monson, the hiring of John Harris, the way Maturi handled the contract extentions of coach Mason and Monson. He really should have been booted
After firing coach Mason, Maturi should have had the dignity to resign and let someone else hire the new football coach especially with the opening of TCF. You could always tell Maturi being an old high school coach
that he really wanted to hire his "guy" someone that was more of a salesmen or motivational speaker type.
This is how we ended up with "Basement" Brewster and the set back to the Wacker years. The one honorable thing he did was he seems to have hired a decent football coach his second chance at it, except this time he had someone and the athletic department holding his hand.
Joel did some good but a lot of the bad he did far outweighs any of the good.
Click to expand...

The revisionist history on Brewster is amazing. He took over a program where the cupboard was bare and went to the same type of bowl games we'd been going to for years in his 2nd/3rd seasons, yet BARELY got a 4th year. I'd love it if people waited until Jerry Kill finished .500 in the Big Ten before claiming he's a better coach.
 



EG#9 said:
The revisionist history on Brewster is amazing. He took over a program where the cupboard was bare and went to the same type of bowl games we'd been going to for years in his 2nd/3rd seasons, yet BARELY got a 4th year. I'd love it if people waited until Jerry Kill finished .500 in the Big Ten before claiming he's a better coach.
Click to expand...

And what a fourth year it was.
 



natotornado said:
I completely agree and had the same reaction. Additionally, it is extremely rare you hear a coach talk negatively about ANY player publicly, let alone a Heisman contender. A couple weeks ago Sid tried to ask Kill a negative question about one of our players on the Sid and Dave Mona show and Kill simply responded "this is not the NFL, we do not publicly discuss negative comments about college kids." Kill gets it. Neither Brew nor Lane have a clue. Go Gophers.
Click to expand...
:rolleyes:
 

Originally Posted by gopherdudepart2 View Post
Brewster and Kiffin, both equally worthless and D-nozzles. This is like debating who is more rotten Republicans or Democrats.
The fact that both were finalist proves that Badger Joe Maturi should never have had the authority
to fire coach Mason in the first place(let's not debate if he should have been fired, my statement is Joel Maturi should not have been allowed to make the decisions). After the debacle of Dan Monson, the hiring of John Harris, the way Maturi handled the contract extentions of coach Mason and Monson. He really should have been booted
After firing coach Mason, Maturi should have had the dignity to resign and let someone else hire the new football coach especially with the opening of TCF. You could always tell Maturi being an old high school coach
that he really wanted to hire his "guy" someone that was more of a salesmen or motivational speaker type.
This is how we ended up with "Basement" Brewster and the set back to the Wacker years. The one honorable thing he did was he seems to have hired a decent football coach his second chance at it, except this time he had someone and the athletic department holding his hand.
Joel did some good but a lot of the bad he did far outweighs any of the good.
The revisionist history on Brewster is amazing. He took over a program where the cupboard was bare and went to the same type of bowl games we'd been going to for years in his 2nd/3rd seasons, yet BARELY got a 4th year. I'd love it if people waited until Jerry Kill finished .500 in the Big Ten before claiming he's a better coach

Gopherdudepart2, that was really a great post that captured the incontinence of of the Maturdi era.

Mason would not have gone 1-11 in 2008 and we all know it. Mason probably would have gone won between five and 7 games in 2007. He had Gordy Shaw, a bunch of good o linemen, and some guys coming back on D.
 

EG#9 said:
The revisionist history on Brewster is amazing. He took over a program where the cupboard was bare and went to the same type of bowl games we'd been going to for years in his 2nd/3rd seasons, yet BARELY got a 4th year. I'd love it if people waited until Jerry Kill finished .500 in the Big Ten before claiming he's a better coach.
Click to expand...

I think the Gophers' poor 2010 season changes people's perception of his tenure as a whole, as well as Brewster as a person, that is, for people who hadn't already made up their minds that they hated him the day he got here. His first season was bad, but so were most other Gopher coaches' first seasons. Brewster's overall record at Minnesota was actually better than Wacker's which is faint praise, but Wacker seems to get this perception of "nice guy, just couldn't get it done," whereas Brew is perceived as a snake oil salesman and a lying, manipulative jerk. Granted I didn't pay as close attention to what the coach was saying off the field back when Brew was here, but I never got the vibe that he was a jerk or a d-bag that other people apparently got.
 

Probably because while Wacker was a failure HERE, his overall resume as a head coach wasn't terrible. Texas State named their field after the guy, and he was successful at NDSU and decent at TCU. Basement Brew had no business being the head coach of a major conference BCS level program. I can easily see an AD looking at Wacker before his hire here and thinking he'd be a good fit as coach. I thought from the first time I heard him speak, that Brew was a mistake at best, and a total train wreck at worst, which he, of course, turned out to be.

As for Kiffin, as bad as Brew was, I'm very glad we didn't hire him. He reeks of sleaze, and as others have mentioned, he likely wouldn't have stayed more than a couple years before pulling a Holtz and moving on. Probably leaving a trail of NCAA sanctions in his wake.
 

oak_street1981 said:
Gopherdudepart2, that was really a great post that captured the incontinence of of the Maturdi era.

Mason would not have gone 1-11 in 2008 and we all know it. Mason probably would have gone won between five and 7 games in 2007. He had Gordy Shaw, a bunch of good o linemen, and some guys coming back on D.
Click to expand...

We just did this a couple of weeks ago and a couple of weeks before that but let's do it again anyway. I never tire of trying to educate the ignorant now matter how long it takes. It is a thankless task but someone has to do it.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In Brewster's first year in 2007 at various times he was forced to play six (6) true freshman and three (3) red shirt freshman who each were in the starting line-up for a minimum of 5 games and as many as 12 games. And 7 of the 9 freshman players who had never before been on a college football field were in the starting line-up at one of the following positions during 2007:

- Quarterback
- Running Back
- Wide Receiver
- Defensive Back

In addition, Brewster played 11 sophomores who each started at least 1 game for the Gophers in 2007. That makes a total of 20 true freshman and inexperienced sophomores who were in the Gophers starting line-up in 2007.

It is particularly interesting to focus on Mason's 2005 recruiting class and its contribution to the 2007 Gopher season.

Only 7 of Mason's players from the previous four recruiting classes started ALL 12 games in 2007:

- Tony Brinkhaus
- Ernie Wheelright
- Dominque Barber
- Todd Meisel
- Eric Decker
- Lee Campbell
- Adam Weber

I tried to find the "bunch of good" offensive linemane that formed the backbone of the team that Mason left to Brewster. But all I could find was:

- Tony Brinkhaus (Sr - 12 games)
- Steve Shidell (Sr - 1 game)
- Matt DeGeest (RS Jr - 7 games)
- Ned Tavale (RS So - 7 games)
- Ryan Ruckdashel (RS So - 2 games)
- Jeff Tow-Arnett (RS So - 1 game)
- DJ Burris (RS Fr - 11 games)
- Dominic Alford (RS Fr - 5 games)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gopher football players who started at least one game during the 2007 season (Brewster's first year when he was given all of three weeks to put together a coaching staff and recruit his first class):

2003 Recruits (out of 27)

- Neel Allen (RS Sr) (3 games)
- Tony Brinkhaus (RS Sr) (12 games)
- Jamal Harris (RS Sr) (8 games)
- Amir Pinnix (RS Sr) (4 games)
- John Shevlin (RS Sr) (9 games)
- Steve Shidell (RS Sr) (1 game)
- Desi Steib (RS Sr) (5 games)
- Justin Valentine (RS Sr) (1 game)
- Ernie Wheelright (RS Sr) (12 games)

2004 Recruits (out of 26)

- Dominique Barber (Sr) (12 games)
- Matt DeGeest (RS Jr) (7 games)
- Deon Hightower (RS Jr) (8 games)
- Jack Simmons (RS Jr) (7 games)
- Willie VanDeSteeg (RS Jr) (6 games)

*Transfers/Walk-ons

- Todd Meisel (Sr) (12 games)
- Mike Sherels (Sr) (7 games)

2005 Recruits (out of 20)

- Steve Davis (Jr) (8 games)
- Eric Decker (RS So) (12 games)
- Ryan Ruckdashel (RS So) (2 games)
- Ned Tavale (RS So) (7 games)
- Jay Thomas (RS So) (1 game)

*Transfers/Walk-ons

- Kevin Manion (Jr) (3 games)
- Nick Tow-Arnett (RS So) (2 games)
- Jeff Tow-Arnett (RS So) (1 game)

2006 Recruits (out of 26)

- Dominic Alford (RS Fr) (5 games)
- Garrett Brown (So) (3 games)
- D.J. Burris (RS Fr) (11 games)
- Lee Campbell (So) (12 games)
- Adam Weber (RS Fr) (12 games)

*Transfers/Walk-Ons

- Duran Cooley (Jr) (4 games)
- Ray Henderson (So) (1 game)
- Marcus Sherels (So) (1 game)

2007 Recruits (out of 24)

- Duane Bennett (Fr) (7 games)
- Ryan Collado (Fr) (9 games)
- Tray Herndon (Fr) (7 games)
- Ralph Spry (Fr) (6 games)
- Kyle Theret (Fr) (6 games)
- Curtis Thomas Fr) (5 games)

*Transfers/Walk-ons

- Eric Small (So) (6 games)
- D. Onwuachi (So) (5 games)
 

EG#9 said:
The revisionist history on Brewster is amazing. He took over a program where the cupboard was bare and went to the same type of bowl games we'd been going to for years in his 2nd/3rd seasons, yet BARELY got a 4th year. I'd love it if people waited until Jerry Kill finished .500 in the Big Ten before claiming he's a better coach.
Click to expand...

I have no agenda when it comes to Brewster but I certainly don't have to wait to know that Jerry Kill is a better head coach than Brewster. That because Brewster was not a head coach here. Maturi gave him an internship to learn how to become a head coach here but it didn't work out. He was way over his head.

The whole idea of comparing the two is total nonsense. If you don't agree with that it is certainly your right but you might to examine how Kill and Brewster have put together their programs. In Brewster's case it was something new every year and in Kill's case it was a stable program developed over years of experience.
 

Go4Broke makes a lot of good arguments as to why Brewster never should have been hire

Who was the root cause of Brewster having all of three weeks to put together a coaching staff and recruit his first class? Joel Maturi. "Joel Maturi" let the football program rot from the inside out, and he sat on his hands until it was too late to do anything about it.
If he was going to can or fire Mason for neglecting recruiting and the program he should have done it after the OSU coaching search debacle plain and simple not waited until late 2006 during bowl season. Ultimately you can say it was Joel Maturi's indecision regarding the football program and hiring Tim Brewster that lead to him having to resign or take the happy go away retirement job. Joel was in a position to offer leadership, if he had doubts or reservations about coach Mason running the football program he should have fired and hired his own coach after the early years long before the new Stadium was even an idea. Bruinniks may have put him in this bad spot after the TT bowl game loss, but if they were going to pull the trigger that decision should have been made when they took control and became President and AD.

Maybe candidly no experienced coach wanted this job at Minnesota, but the timing of the firing could not have been worse for Minnesota, and hiring Tim Brewster when nobody else had even on there own staffs had hired him as a coordinator had a lot to do with that. I don't blame Brewster for snatching the chance at a golden opportunity, I do blame Maturi for putting him in that spot.

Because of the timing of the firing of the football coach, the new coach, he would have tied one hand behind his back taking this job. Brewster was just to inexperienced of a coach to realize he was walking into a bleep storm of his bosses making. Joel Maturi set the whole thing in motion, hopefully he righted these wrongs and hired a good coach in Kill. It's a short sample but he has appeared to do this. History will be the judge on that.
 

Two major differences between Kiffin and Brewster. Brewster is a good person off the field and Kiffin can coach.

Brew set us back some but he was and is a nice person he just gets into the snake oil, rah, rah, rah personality when he is front of people or the TV.

Strong was my choice and I was very disappointed when they announced Brewster. Strong will get a nice job in the SEC or Big 12 and be successful for a long time.
 


I only know either gentlemen from the press clippings. I really don't care for this 'what if' question since I really am enjoying being 3-0. I will enjoy it more at 4-0.
 

Tweet from Seth Davis on Lane Kiffin. Seems about right to me!

Heard a great line from a colleague today about Lane Kiffin: "He's smarter than people think he is but not as smart as he thinks he is."
8:44pm - 4 Oct 12
 

scher215 said:
Tweet from Seth Davis on Lane Kiffin. Seems about right to me!

Heard a great line from a colleague today about Lane Kiffin: "He's smarter than people think he is but not as smart as he thinks he is."
8:44pm - 4 Oct 12
Click to expand...

Seth Davis discussing anyone's level of intelligence is high comedy indeed. Dude is lucky he doesn't swallow his own tongue because he forgot what it's there for.
 

Kiffin is a jerk who has pimped his way into several high profile jobs the he did not earn.

Brewster is a good man and was an experienced head coach whose boss was an idiot. If Barry Alvarez was the AD Brewster would still be coach, Barry would never have let Brester make the mistakes that cost him his job and BA would have given Brew the creditability to get experienced long-term coaches. Not the coaches who were bad or looking only for a paycheck until their next gig.

Just like you don't fire Denny Green for Mike Tice; you don't fire Glen Mason for Tim Brewster. Neither incoming coach was an upgrade to their successful predecessors, each programs was set back years.
 


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