Blame Continues to Fall Squarely on Gophers Admin

[Spoofin]

We didn't need to hire Claeys when we did and I don't think I'm ridiculous for pointing that out. He may be a good coach we will see but people on this board underrate the attractiveness of this job. Any coach out there knows he'd be taking over good kids with good heads on their shoulders following a coach like Kill. <b>It's no dumpster fire, it's a Big Ten program on fairly solid footing right now.</b>

Didn't you just call this a very dark time?

Also, needed to hire TC for the recruiting class.

 

[beatles]

So Kill is a great coach and you like what he has built but are irate about giving Claeys a shot and adamant that we should roll the dice and start over? You're not making any sense.

Claeys isn't Kill. Kill has a serious track record of head coaching success. Claeys has none. How did it turn out the last time we hired a guy with zero head coaching experience? And I'm not making sense?

 

[Maroon92]

Mason after 4 years:


1997 Minnesota 3–9 1–7
1998 Minnesota 5–6 2–6
1999 Minnesota 8–4 5–3
2000 Minnesota 6–6 4–4
2001 Minnesota 4–7 2–6

Kill after four years:




2011 Minnesota 3–9 2–6
2012 Minnesota 6–7 2–6
2013 Minnesota 8–5 4-4
2014 Minnesota 8–5 5–3
2015 Minnesota 5-7 2-6 (Counting Claeys record)

After 5 years, Kill's record and Mason's are pretty much identical.

what I am most disappointed about is the expectations of many heading into this year was much high than Mason had, Who would have thought are only conference wins would have been against Purdue and Illinois and be dominated by NW, NEb and WI.

 

[RodentRampage]

That's my point though. In those first 5 years, Mason beat the #2 team in the country, finished the season ranked in the top 20, and beat Wisconsin once. Kill/Claeys accomplished none of those things.

Mason was eventually fired because he couldn't do better than that. His 'success' was the floor for future coaches. Now we had to race to extend Claeys/staff based on not having success as good/mediocre as Masons. How does that make sense?

You said "The Gopher program is better than it was under Brewster, but it's not to where it was under Mason." It's pretty much exactly where it was under Mason at this point. Mason was eventually fired, but not after year 5. Kill wasn't going to be fired after this season either. It's a question of whether you think that, despite this season, Kill had the program going in the right direction, and if so, whether Claeys can continue in that direction. If you say yes to both, then it makes sense to hire Claeys sooner rather than later.

 

[GopherGod]

Claeys isn't Kill. Kill has a serious track record of head coaching success. Claeys has none. How did it turn out the last time we hired a guy with zero head coaching experience? And I'm not making sense?

Please list some realistic candidates that would have been interested in this job over the other jobs that are already open?

 

[beatles]

Didn't you just call this a very dark time?

Also, needed to hire TC for the recruiting class.

Nope I didnt say that actually. I said I fear we're entering dark times because of the short sighted hire of Claeys.

And no we didn't need to hire him for recruiting that's just bs. Hiring a head coach is hopefully a very long term decision that will ultimately involve 10-15 recruiting classes and you're worried about losing a handful of guys of one class?

 

[station19]

I agree 100%. Hiring Claeys was a short sighted knee jerk reaction that did not need to be made when it was and it will kill this program's momentum for years. People who think we couldn't have found anyone better after these last 5 years knows nothing about college football. I don't care if we currently have an AD or not that's no excuse. If anything you entice a good head coach applicant by allowing him to have a major say in who we hire as his AD and work it to your advantage. I fear we're entering a very dark time again for Gopher football and it's 100% due to the idots running our University.

Keep your fingers off the keyboard.....you won't sound so stupid.

 

[Dano564]

Yeah, blame the administration and not the guys on the sidelines. If we had a new AD and didn't hire Claeys, we'd have likely finished 4-8 instead of 5-7.

The year before Kill took over they were 2-6 in the Big Ten with wins over Illinois and Iowa.
That's better than 2-6 with wins over Illinois and Purdue.

 

[RodentRampage]

Claeys isn't Kill. Kill has a serious track record of head coaching success. Claeys has none. How did it turn out the last time we hired a guy with zero head coaching experience? And I'm not making sense?

Then we must hire Curtis Johnson, who was recently fired by Tulane. The last time we hired a coach from Tulane, we got Bernie Bierman.

 

[salzie]

Nope I didnt say that actually. I said I fear we're entering dark times because of the short sighted hire of Claeys.

And no we didn't need to hire him for recruiting that's just bs. Hiring a head coach is hopefully a very long term decision that will ultimately involve 10-15 recruiting classes and you're worried about losing a handful of guys of one class?

Lol 10-15

How many coaches get that

 

[Ewert86PC]

I agree 100%. Hiring Claeys was a short sighted knee jerk reaction that did not need to be made when it was and it will kill this program's momentum for years. People who think we couldn't have found anyone better after these last 5 years knows nothing about college football. I don't care if we currently have an AD or not that's no excuse. If anything you entice a good head coach applicant by allowing him to have a major say in who we hire as his AD and work it to your advantage. I fear we're entering a very dark time again for Gopher football and it's 100% due to the idots running our University.

Dark Times? Nothing compares to 1980's Gopher Football.

Shoehorning the program into the Metrodome to kill student support.
Decisions made to give money away from the program.
Hiring ineffective coach after ineffective coach.

Only one of those apply today.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

 

[MGGopher]

The year before Kill took over they were 2-6 in the Big Ten with wins over Illinois and Iowa.
That's better than 2-6 with wins over Illinois and Purdue.

That's true. Last year they were 5-3. That's better than 2-6. Don't get me wrong, this year was a dumpster fire...and I have no idea if Claeys can get this program over the hump. Nobody does. But to argue (like I think you were) that the program is in a similar position as Brew's last year is ludicrous. Injuries, schedule, coach retiring, AD fired...perfect storm of sh!t.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

 

[beatles]

Keep your fingers off the keyboard.....you won't sound so stupid.

I'm right. Look at VTU. They've already got their new coach. I love Claeys as a D coordinator and as a person and he may end up doing great and I hope he succeeds more than anyone here. I'm just saying we could have waited and interviewed several candidates this next week and then decided. It doesn't need to be a long drawn out 3 week process at least not at a school that knows what its doing anyway.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

You said "The Gopher program is better than it was under Brewster, but it's not to where it was under Mason." It's pretty much exactly where it was under Mason at this point. Mason was eventually fired, but not after year 5. Kill wasn't going to be fired after this season either. It's a question of whether you think that, despite this season, Kill had the program going in the right direction, and if so, whether Claeys can continue in that direction. If you say yes to both, then it makes sense to hire Claeys sooner rather than later.

No its not. As I said, Kill never had a win against a top 20 team, never beat Wisconsin, and never finished ranked. Mason did all of those in his first 5 years.

Also Claeys does not equal Kill as a head coach. He was just a good coordinator under Kill.

 

[station19]

I'm right. Look at VTU. They've already got their new coach. I love Claeys as a D coordinator and as a person and he may end up doing great and I hope he succeeds more than anyone here. I'm just saying we could have waited and interviewed several candidates this next week and then decided. It doesn't need to be a long drawn out 3 week process at least not at a school that knows what its doing anyway.

You don't know Claeys will fail and you don't know if anyone could do better. Quit pretending you know everything.

It was a calculated decision and no one KNOWS how it will turn out at this point.

Unless you have information none of us have.

 

[GopherGod]

I'm right. Look at VTU. They've already got their new coach. I love Claeys as a D coordinator and as a person and he may end up doing great and I hope he succeeds more than anyone here. I'm just saying we could have waited and interviewed several candidates this next week and then decided. It doesn't need to be a long drawn out 3 week process at least not at a school that knows what its doing anyway.

VT is a much better job than Minnesota. Also, please list your candidates that would seriously consider Minnesota that you think are clearly better than Claeys

 

[Spoofin]

Nope I didnt say that actually. I said I fear we're entering dark times because of the short sighted hire of Claeys.

And no we didn't need to hire him for recruiting that's just bs. Hiring a head coach is hopefully a very long term decision that will ultimately involve 10-15 recruiting classes and you're worried about losing a handful of guys of one class?

Your first paragraph above is laughable.

Your second paragraph is naive.

Your original post also suggested letting the coach hire the AD.

I stand by my original statement that your post was ridiculous, because it was.

 

[beatles]

VT is a much better job than Minnesota. Also, please list your candidates that would seriously consider Minnesota that you think are clearly better than Claeys

You don't know Claeys will fail and you don't know if anyone could do better. Quit pretending you know everything.

It was a calculated decision and no one KNOWS how it will turn out at this point.

Unless you have information none of us have.

Of course I don't know and never said I did. I'm offering my opinion just like you and everyone else.

 

[50PoundHead]

We found a great coach immediately following Brewster but we can't find a good one following what Kill has built? I don't have nor do I accept the low expectations of my fellow Gopher fans. It's a loser attitude right from the beginning.

I'll admit the jury is out on Claeys, but there is no "what Jerry Kill built" if you bring in a whole new set of coaches. We likely lose half of this recruiting class and a number of guys may transfer. We have a light recruiting year and it's back to square one. Now if you want to hire Les Miles--which would be the longest of long shots--it might be different. I just don't see anyone out there who would be markedly better than Claeys at this juncture. If you want to tear it all down again, have at it because it would all be torn down.

 

[Dano564]

People have this thing as if Kill was a decent coach and thus Claeys should be a good hire, but really... you can't beat WI once?

These aren't dominant Wisconsin teams we're talking about.
My God, they've only beat WI twice since I graduated from college and only once since my oldest child was born.

Is that really good enough??

Anyone else notice that if we beat a good team, their coach gets fired about 75% of the time?

 

[Dano564]

I'll admit the jury is out on Claeys, but there is no "what Jerry Kill built" if you bring in a whole new set of coaches. We likely lose half of this recruiting class and a number of guys may transfer. We have a light recruiting year and it's back to square one. Now if you want to hire Les Miles--which would be the longest of long shots--it might be different. I just don't see anyone out there who would be markedly better than Claeys at this juncture. If you want to tear it all down again, have at it because it would all be torn down.

What is it with everyone thinking a different coach would have caused it to tear it all down? Recruits are staying for Claeys who wouldn't stay for "decent up and coming coach from mid-major or small conference"? Or for "Assistant at top 25 power" newly hired head coach?

Seriously?

 

[saintpaulguy]

Jerry built 2 and 6. So many excuses made back when in the Kent State game, but the signs were there. It wasn't Jerry playing conservatively, it was this team not being that good.

 

[50PoundHead]

What is it with everyone thinking a different coach would have caused it to tear it all down? Recruits are staying for Claeys who wouldn't stay for "decent up and coming coach from mid-major or small conference"? Or for "Assistant at top 25 power" newly hired head coach?

Seriously?

Because guys are recruited as much to a system as they are to a school. And name me a decent up-and-coming coach from a mid-major and if they are going to keep all of the current assistants (likely not). If not, new system. This isn't the old days.

Again, I'm not sold on Claeys (or Goetz), but the deal and the buy-out aren't bad. Illinois just did the same thing.

 

[Spoofin]

Of course I don't know and never said I did. I'm offering my opinion just like you and everyone else.

And, of course, you said anyone who doesn't agree with you "knows nothing about CFB". Yep, just conversing you are.

 

[builtbadgers]

It started with hiring Pat Richter who decided to use his vast football contacts for the feedback that led to Alvarez. Then when Stu Jackson did not work out he relied on the feedback of Al Maguire, Bob Knight, Coach K and they pointed to Bennett. Leadership starts at the top.

 

[beatles]

What is it with everyone thinking a different coach would have caused it to tear it all down? Recruits are staying for Claeys who wouldn't stay for "decent up and coming coach from mid-major or small conference"? Or for "Assistant at top 25 power" newly hired head coach?

Seriously?

Dead on.

 

[50PoundHead]

Jerry built 2 and 6. So many excuses made back when in the Kent State game, but the signs were there. It wasn't Jerry playing conservatively, it was this team not being that good.

I don't want to put too much on Leidner, but when you have a QB like Mitch, you have to play relatively error-free football because he's not going to rescue you with his athleticism. His upside isn't going to balance any appreciable downside. For all his strengths, I think Kill was both too patient (sticks with Leidner) and too impatient (pulls the plug on Nugget). For all his brick-by-brick, I always thought he pulled a few too many red-shirts (although the injuries this year made that a necessity to some extent) and you can't build long-term depth if you keep doing that. I think his overwhelming desire to get to a bowl game his second year here showed a short-term over long-term strategy. I realize this is easy for me to say because I'm not the one coaching for a living and wanting to get established at my new school, but given what he inherited, I thought he should have taken a longer view.

 

[Spoofin]

What is it with everyone thinking a different coach would have caused it to tear it all down? Recruits are staying for Claeys who wouldn't stay for "decent up and coming coach from mid-major or small conference"? Or for "Assistant at top 25 power" newly hired head coach?

Seriously?

Well, if you listen to what the recruits have said in interviews and on social media, then yeah - seriously.

 

[GophersInIowa]

What is it with everyone thinking a different coach would have caused it to tear it all down? Recruits are staying for Claeys who wouldn't stay for "decent up and coming coach from mid-major or small conference"? Or for "Assistant at top 25 power" newly hired head coach?

Seriously?

Recruits develop relationships with coaching staffs, sometimes over several years. As much as we like to think players commit to the school and program, that isn't always the case. More recruits will probably stay with Claeys because many of the same coaches they have gotten to know will still be around.

You're underestimating the value of the relationships the players have with the coaches during the recruiting process.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

Well, if you listen to what the recruits have said in interviews and on social media, then yeah - seriously.

Mistake #1: hiring coaches based on recruits opinions. How many highly recruited players have panned out for the Gophers over the past 10 years? Or better yet, how many top rated recruits from MN have panned out anywhere over the past 10 years?