Brennan Armstrong reopens recruiting process

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So can anyone with knowledge post the following:

1. What actually happened with Armstrong
2. Is Vic interested and planning to take a visit
3. Who are the other options
 

John Galt said:
So can anyone with knowledge post the following:

1. What actually happened with Armstrong
2. Is Vic interested and planning to take a visit
3. Who are the other options
Click to expand...

Can't speak to 2 and 3, but what I heard on Armstrong (from the same sources who knew about Devers, Waters, Croft and Duke suspensions well before they were made public) problem #1 is that he was suspended for being at a party and claimed that he wasn't drinking. That was discovered to be a lie, and that incident wasn't the only time.
Furthermore, said player sunbsequently informed the staff that the OSU had started to express an interest. Well, as there's a member of the staff who may be very well acquainted with many members of the OSU staff,this was found out to be untrue.
 

Breakin' The Plane said:
Can't speak to 2 and 3, but what I heard on Armstrong (from the same sources who knew about Devers, Waters, Croft and Duke suspensions well before they were made public) problem #1 is that he was suspended for being at a party and claimed that he wasn't drinking. That was discovered to be a lie, and that incident wasn't the only time.
Furthermore, said player sunbsequently informed the staff that the OSU had started to express an interest. Well, as there's a member of the staff who may be very well acquainted with many members of the OSU staff,this was found out to be untrue.
Click to expand...

So, this source has been fairly reliable?
 

Breakin' The Plane said:
Can't speak to 2 and 3, but what I heard on Armstrong (from the same sources who knew about Devers, Waters, Croft and Duke suspensions well before they were made public) problem #1 is that he was suspended for being at a party and claimed that he wasn't drinking. That was discovered to be a lie, and that incident wasn't the only time.
Furthermore, said player sunbsequently informed the staff that the OSU had started to express an interest. Well, as there's a member of the staff who may be very well acquainted with many members of the OSU staff,this was found out to be untrue.
Click to expand...

If that's true, not sure I'm too upset
 

Is it common to pull offers for underage drinking? If so, what percentage of past and present players would be dismissed from the team?

The Ohio State stuff seems odd. Why would that even come up in conversation? Is he asking for cash or something? Why would that even be discussed with MN staff?
 


Pompous Elitist said:
Is it common to pull offers for underage drinking? If so, what percentage of past and present players would be dismissed from the team?

The Ohio State stuff seems odd. Why would that even come up in conversation? Is he asking for cash or something? Why would that even be discussed with MN staff?
Click to expand...



I think it's the lying
 

Breakin' The Plane said:
Can't speak to 2 and 3, but what I heard on Armstrong (from the same sources who knew about Devers, Waters, Croft and Duke suspensions well before they were made public) problem #1 is that he was suspended for being at a party and claimed that he wasn't drinking. That was discovered to be a lie, and that incident wasn't the only time.
Furthermore, said player sunbsequently informed the staff that the OSU had started to express an interest. Well, as there's a member of the staff who may be very well acquainted with many members of the OSU staff,this was found out to be untrue.
Click to expand...

That would all make sense. Also, fits his pattern to say we are still recruiting him and he's still visiting. All in his mind to create a frenzy of these other phantom schools fighting for him. Wow! Thanks for the info.
 

salzie said:
I think it's the lying
Click to expand...

Hmmm, okay.

Not endorsing it, but having been seventeen/eighteen once what is ones first instinct when faced with harsh repercussions - try to hide it. He's still building his character. Or, he's Brennan Football. One of the two.
 

I've heard it is a more than lying. Not sure tOSU topic was a lie - maybe an embellishment on their interest. I believe there has been a lot of drama with BA over the months.


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Pompous Elitist said:
Is it common to pull offers for underage drinking? If so, what percentage of past and present players would be dismissed from the team?

The Ohio State stuff seems odd. Why would that even come up in conversation? Is he asking for cash or something? Why would that even be discussed with MN staff?
Click to expand...
Hard to believe a superstar quarterback in small town Ohio would drink.

Sent from my Commodore 64 using Tapatalk
 

Does every recruiting class have to contain at least one "Snelson like" candidate?
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
He might. One site had called him a Sophomore, but I think he actually is a redshirt Freshman.
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If he has 3 years that would be perfect.

Sent from my Commodore 64 using Tapatalk
 

This would make a lot of sense now. The QB is always going to be held to a higher standard, because that is the defacto leader. If the staff is having a hard time trusting him that's not a good look for BA
 



Pompous Elitist said:
Is it common to pull offers for underage drinking? If so, what percentage of past and present players would be dismissed from the team?

The Ohio State stuff seems odd. Why would that even come up in conversation? Is he asking for cash or something? Why would that even be discussed with MN staff?
Click to expand...

LOL...I was wondering the same thing. Little nod nod, wink wink over the phone? "Ya know, my boy Urban called me up yesterday. Yeah, he's like mad into me. Just not sure this whole Minnesota thing is WORTH my while if you know what I mean. Like...the grass is always GREENer on the other side."

zz3xmu6.jpg
 


I don't know what the Fleck skeptics think, but my assumption right now is that PJ is a clean program guy. (not saying anyone here hasn't been since Luther Darville was around these parts).
But if there is drama about that sort of stuff, then it would make sense that things have gotten complicated.

The other thing...
If Fleck skeptics think Fleck is a BS'er, we've all heard the saying that a BS'er can't BS a BS'er, so BA might have been caught in a bunch of BS' since Fleck is such a BSA (BS artist).
 

grumps said:
I don't know what the Fleck skeptics think, but my assumption right now is that PJ is a clean program guy. (not saying anyone here hasn't been since Luther Darville was around these parts).
But if there is drama about that sort of stuff, then it would make sense that things have gotten complicated.

The other thing...
If Fleck skeptics think Fleck is a BS'er, we've all heard the saying that a BS'er can't BS a BS'er, so BA might have been caught in a bunch of BS' since Fleck is such a BSA (BS artist).
Click to expand...

To the first, this is one of those things I think sports fans are conflicted about. I mean, fans really want to WIN, and get all the national adulation and all that but then they find out some of their players are dirtbags. Maybe a player like All Day beats his kid, or a player his wife, or breaks the jaw of his girlfriend. Maybe they do drugs or drive drunk. Someone like Bob Stoops might say, well, I might need that player to beat Ohio State or Alabama. So they make an exception. Then fans make rationalizations like she slapped him first and life goes on. That's what some "big time" coaches do in college and the NFL and probably in some high school leagues. Some coaches buy players during the recruiting season - paying off coaches or parents that influence the kids. Boosters take care of players. Nobody wants to think their coach or program will commit or allow that, but maybe some blue chippers are up for sale...talent wins games.

I will say right now I explicitly disapprove of all that. I like amateur athletics because it isn't as compromised as the pros in terms of $. However, obviously there is a shifting line of conduct some fans and coaches are willing to cross (and others are not) in pursuit of the elusive magical season and some teams have an easier path to success because their coaches are willing to look the other way. What misconduct is allowable? Jaywalking? Underage drinking? Felonies are usually not, at the college level, unless charges are reduced or dropped somehow...

Can PJ really turn the U into "BYU East" and recruit only the shiniest of players that don't underage drink or tell white lies or get into trouble and compete for Championships? I don't know, but I think it's tougher...We don't like to think about these issues too hard. We want to believe we have the best players on and off the field.

To the second bolded, I'm not sure what to make of PJ yet. I admittedly take a dimmer view of human nature (based on extensive exposure to....humans) so my default position is skepticism. Salesmen learn what people want to hear and say those things without internal conflict as it furthers their goals. Other people are highly uncomfortable telling "white lies" or especially fraudulent statements.

Part of me genuinely wants to buy what he's selling and believes that he truly thinks he can build and recruit to a championship program with only the most law-abiding, clean, conscientious of young men without participating in recruiting antics. I'd love to see that happen and I try to throttle my criticism because I do want to believe. He'll have 3-4 years to prove himself and build his team.
 


Pompous Elitist said:
Hmmm, okay.

Not endorsing it, but having been seventeen/eighteen once what is ones first instinct when faced with harsh repercussions - try to hide it. He's still building his character. Or, he's Brennan Football. One of the two.
Click to expand...

I get what you're saying, but if he's continually lying to the staff, it could be an issue. I drank in HS and I turned out good...fine...I'm still alive
 

(1) It sounds like Brennan was at a party, drank and probably lied about it. It wasn't the wisest decision, but I don't think that's a major red flag. Even the dishonesty, I mean, we all lied when we were young to try to get out of trouble. . .

(2) I'd be shocked if we lost interest. He looks like a really talented kid and it's an obvious position of need.

(3) If that caused Brennan to reconsider is our 2019 recruiting and/or a JuCo - - I don't think he was the guy we wanted anyway. We are going to keep recruiting the position and if that threat of competition from the U of MN is too much, where is he going to go with less competition? So I doubt this is the issue.

(4) If I had to guess, he is getting bombarded with interest from a ton of schools and he is curious. Sometimes those guys stay committed, usually they don't. It's the world of college football recruiting. It's why it is so silly to start ranking classes before NSD (even at that point it's silly).
 

MGGopher said:
So your fiance decides she wants to sleep with a couple more guys prior to the wedding -- just to be sure. You guys cool with that?
Click to expand...

Sounds like we wanted to do a little sleeping around as well so I'm not sure if the marriage was meant to be in the first place. Let's see how it plays out.
 

grumps said:
I don't know what the Fleck skeptics think, but my assumption right now is that PJ is a clean program guy. (not saying anyone here hasn't been since Luther Darville was around these parts).
But if there is drama about that sort of stuff, then it would make sense that things have gotten complicated.

The other thing...
If Fleck skeptics think Fleck is a BS'er, we've all heard the saying that a BS'er can't BS a BS'er, so BA might have been caught in a bunch of BS' since Fleck is such a BSA (BS artist).
Click to expand...

During his press conference yesterday, he spent some time explaining how if you have elite people on your team, it will translate to elite performance on the field. He talked about players like Santoso, McCrary, Jordahl as people who have grown personally in the last year and have translated to better results. This may be part of that "clean program guy" that you are talking about.
 


Pompous Elitist said:
To the first, this is one of those things I think sports fans are conflicted about. I mean, fans really want to WIN, and get all the national adulation and all that but then they find out some of their players are dirtbags. Maybe a player like All Day beats his kid, or a player his wife, or breaks the jaw of his girlfriend. Maybe they do drugs or drive drunk. Someone like Bob Stoops might say, well, I might need that player to beat Ohio State or Alabama. So they make an exception. Then fans make rationalizations like she slapped him first and life goes on. That's what some "big time" coaches do in college and the NFL and probably in some high school leagues. Some coaches buy players during the recruiting season - paying off coaches or parents that influence the kids. Boosters take care of players. Nobody wants to think their coach or program will commit or allow that, but maybe some blue chippers are up for sale...talent wins games.

I will say right now I explicitly disapprove of all that. I like amateur athletics because it isn't as compromised as the pros in terms of $. However, obviously there is a shifting line of conduct some fans and coaches are willing to cross (and others are not) in pursuit of the elusive magical season and some teams have an easier path to success because their coaches are willing to look the other way. What misconduct is allowable? Jaywalking? Underage drinking? Felonies are usually not, at the college level, unless charges are reduced or dropped somehow...

Can PJ really turn the U into "BYU East" and recruit only the shiniest of players that don't underage drink or tell white lies or get into trouble and compete for Championships? I don't know, but I think it's tougher...We don't like to think about these issues too hard. We want to believe we have the best players on and off the field.

To the second bolded, I'm not sure what to make of PJ yet. I admittedly take a dimmer view of human nature (based on extensive exposure to....humans) so my default position is skepticism. Salesmen learn what people want to hear and say those things without internal conflict as it furthers their goals. Other people are highly uncomfortable telling "white lies" or especially fraudulent statements.

Part of me genuinely wants to buy what he's selling and believes that he truly thinks he can build and recruit to a championship program with only the most law-abiding, clean, conscientious of young men without participating in recruiting antics. I'd love to see that happen and I try to throttle my criticism because I do want to believe. He'll have 3-4 years to prove himself and build his team.
Click to expand...

You are a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma.
You want a winner, a program that recruits good, high level players that want to play for the U. You want a coach that can motivate his players, the boosters and the fan base. You want the program to be based upon a true college experience that teaches leadership and expects more out of their players than just showing up for the games.
So, you have a new coach that has committed to practice those principals and has a brief track record of doing just that. And you can’t stand him because he yells “row the boat”, or controls the message more than you think he should. Just step back and give him a chance and stop finding ways to criticize his style. Any coach the U could bring in that would stand any chance of bringing us up to a competitive program will have some sort of ego/style/salesmanship issues that are contrary to the typical Minnesota understated norms. Just enjoy the ride and lighten up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Breakin' The Plane said:
Can't speak to 2 and 3, but what I heard on Armstrong (from the same sources who knew about Devers, Waters, Croft and Duke suspensions well before they were made public) problem #1 is that he was suspended for being at a party and claimed that he wasn't drinking. That was discovered to be a lie, and that incident wasn't the only time.
Furthermore, said player sunbsequently informed the staff that the OSU had started to express an interest. Well, as there's a member of the staff who may be very well acquainted with many members of the OSU staff,this was found out to be untrue.
Click to expand...

These don't sound like great reasons to back away from a kid. At worst, these are signs of immaturity and poor judgement that are common to many teens and more innocent than many DI football recruits. And if Fleck is pleased about the growth McCrary, Green and others have shown, these seem like minor issues to fix.

Also, I don't see why Armstrong would lie about interest from OSU. It's not like he's holding out for a higher salary ... right? I can, however, see why OSU coaches would lie to Warriner about poking their noses in, especially if they're not truly interested. On his podcast, Burns indicated that OSU has shown BA some interest, although he thinks it's to prod a different recruit. (I'm not saying Burns knows more than BTP's source.)

Having said that, Fleck knows more about Armstrong and their relationship than anybody. Maybe Fleck is backing away, maybe Armstrong is. Based on the little we know, it seems odd to me that it would be Fleck.
 

I highly doubt that this has anything to do with the drinking. Could it be that Armstrong gave a verbal early, tore it up this year, is probably hearing from some additional schools, and we're having a stinky season?

Come on guys, we're not "cooling" on our top QB recruit because he said he didn't drink at a party and maybe did.
 

tmvander said:
Come on guys, we're not "cooling" on our top QB recruit because he said he didn't drink at a party and maybe did.
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If you actually read what people are saying, it would be that lying about the incident was neither the only lie nor the only incident.
 

dpodoll68 said:
If you actually read what people are saying, it would be that lying about the incident was neither the only lie nor the only incident.
Click to expand...

I read what other people said. I'm just not buying that every time a recruit re-opens his recruitment etc. it has nothing to do with the gophers. I get it we're homers and love our team but I highly doubt Fleck has the time or resources to hire a PI squad to dig into if Ohio St was in contact or not, or if this kid has drank underage a few times to catch him in a lie. If that is the case and that's the reason we're cooling I think Fleck should worry about trying to win another foot ball game and spend less time trying to dig up lies.

I too want a clean program run here but we'll be struggling on the field if we're going to push away kids that tell petty lies.
 

tmvander said:
I read what other people said. I'm just not buying that every time a recruit re-opens his recruitment etc. it has nothing to do with the gophers. I get it we're homers and love our team but I highly doubt Fleck has the time or resources to hire a PI squad to dig into if Ohio St was in contact or not, or if this kid has drank underage a few times to catch him in a lie. If that is the case and that's the reason we're cooling I think Fleck should worry about trying to win another foot ball game and spend less time trying to dig up lies.

I too want a clean program run here but we'll be struggling on the field if we're going to push away kids that tell petty lies.
Click to expand...

I have no idea if any of it is true, but I know it wouldn't take hiring a PI to figure out if it was. At least not for those who are connected. Ed W was a coach at Ohio St less than a year ago. I'm sure he could make a couple calls to figure out if there was any validity to their supposed interest if that is what the issue is. I'm also sure no one will ever really get to the bottom of why BA is now a "soft commit" (or decommitted, or whatever the heck it actually is), so I don't think it is fair to say we rescinded our offer due to some petty lies or that BA chose to opt out due to a few losses.
 

tmvander said:
I read what other people said. I'm just not buying that every time a recruit re-opens his recruitment etc. it has nothing to do with the gophers. I get it we're homers and love our team but I highly doubt Fleck has the time or resources to hire a PI squad to dig into if Ohio St was in contact or not, or if this kid has drank underage a few times to catch him in a lie. If that is the case and that's the reason we're cooling I think Fleck should worry about trying to win another foot ball game and spend less time trying to dig up lies.

I too want a clean program run here but we'll be struggling on the field if we're going to push away kids that tell petty lies.
Click to expand...

Ed Warinner had coached at Ohio St. for the past several years. I'm guessing he keeps in contact with a lot of people and could easily find out whether there's interest. Fleck doesn't need to hire a PI firm.

I understand where you're coming from, but what is being circulated is very plausible, and if you question whether a person is honest at their core, it's tough to pin your legacy on them - particularly at QB. This isn't just a random LB or WR recruit we're talking about. The ability to put the right QB on the field in 2018-2020 will literally make or break Fleck's tenure here and possibly his overall legacy.
 

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