Boise vs Wis.

[Stan The Caddy]

Stan the Caddy-

What do you think Boise's record would be this year if they played a B10 conference schedule?

Count me as someone who thinks Boise would lose 2-4 games if they played a B10/SEC/Pac10/B12 conference sched.

Depends on what two teams they are missing and who they would play on the road. I think they would beat any BT team in Boise. If they had the Badgers BT schedule this year I honestly think they would be 11-0 or 10-1 right now.

 

[Stan The Caddy]

It is absolutely, positively something entirely different to play a schedule like say - Penn State, for example: @IA, Illinois, @MN, Michigan, Northwestern, @Ohio State, @Indiana, Michigan State (throw in PSU's game @Alabama and Boise State playing that schedule is more likely to be playing in the Insight Bowl in Phoenix, not the Fiesta Bowl in Phoenix).

Penn State's schedule? Really? Boise would roll through that at 10-2. Loss at 'Bama and at tOSU. That does not put them in the Insight Bowl. (By the way, the Big Ten is no longer affiliated with the Insight bowl).

 

[MaxyJR1]

I want to see Oregon and TCU in the NC game and Boise and Wisconsin in the Rose Bowl. That would put Ohio State and an SEC team in the Sugar possibly. I think those would be fun games to watch.

 

[Silvio]

Depends on what two teams they are missing and who they would play on the road. I think they would beat any BT team in Boise. If they had the Badgers BT schedule this year I honestly think they would be 11-0 or 10-1 right now.

Are you implying that the Badgers have an easy BT Schedule? I would say for being a top team they have one of the harder schedules, certainly more difficult than either MSU or OSU. I would say that of the top tier teams they along with Iowa had the toughest BigTen schedules. I know they missed a couple of the mediocre teams, but the played the top 3 teams in the conference. I think Boise would be a one or two loss team, but the home/away would play a huge factor.

 

[tjgopher]

Penn State's schedule? Really? Boise would roll through that at 10-2. Loss at 'Bama and at tOSU. That does not put them in the Insight Bowl. (By the way, the Big Ten is no longer affiliated with the Insight bowl).

Boise would not be 10-2 with the Penn State schedule. They'd likely have losses @Bama, @Iowa, @OSU, and at least one loss amongst MSU, Michigan, Northwestern. You are underestimating the toll it takes to play consecutive weeks in the Big Ten.

Look, Oregon State is very ordinary (no better than Northwestern or Illinois). They gave Boise State a nice game in Boise's building. It was a seven-point game into the 4th quarter. Boise then would have to follow that up with another really good BCS level team if they had to play in the Big Ten. They wouldn't get to go play New Mexico State.

And, yes, the Insight Bowl is still affiliated with the Big Ten. In fact, more than ever. They moved up the pecking order to No. 4/5 (alternating with Gator Bowl).

 

[Stan The Caddy]

No, not implying the Badgers have an easy BT schedule, but let's be honest; it is not exactly taxing either. I was simply saying if we substituted Boise for the Badgers and played the same schedule this year, they would have a similiar record. I think Boise would would beat MSU on the road and possibly lose to tOSU or @ Iowa, not both.

If you want to compare game-by-game I think we can all agree Boise would win all 4 NC games. The BT slate looks like this.

@MSU, Minnesota, tOSU, @Iowa, @Purdue, Indiana, @ Michigan, @Northwestern...that is not murderers row people. They missed PSU and Illinois, both bowl eligible teams and played the 4 worst teams in the conference (and arguably the bottom 5).

 

[Stan The Caddy]

And, yes, the Insight Bowl is still affiliated with the Big Ten. In fact, more than ever. They moved up the pecking order to No. 4 (alternating with Gator Bowl).

My bad, I was thinking Champps Sports for some reason. Whoops.

 

[MaxyJR1]

We know weather would not be a factor as Boise is probably worse than any BT town as far as weather this time of year.

 

[Stan The Caddy]

Boise would not be 10-2 with the Penn State schedule. They'd likely have losses @Bama, @Iowa, @OSU, and at least one loss amongst MSU, Michigan, Northwestern. You are underestimating the toll it takes to play consecutive weeks in the Big Ten.

I think you are underestimating how good Boise State's defense is this year. To say that Northwestern or Michigan would beat them regardless of who Boise would have played week-in and week-out is laughable.

 

[Silvio]

No, not implying the Badgers have an easy schedule BT schedul, but let's be honest; it is not exactly taxing either. I was simply saying if we substituted Boise for the Badgers and played the same schedule this year, they would have a similiar record. I think Boise would would beat MSU on the road and possibly lose to tOSU or @ Iowa, not both.

If you want to compare game-by-game I think we can all agree Boise would win all 4 NC games. The BT slate looks like this.

@MSU, Minnesota, tOSU, @Iowa, @Purdue, Indiana, @ Michigan, @Northwestern...that is not murderers row people. They missed PSU and Illinois, both bowl eligible teams and played the 4 worst teams in the conference (and arguably the bottom 5).

True but they also played the top 3 (excluding themselves). And their defense is good, clearly the class of the conference. However, Virginia Tech put up 30, and Oregon State put up 24. Oregon State is an average Pac10 team. Let's not get carried away with how great this defense is based on what they do in their conference. Oregon state probably won't be bowl eligible.

 

[tjgopher]

I think you are underestimating how good Boise State's defense is this year. To say that Northwestern or Michigan would beat them regardless of who Boise would have played week-in and week-out is laughable.

Well, in the only two "games" they've really played, that great Boise defense allowed 30 and 24 points respectively. Against a mediocre Oregon State club and an above-average ACC VT team. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that if the Boise defense had to go against the offensive lines of OSU, IA, WIS, MSU, PSU, ILL, MICH in successive weeks, all the while trying to contain athletes like Denard Robinson, Terrelle Pryor, Nathan Scheelhaase, John Clay, Marvin McNutt, Mikel Lashoure, Roy Roundtree, Dan Persa, and many other players much better than the best in the WAC that the week-in/week-out grinder would impact them. For you to suggest otherwise is laughable, to me. So, I guess we can just simply laugh at each other

To put it another way, let's look at the Boise schedule. I think you could make a reasonable argument that Ohio State, Wisconsin, Iowa, and Michigan State all would go through that slate unbeaten and be in a BCS game. I think you could also say that Penn State, Illinois, Northwestern (with a healthy Persa), and possibly Michigan would likely lose only 1 or 2. Heck, Minnesota is a clear bowl team playing that Bronco slate.

I mean, the WAC is a bad, bad football league. Terrible.

 

[Silvio]

Well, in the only two "games" they've really played, that great Boise defense allowed 30 and 24 points respectively. Against a mediocre Oregon State club and an above-average ACC VT team. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that if the Boise defense had to go against the offensive lines of OSU, IA, WIS, MSU, PSU, ILL, MICH in successive weeks, all the while trying to contain athletes like Denard Robinson, Terrelle Pryor, Nathan Scheelhaase, John Clay, Marvin McNutt, Mikel Lashoure, Roy Roundtree, Dan Persa, and many other players much better than the best in the WAC that the week-in/week-out grinder would impact them. For you to suggest otherwise is laughable, to me. So, I guess we can just simply laugh at each other

To put it another way, let's look at the Boise schedule. I think you could make a reasonable argument that Ohio State, Wisconsin, Iowa, and Michigan State all would go through that slate unbeaten. I think you could also say that Illinois, Northwestern (with a healthy Persa), and Michigan would likely lose only 1 or 2. Heck, Minnesota is a clear bowl team playing that Bronco slate.

I don't know if Minnesota is a bowl eligible team (I sure hope they would be). I know one game snap shots are dangerous, but Washington State had a more convincing victory over Oregon State than Boise State did.

 

[Stan The Caddy]

TJ-

We can agree on the following:

1. The BT is better than the WAC
2. Oregon State's best player by far (Jacquizz Rodgers) has been out a majority of the season, he played against Boise & TCU.

My answer to Boise allowing 30 & 24 points in the only "games" they have played is that those were early in the year and their defense has improved as the season has gone along. (I know this a foreign concept to us Gopher fans, sorry could not resist a cheap shot against our own team). Now, does going into the WAC schedule have something to do with that improvement? Yes. Maybe I am too hypnotized by their last performance against Fresno or the fact that they held Hawai'i to their lowest yardage total in 12 years or what they did to Oregon last year. Whatever it is, I personally think too many college football fans brush them aside because of the who they play and they do not look at how they do it.

Boise has a team right now that has the formula that most coaches would want for success. A dominant front 7 and an efficient offense led by an experience, accurate senior QB.

 

[GVBadger]

TJ-

We can agree on the following:

1. The BT is better than the WAC
2. Oregon State's best player by far (Jacquizz Rodgers) has been out a majority of the season, he played against Boise & TCU.

My answer to Boise allowing 30 & 24 points in the only "games" they have played is that those were early in the year and their defense has improved as the season has gone along. (I know this a foreign concept to us Gopher fans, sorry could not resist a cheap shot against our own team). Now, does going into the WAC schedule have something to do with that improvement? Yes. Maybe I am too hypnotized by their last performance against Fresno or the fact that they held Hawai'i to their lowest yardage total in 12 years or what they did to Oregon last year. Whatever it is, I personally think too many college football fans brush them aside because of the who they play and they do not look at how they do it.

Boise has a team right now that has the formula that most coaches would want for success. A dominant front 7 and an efficient offense led by an experience, accurate senior QB.

There is no doubt that Boise is good and I don't think anyone can deny that. I also think it is impossible to say how they would do in a league like the Big 10 or SEC. You can make arguments either way, but nobody really knows.

A Boise and Wisconsin match up would be really interesting. Strength on strength. I of course think the Badgers could beat Boise, but I am biased. It would be great to see it happen.

I would prefer the Badgers play Boise over Stanford if they get to the Rose Bowl. I think it is a more interesting match up, even though Stanford is very good as well.

 

[Stan The Caddy]

There is no doubt that Boise is good and I don't think anyone can deny that. I also think it is impossible to say how they would do in a league like the Big 10 or SEC. You can make arguments either way, but nobody really knows.

Yes, agreed, but that is what makes this fun!

Now I just hope Boise does not lay an egg on Friday against Nevada and forcing me to eat crow...

 

[dpodoll68]

This thread is full of fail.

The whole "Boise St./TCU vs. BCS conference team X" is pointless, because the former teams have inherent recruiting disadvantages - namely, the fact that they are not in a BCS conference. It's not fair to ask "what would Boise St. do against a Big Ten schedule" because they're not in the Big Ten. They're recruiting very few players who want to play in the Big Ten and are getting Big Ten offers. Of course they're not equipped to play a Big Ten schedule, because they're not in the Big Ten. It would be embarrassing for the conference if a school recruiting high-end WAC-level players were able to come in and go undefeated. It just wouldn't happen. No amount of "coaching up" is going to get that level of player to perform at that level week-in and week-out.

This whole argument will be easier to settle in the next few years as Utah moves to the Pac-12. We will see how they are able to perform once they have the Pac-12 to sell and when they have to win those types of recruiting battles.

 

[Stan The Caddy]

This whole argument will be easier to settle in the next few years as Utah moves to the Pac-12. We will see how they are able to perform once they have the Pac-12 to sell and when they have to win those types of recruiting battles.

This line of reasoning is full of fail because Utah, as currently constructed, is not Boise State or TCU.

You are correct though, it is an impossible debate to ever settle. The best fans can hope for is some sort of BCS matchup to see how Boise State (and/or TCU) fares against a BCS conference opponent in a BCS Bowl Game. We had that chance last year, but the powers that be in the BCS decided for some brilliant reason to have Boise and TCU face each other in a BCS game.

 

[dpodoll68]

This line of reasoning is full of fail because Utah, as currently constructed, is not Boise State or TCU.

That's why I said "easier to settle", because it will never be fully settled until Boise St. gets into a BCS conference. Given that they would have to become a real school (higher than NDSU-level academically) to get into any BCS conference besides the SEC, I doubt that will ever happen.

 

[Stan The Caddy]

I suppose they could go Independent, but that is not likely either with the pending move to the Mountain West.

 

[tjgopher]

The whole "Boise St./TCU vs. BCS conference team X" is pointless, because the former teams have inherent recruiting disadvantages - namely, the fact that they are not in a BCS conference.

First it is not pointless. There is a point. Boise and other similar schools feel they should receive some of the same benefits as a BCS school...i.e. get an automatic berth to a BCS bowl game if their record warrants....even though, as you point out, they aren't playing a schedule nearly as competitive.

It's not fair to ask "what would Boise St. do against a Big Ten schedule" because they're not in the Big Ten. They're recruiting very few players who want to play in the Big Ten and are getting Big Ten offers.

It is fair, in my opinion to ask that question as long as Boise is asking for an automatic payout of $14 million when they go undefeated in a clearly inferior league. The fair question, in my mind, then becomes, what would they do in the Big Ten and would they be good enough over the course of a season to warrant such an invitation to such a big pay check. Sure, they have disadantages when compared to the Big Ten, but they also some advantages. They can get a lot of kids into school that would not qualify academically at most Big Ten schools. They can go unbeaten with a less competitive schedule while spending far less money than a Big Ten team, yet with far less expense to go undefeated in a far inferior league, they want the same payout at the end of the day that a school like Wisconsin (11-1 in 2006 and not in BCS bowl) or Michigan State (possibly 11-1 in 2010 and not in BCS bowl ) will miss out on. So, I believe it is absolutely fair to ask how people think Boise State would do in a BCS league as long as Boise is asking for a piece of that payday. Boise isn't out there saying "We are playing only 1 or 2 real games a season, we're not recruiting the same athletes and not spending as much money on our program, so we won't ask to be invited to a $14 million BCS bowl game." Nope, they want an automatic bid and the money. I understand Boise is who they are and because of circumstances beyond its control cannot simply schedule much better. And, I would not begrudge them an automatic berth and all of the money. I think that's fine. But, I also wouldn't say it is unfair to pose the question or that is a pointless discussion. The discussion has merit and that's why it is a fun topic. Obviously, people share different opinions on this and that's what makes it fun.

No amount of "coaching up" is going to get that level of player to perform at that level week-in and week-out.

I totally agree, as I've pointed out earlier.

 

[Stan The Caddy]

Yes, agreed, but that is what makes this fun!

Now I just hope Boise does not lay an egg on Friday against Nevada and forcing me to eat crow...

I will take my crow with some leftover thanksgiving gravy. What a great game.

 

[Rosemountian]

I think you are underestimating how good Boise State's defense is this year.

I think if they played on a neutral site. Michigan would beat Boise 5/10 times. Northwestern probably 3/10.

Boise State's defense was vastly overrated due to the fact that they haven't played many good offenses this year. This is compounded by the fact that they have played no good defenses this year so the other team is behind and one dimentional.




I am looking forward to Bucky badger running up 40 points on TCU in the Rose Bowl.

 

[Rosemountian]

This thread is full of fail.

The whole "Boise St./TCU vs. BCS conference team X" is pointless, because the former teams have inherent recruiting disadvantages - namely, the fact that they are not in a BCS conference. It's not fair to ask "what would Boise St. do against a Big Ten schedule" because they're not in the Big Ten.

Actually is is perfectly fair to ask. Because it could be used in a discussion whether team A is better than team B.

 

[gopherbadgerman]

I think if they played on a neutral site. Michigan would beat Boise 5/10 times. Northwestern probably 3/10.

Boise State's defense was vastly overrated due to the fact that they haven't played many good offenses this year. This is compounded by the fact that they have played no good defenses this year so the other team is behind and one dimentional.




I am looking forward to Bucky badger running up 40 points on TCU in the Rose Bowl.

No doubt.

40-27 Wisconsin