Blake Cashman runs 4.52 at Combine!

[UpAndUnder43]

A few notable NFL draft analysts on Twitter were discussing Cashman. Some believe he could be one of the top linebackers taken. Not sure where that will land him, but likely Day 2 or early Day 3. Happy for the kid.

 

[RolGnav]

Yeah, I know. Only played in all the games and was 9th in tackles. Fleck never played him.

Really? Seriously? Who said Fleck never played him? I swear most of the time people just get defensive out of no where, read again my friend.

 

[KGF]

He is just trying to troll you. A person can “cheat” the Voltec by not reaching as high for the standing reach. They make get 3-5 extra inches for the jump.
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The NFL scouts don’t let you “cheat”. They force you to release your shoulder up on the pre-jump height measurement, just as you would do to reach the highest point on the jump. At best, you might be able to add an inch by limiting your reach on the pre-test.

 

[KGF]

The Vertec measures the difference between flat footed reach and vertical leaping reach. That means you get the length of your foot included in the difference. No one leaps into the air flat footed.

Yeah, everybody is measured flat footed and jumps plantarflexing their feet, so everybody is measured using the same technique and conditions for jumping. Your point is moot.

The Vertec is a measurement of absolute power. We can’t say relative power b/c the athletes have different heights and weights, but when competing in similar position groups, comparisons and performances can be evaluated. It’s not perfect, but it’s damn good.

 

[Gophers_4life]

Yeah, everybody is measured flat footed and jumps plantarflexing their feet, so everybody is measured using the same technique and conditions for jumping. Your point is moot.

The Vertec is a measurement of absolute power. We can’t say relative power b/c the athletes have different heights and weights, but when competing in similar position groups, comparisons and performances can be evaluated. It’s not perfect, but it’s damn good.

Weight has nothing to do with it. It claims to measure the vertical distance that an athlete can leap, with units of inches. It does not measure power, which have other units.

Height also has nothing to do with it, because each athelete starts from a max flat footed reach. Taller athletes obviously can reach higher up. The difference is what counts.

Your first paragraph boils down to that each athlete can cheat the Vertec in approximately the same way, so the relative measurements are reasonably fair. It’s the absolute numbers that are quite suspect. I would guess they’re inflated by a good 10-15” across the board.

 

[alchemy2u]

Weight has nothing to do with it. It claims to measure the vertical distance that an athlete can leap, with units of inches. It does not measure power, which have other units.

Height also has nothing to do with it, because each athelete starts from a max flat footed reach. Taller athletes obviously can reach higher up. The difference is what counts.

Your first paragraph boils down to that each athlete can cheat the Vertec in approximately the same way, so the relative measurements are reasonably fair. It’s the absolute numbers that are quite suspect. I would guess they’re inflated by a good 10-15” across the board.

The height is related to the power each player can produce. All you need is the height, weight and time. And since the time is controlled by gravity it is directly related to the height. So by having the height and weight you can calculate the work and then the power. What the Vertec does is measure the strength and ability to stretch out which is a skill used in football.


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[ComoGopher]

Blake is a beast. Good to see him kicking butt at the combine.

 

[KGF]

Weight has nothing to do with it. It claims to measure the vertical distance that an athlete can leap, with units of inches. It does not measure power, which have other units.

Height also has nothing to do with it, because each athelete starts from a max flat footed reach. Taller athletes obviously can reach higher up. The difference is what counts.

Your first paragraph boils down to that each athlete can cheat the Vertec in approximately the same way, so the relative measurements are reasonably fair. It’s the absolute numbers that are quite suspect. I would guess they’re inflated by a good 10-15” across the board.

Weight does have to do with it.

Power = Force X Velocity

Force = Mass X acceleration

The Vertec gives scouts a good idea of the vertical power that an athlete can generate. The broad jump gives them a horizontal power measurement.

 

[Gophers_4life]

Weight does have to do with it.

Power = Force X Velocity

Force = Mass X acceleration

The Vertec gives scouts a good idea of the vertical power that an athlete can generate. The broad jump gives them a horizontal power measurement.

The Vertec measures vertical distance. That's it.

Your argument is akin to claiming that a car's speedometer measures its mass.

 

[PitinoFan]

The Vertec measures vertical distance. That's it.

Your argument is akin to claiming that a car's speedometer measures its mass.

What would it take to legitimize the test in your eyes? Call it something different? Use lasers to measure the distant from the ground to their toes? I don’t understand why such a big deal is being made of it, with all due respect.


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[KGF]

The Vertec measures vertical distance. That's it.

Your argument is akin to claiming that a car's speedometer measures its mass.

Would you rather be hit by a 150 lb person running 20 miles per hour or a 2 ton truck at 20 mph?

Tell me 20 mph is equal no matter weight.

 

[march madness]

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/draft-biggest-winners-from-the-2019-scouting-combine


LB Blake Cashman

Cashman wasn’t quite at the level of the Devins, but he wasn’t too far behind. If those two didn’t exist, there’s a good chance Cashman would have been the talk of the combine. His 4.5 40, 37.5” vertical, 10-4 broad jump, 6.95 cone, and 4.12 shuttle are all freakish for the position. Cashman has the production to boot with two seasons with 90.0-plus grades on his resume.

 

[Gophers_4life]

What would it take to legitimize the test in your eyes? Call it something different? Use lasers to measure the distant from the ground to their toes? I don’t understand why such a big deal is being made of it, with all due respect.

It's not a big deal, at all. It is just fine, as a relative measure, particularly when you funnel guys of like body sizes/types into separate groups (ie, position groups).

My small issue with it, is that the absolute numbers it provides are grossly inflated, due to its inferior methods. I would say 10-15" high, across the board.

But it's simple to setup, easy to use, easy to understand. That's why it's widely implemented.

 

[Gophers_4life]

Would you rather be hit by a 150 lb person running 20 miles per hour or a 2 ton truck at 20 mph?

Tell me 20 mph is equal no matter weight.

A 500lbs man who vertical leaps 15", puts more power into the ground than a 185lbs man who vertical leaps 40".

Who do you want as a DB ?

 

[Spoofin]

Would you rather be hit by a 150 lb person running 20 miles per hour or a 2 ton truck at 20 mph?

<b>Tell me 20 mph is equal no matter weight.</b>

OK. 20mph is a measure of velocity. It is absolutely, 100%, independent of weight.


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[KGF]

OK. 20mph is a measure of velocity. It is absolutely, 100%, independent of weight.
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Oh, let me complete the sentence for you then if you didn’t get the point. Tell me 20 mph is equal no matter weight when you are being hit by those two objects of different mass.

 

[KGF]

A 500lbs man who vertical leaps 15", puts more power into the ground than a 185lbs man who vertical leaps 40".

Who do you want as a DB ?

Unless he moved ground, the force is being expressed in the direction he moves.

But your example points out the reason that offensive lineman don’t typically jump as high as DBs or WRs. OLs have more mass to move. So if a OL had a 30 inch vertical and a DB had a 30 inch vertical, the OL would be considered more powerful than that DB as an athlete b/c weight matters in producing force.

 

[Word]

Would you rather be hit by a 150 lb person running 20 miles per hour or a 2 ton truck at 20 mph?

Tell me 20 mph is equal no matter weight.

You are talking about momentum. Mass x velocity
So, in your example you are correct they wouldn't have the same momentum, but they would have the same velocity.

 

[Gophers_4life]

Unless he moved ground, the force is being expressed in the direction he moves.

It's a reference to Newton's third law of motion.

the OL would be considered more powerful than that DB as an athlete b/c weight matters in producing force.

And the Vertec doesn't measure force (Newtons), work (Joules), or power (Watts). It measures distance (inches).

 

[zman]

OK. 20mph is a measure of velocity. It is absolutely, 100%, independent of weight.

Well, technically it's a measure of speed. But that's probably a little geeky for most here.

 

[KGF]

It's a reference to Newton's third law of motion.



And the Vertec doesn't measure force (Newtons), work (Joules), or power (Watts). It measures distance (inches).

That is true. But by comparing players of similar size and positions, scouts can get a very good idea of how powerful an athlete is without the precision of science.

 

[PMWinSTP]

Would you rather be hit by a 150 lb person running 20 miles per hour or a 2 ton truck at 20 mph?

Tell me 20 mph is equal no matter weight.

It is...inertia of the object moving on being moved is effected by weight.

 

[Gophers_4life]

That is true. But by comparing players of similar size and positions, scouts can get a very good idea of how powerful an athlete is without the precision of science.

Maybe. Back to my original point: the absolute measurement (in inches) provided by the Vertec, is inflated. But as a relative measure (between players of a position group), it is just fine.

 

[Word]

Maybe. Back to my original point: the absolute measurement (in inches) provided by the Vertec, is inflated. But as a relative measure (between players of a position group), it is just fine.

So why are you so worked up about it?

 

[KGF]

You are talking about momentum. Mass x velocity
So, in your example you are correct they wouldn't have the same momentum, but they would have the same velocity.

Yeah, I agree. I wasn’t arguing that 20 mph isn’t equal to 20 mph for different things.

 

[Gophers_4life]

So why are you so worked up about it?

I'm not. I'm simply posting about a minor thing. That is allowed.

 

[KGF]

You are talking about momentum. Mass x velocity
So, in your example you are correct they wouldn't have the same momentum, but they would have the same velocity.

If there’s a point of criticism for my comments, use of the term “momentum” instead of “power” would be it. Coaches/scouts use the term “power” to describe what is really momentum. I’m guilty.

 

[KGF]

On a more productive point, Cashman’s performance at the combine was outstanding. However, how he plays on the field (on film) will be the most critical factor for being drafted and how high.

He is undersized, but there are guys with his kind of exceptional speed that make an NFL living on special teams. Regardless of whether he becomes a regular at LB, he has a great opportunity to make it as a special teams player.

 

[Urbandale]

He is undersized, but there are guys with his kind of exceptional speed that make an NFL living on special teams. Regardless of whether he becomes a regular at LB, he has a great opportunity to make it as a special teams player.

However, the great devaluation of special teams has already begun, and it's not going to stop. Only a fraction of kickoffs and punts are returned in today's game, which renders impotent the players on both the return and coverage teams.

 

[Gophers_4life]

However, the great devaluation of special teams has already begun, and it's not going to stop. Only a fraction of kickoffs and punts are returned in today's game, which renders impotent the players on both the return and coverage teams.

NFL rosters are only 53. That's not much more over a two-deep. A lot of those Kickoff/Return guys are the first backups. So I don't think that will prevent people from making the same squads, unless they decrease the roster size.