Brewster > M. Dantonio, R. Rodriquez

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Handsome Pete

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As the decompression continues, I ponder the state of our team compared to other teams with new coaches. I know Purdue has a new coach, but I am thinking specifically of Mark Dantonio and Rich Rodriguez at the two Michigan schools. I have a hard time arguing that they have performed better as coaches, or that their programs are in better shape, than Brewster and the Minnesota program.

The Gophers are plagued by horrible playcalling, confusion on the sidelines, and undisciplined, sloppy play on the field. And yet we went 6-6 and in the losses played nearly well enough to win against Wisconsin, Illinois and Iowa (yes I believe we should have won that game). The maladies I describe here are ALL CORRECTABLE. I don't know that the situation is the same at MSU and Michigan. I am talking the difference between being fat and ugly.

While we played just bad enough not to win all year, Iowa played just good enough not to lose and won at least 2 games they probably shouldn't have (UNI and MSU). We are talking a very few plays that separate us going 8-4 and Iowa going 8-4.
 



I posted elsewhere that we were very close to 8-4 and maybe 9-3 (we beat Illinois and Iowa without Weber, and our D gave us a chance against Penn State)
 

This thread must have been a pre-conceived bit between the two.

Otherwise Mona and Dalton have hijacked their accounts.

Anyways, to point out a fault in the original thread, how can you not say that Michigan State was close to a great season????

- Onside kick bounces differently and they beat a good Central Michigan team
- Cousins (or Nichol, can't remember who was in) throws it a yard less to the wide open guy in the endzone with :30 left against Notre Dame and they win that game
- A penalty call or a couple seconds away from beating Iowa - take your pick
- Could have EASILY beaten the Gophers when you consider Cunningham's heel a millimeter out of bounds in the endzone and the immaculate deflection was an 11 point swing in the 4th quarter.

Yes, they lost to Penn St. and Wisc. But they could have easily been 10-2.
 


The original poster makes some good points and I agree we were very close to winning
8 or 9 games this season and taking that next step up. I am very encouraged with our
defensive improvement and you can tell it continued to improve all year and they played
their very best the last week of the season. A tip of the cap to the defensive coaches and
players and their efforts have not gone unnoticed or unappreciated by any of us.

However, I think most Gopher fans are extremely alarmed at the continued regression
by the offense and the statistics back that up

Right now our offense is such a handicap we would not be able to beat
a single team in the Big Ten if we played them this week and we would have to hope our
defense or special teams scored if we were to win. I am particularly upset that the offense
seemed to get worse each week and they are a complete mess right now. This is the
second year in a row they regressed as the season went on and this is inexcusable. I
agree the problems are correctable and Brewster will have to assess whether he thinks
Fisch can turn it around next year. I think they did a little better job at avoiding stupid
penalties at Iowa and that is promising. Still I would rather have one play that we can
execute to perfection than a 1000 plays that do not work.

Maybe this is a good time to go back to the drawing board on offense and simplify it
to the point where they can execute some basic plays then build outward from there.
 

gophermartin said:
...is that really you?

Pete and IL eagle...I agree with you both.

GM
Click to expand...

I've been saying all season that we're a crippled team and if we actually had all cylinders firing we'd be quite hard to beat.......
 

Uh, there is something that is being seriously overlooked here.

Dantonio has two victories over his school's biggest rival.
Dantonio had his team finish alone in third place in the conference
Dantonio's team played in a New Year's Day bowl game last year.

Please don't say that 1-11, 6-6 and 6-6 is better than that.
 




Not to mention the flaw I pointed out in the OP's "not all correctable" state of the program of Michigan State. The Dantonio argument no matter which way you look at it doesn't hold water.
 


Dantonio is recruiting very well, so I think the long term picture in Michigan State looks pretty good. Solid young team and though Dantonio looks like he's sucking on a lemon on the sidelines, I think he's building a pretty good foundation at Michigan State.

I don't know what's happening at Michigan.

I agree with Handsome Pete that the problems with the Gophers are correctable, but it's going to take a real commitment to organizational discipline top-to-bottom to clear those up. I think a lot of the sideline confusion was a result of Fisch trying to do too much. Too many sets. Too many plays designed for certain players. Just too much jumping around. That's got to stop. I saw a lot of that in the Gutekunst years on offense and the Mason and Wacker years on defense.
 

anonymous said:
Uh, there is something that is being seriously overlooked here.

Dantonio has two victories over his school's biggest rival.
Dantonio had his team finish alone in third place in the conference
Dantonio's team played in a New Year's Day bowl game last year.

Please don't say that 1-11, 6-6 and 6-6 is better than that.
Click to expand...

the fact that their biggest rival hasn't been this bad in the last half decade might contribute to their success against them.

yes they went to a new year's bowl last year, but they had a -3 game regression this year with roughly the same, arguably easier schedule. something tells me that kind of regression wouldn't have sat well with the reactionists here.
 



To your 1st sentence, is it possible that is how Wis. and Iowa fans may feel about MN?
 

Doogie said:
To your 1st sentence, is it possible that is how Wis. and Iowa fans may feel about MN?
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the gophers have played wisconsin tough the last three years. moral victories count for nothing, but the last two years we lost by 2 and 3 points. if that is the worst we have been in 50 years, then i would hate to be a wisconsin fan. even in 2007, when there is a legitimate argument for the worst gopher team of all time, the wisconsin game was our most competitive game (at least in conference).

iowa on the other hand has treated the gophers with contempt the last couple years, i say that has more to do with iowa raising their game, than minnesota being down.
 

Fair enough on Iowa ... MN should've won in Madison last year, blowing a 2 TD lead ... this year the score might've been 31-28, but remember that the Badgers outgained the Gophers 311 to 8 (approx.) in total yards the 1st 27 minutes of the 2nd half ... and they kept running the same play.
 

i'm batman said:
the fact that their biggest rival hasn't been this bad in the last half decade might contribute to their success against them.

yes they went to a new year's bowl last year, but they had a -3 game regression this year with roughly the same, arguably easier schedule. something tells me that kind of regression wouldn't have sat well with the reactionists here.
Click to expand...

That would be the same Michigan team that is the worst team in 50 years that beat us like red-headed step children last year, correct?

And 6-6 coming off of two bowl games in two years, a 6-2 Big Ten finish, Jan 1 Bowl game, replacing your starting QB and RB. Yeah, there'd be some grumbling (there are Florida fans grumbling about their team not being as dominant this year), but that program is in far, far, far better shape than ours. Dantonio has proven to be a better coach, nearly equal recruiter and has done a fantastic job selling their program. I hope Brewster can get us to the same point Dantonio has gotten MSU.

I agree all of our problems are fixable, although after three seasons of acknowledging the problems but not being able to fix them, not sure Brewster can fix it.

I don't think Brewster is better than Dick Rod either, but I think I'd rather have Brewster as our coach than Dick Rod.
 

caliGopher said:
That would be the same Michigan team that is the worst team in 50 years that beat us like red-headed step children last year, correct?

And 6-6 coming off of two bowl games in two years, a 6-2 Big Ten finish, Jan 1 Bowl game, replacing your starting QB and RB. Yeah, there'd be some grumbling (there are Florida fans grumbling about their team not being as dominant this year), but that program is in far, far, far better shape than ours. Dantonio has proven to be a better coach, nearly equal recruiter and has done a fantastic job selling their program. I hope Brewster can get us to the same point Dantonio has gotten MSU.

I agree all of our problems are fixable, although after three seasons of acknowledging the problems but not being able to fix them, not sure Brewster can fix it.

I don't think Brewster is better than Dick Rod either, but I think I'd rather have Brewster as our coach than Dick Rod.
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who did he prove himself to be a better coach than? brewster? cause dantonio and brewster have only faced each other once, and he was "outcoached" int the loss (dantonio's words being quoted). also, the fact that michigan beat minnesota has no bearing on the argument about MSU beating them.
 

Doogie said:
Fair enough on Iowa ... MN should've won in Madison last year, blowing a 2 TD lead ... this year the score might've been 31-28, but remember that the Badgers outgained the Gophers 311 to 8 (approx.) in total yards the 1st 27 minutes of the 2nd half ... and they kept running the same play.
Click to expand...

i have no argument against the FACT that minnesota lost. i was just pointing out that the last two games against wisconsin, at least, could have been wins for minnesota. if we both agree on that, and we both agree that the gophers haven't been worse in the last fifty years than under brewster (which i don't accept, but for the purposes of the argument), then wisconsin doesn't have much to be excited about.
 

bankonit said:
Our future looks better
Click to expand...

Bankonit you are easily one of the top 3-5 homers on the gopherhole. Explain WHY you think that the Gophers future looks better than MSU and Michigan? Because over on Rivals some guy writes some smoke about how great all the Gopher recruits are? No offense, but DickRod will get his players at Michigan, and Dantonio has recruited well at MSU so far.

And how completely LAME is it to play the, 'if a few breaks go our way, we're an 8-4 or 9-3 team!' schtick. How can anyone watching the Gopher-Badger game, in the first B10 game at the new stadium, say that the Gophs should have won that game? The First half was competitive, and then, as Doogie says, the Badgers absolutely DOMINATED a good gopher defense. What if Badger RB Zach Brown doesn't fumble on the Gopher 10 and it doesnt go for a 90 yard score the other way? Thats at minimum a 10 point swing and with the way UW was running, more than likely a 14 point swing. The point is, it wasn't that close and the shouldda wouldda couldda been 8-4 schtick is just sour grapes.
 

I'm Batman,

OK, let's say that those Michigan victories don't count for anything and that they are about the same as beating, say, Indiana. I'll even discredit a win over Notre Dame.

But in three years at Michigan State also has wins over Iowa, Wisconsin and Penn State.

This year the Spartans went 6-6 while replacing both their QB and RB. Of their six losses, five were one-score games. They were blown out once.

I'll take that as a down year.
 

Handsome Pete said:
While we played just bad enough not to win all year, Iowa played just good enough not to lose and won at least 2 games they probably shouldn't have (UNI and MSU). We are talking a very few plays that separate us going 8-4 and Iowa going 8-4.
Click to expand...

That may be the best case scenario, but I'm sure an Iowa fan could point at our two seasons and say they were a few breaks away from being 12-0 and we were a few away from being 4-8. The Syracuse, Air Force, NU, MSU, and SDSU games were all very close and you can come up with some wouldda coullda plays for the other teams in all of those games. Syracuse and MSU especially. I tend to think the final record for most teams usually reflect how the season went.
 

i'm batman said:
who did he prove himself to be a better coach than? brewster? cause dantonio and brewster have only faced each other once, and he was "outcoached" int the loss (dantonio's words being quoted). also, the fact that michigan beat minnesota has no bearing on the argument about MSU beating them.
Click to expand...


If it makes you feel better fine, but the assertion we are in a better position overall today than Michigan State doesn't hold water.
 

Dantonio vs. Brewster

Let me start by saying (as Bob Huggins likes to say) that "You are what you are, your record is what it says it is." And what Michigan State & the Gophers both are this season is 6-6 and very mediocre. Coulda', woulda' and shoulda' doesn't mean a hill of beans. ... it's the loser's lament (referring to the "woulda', coulda', shoulda' excuse).

That said, here are some numbers through 3 years of the Dantonio-Brewster regimes:

Dantonio
22-16 overall
13-11 in Big 10
4-2 vs. chief rivals (Michigan & Notre Dame)
5-3 in November Big 10 games
2 seasons of .500 or better in Big 10 (including a 6-2)
0-2 in bowl games
0-1 head to head vs. Brew

Brew
14-23 overall
6-18 in Big 10
0-6 vs. chief rivals (Iowa & Wisconsin)
0-9 in November Big 10 games
0 seasons of .500 or better in Big 10
0-1 in bowl games
1-0 head to head vs. Dantonio

Other than the head to head meeting, can't see any way Brew wins this debate.
 

Drew Brees?

image_1853323.jpg
 


I am not so sure it is fair to include rivals without including Penn State (the other of Michigan State's annual games I believe).

Addtionally rivals are not really fair as ND/ Michigan are very down while Iowa/ Wisconsin are historically strong.

I think the most important comparison is Dantonio's 6-2 2008 Big Ten record. Brewster will get a BIG, BIG extension if he ever goes 6-2 in the Big Ten.
 

Winnipegopher,

I agree that Iowa is very strong, but people on here want it both ways. On one hand, there is all this talk about how Wisconsin is slipping backwards and how Minnesota is as strong as the Badgers and recruits should choose the Gophers.

If that's the case, you can't now say Wisconsin is historically strong.

If you want to add Penn State to Michigan and Notre Dame, then Dantonio is 5-4 vs. chief rivals.
 

Notre Dame much more of a rivalry

Notre Dame is much more of a rival than Penn State for MSU. There's a healthy long-standing mutual respect & tradition between the two schools because Notre Dame helped MSU get into the Big 10 while Michigan was trying to blackball that from happening. If you ask any knowledgeable MSU football fan who their biggest two rivalries are, Michigan and Notre Dame would immediately slide right off their tongue.

But that said, as Anonymous pointed out, the record would be 5-4 for Dantonio if the Nitts are included as a chief rival. As well, Brew would be 0-8 if we added Michigan as a chief rival (Axe, Pig, Jug).

IMO, just because the Governor's Victory Bell (Gophers vs. PSU) and the Land Grant Trophy (Sparty vs. PSU) exist doesn't mean they're that significant of a rivalry.
 

anonymous said:
Uh, there is something that is being seriously overlooked here.

Dantonio has two victories over his school's biggest rival.
Dantonio had his team finish alone in third place in the conference
Dantonio's team played in a New Year's Day bowl game last year.

Please don't say that 1-11, 6-6 and 6-6 is better than that.
Click to expand...



Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
 

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