Big Ten West After Week 9

[Some guy]

I know you know this, but you can’t do that

No you cant

but in 5 of their games they’ve been a good defense, not a great defense

 

[fmlizard]

Love how you roll out “stats” to try and prove a point about Mertz but ignore stats and agree that Minnesota’s offense is ”clearly better and it’s not even close” when the stats say otherwise. Congrats on that extra 17 yards of offense you get per game.

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Wow I had no idea Iowa was so deeply last place in offense. Hard to win like that. They were floating on unsustainable turnover luck. More losses to come for them, including their pig.

 

[Dave H]

Gonna be the same old story in the end. Lose to uw and IA, uw goes to the championship like always.

What's the matter Jupiter suspend you again?

 

[salzie]

You agreed with the poster who said Minnesotas offense is clearly better than Wisconsin’s and it wasn’t even close. If you consider 17 yards that big of a gap I hate to tell how bad Minnesota’s defense must be compared to Wisconsin

Well we score 7 more points per game and turn the ball over less

 

[salzie]

Agree with you here saying that Minnesota’s offense has been better than Wisconsin’s. My disagreement is with the idea that it is not even close

Did you used to post on the hoop?

 

[I'm A Maroon 2!]

The only way to accurately compare offenses is vs teams both have played. It's really a waste of time anyways. Each game has it's differences and game plans on who to stop. I know it's "fun" to show who is better, but ultimately Wisconsin could be average and look better vs Minnesotas defense and Minnesota could be good and look terrible vs Wisconsins defense. Yet, Minnesota still could be the better offense, Wisconsin just isnt going against their own top 3 defense in the country.

 

[MplsGopher]

Well, it depends on exactly what it is you're proposing.

— I know you dislike the idea of 2 division winners (with 2 trophies), but I believe you're in a minority (perhaps even a minority of one) on that issue. I know I myself really like two divisions with 2 division winners playing for the championship.

— In your new model, how would the scheduling work, from year to year? Would rivalries be preserved? Would Minnesota still play Iowa, Wisconsin, Nebraska, Purdue every season? If not, those rivalries might be lost. That would be a shame, especially the two border rivalries.

Maybe you should lay out your plan in detail so that we can see exactly what you have in mind.

You're right, I made the post starting from a place that was actually in a different thread, and didn't describe it here.

The proposal (supposedly being considered by the Big Ten, as an option) goes roughly like:

- no divisions
- drop down to 8 conf games, so 4 non-conf games, per year (this matches the SEC and ACC now)
- every team plays 3 fixed rivalry games every year, leaving 5 conf games left per year
- that's then 10 remaining Big Ten teams (yourself + the 3 rivals = 14), and so you can play all 10 of those home/away every four years
- I assume they would have simple criteria for selecting which two teams go to the conf championship game, and likely being the top two ranked teams in the CFP rankings (with tie-breakers, etc. etc.)



There is nothing special or ideal about divisions, or why they were created. It was just a thing that was cooked up by the SEC in the early 90's, because they were the first conference to expand to a point where it wasn't possible to play a full round-robin. So they reasoned that "you cut the conf in half, each half plays a round-robin against its own half, and then the 'winners' of each half meet in a championship game". The NCAA then agreed to carve out a special exemption for such games, allowing them to be separate from the regular season.

It wasn't until after TV started really paying out big $$$ that every conference realized "hey, we should have one of those, to make even more money!"



That's it. That's the history of divisions.



You can't honestly tell me that the Big Ten got it wrong all the years from when Penn St was added until the season before Nebraska was added, but when Neb was added and we split into divisions, then that was finally the right thing?

No, I reject that. It was nothing more than a money grab. And of course, they got the divisions wrong initially. Absurdly so.


Even with that, I'm not calling for an end to the conf championship games. Just an end to divisions.

 

[salzie]

The only way to accurately compare offenses is vs teams both have played. It's really a waste of time anyways. Each game has it's differences and game plans on who to stop. I know it's "fun" to show who is better, but ultimately Wisconsin could be average and look better vs Minnesotas defense and Minnesota could be good and look terrible vs Wisconsins defense. Yet, Minnesota still could be the better offense, Wisconsin just isnt going against their own top 3 defense in the country.

I'm not a buyer in transitive comparisons

Minnesota has a higher scoring offense, turns the ball over less, and has slight advantage in yards. Most would say that is "better"

Wisconsin has a better defense than MN.

but as we all know, it'll be decided on the the field

 

[FanSinceTheFifties]

I agree. The question will come down to this: can Minnesota's run-heavy offense continue to excel against Iowa's and Wisconsin's defenses?

I think our passing game has at least a bit more potential to pick up the slack than Iowa'a passing game or Wisconsin's, should the run game falter.

Speaking of passing, what's become of Dylan Wright? Wasn't Fleck touting him as a star early this season? Is it just that we're passing less or that other receivers have taken the spotlight? Wright looked pretty good early.

 

[MNVCGUY]

I'm not a buyer in transitive comparisons

Minnesota has a higher scoring offense, turns the ball over less, and has slight advantage in yards. Most would say that is "better"

Wisconsin has a better defense than MN.

but as we all know, it'll be decided on the the field

yeah, the transitive thing never works because every game is so different. A turnover here or there can drastically shift the way teams play on any given Saturday.

Minnesota and Wisconsin have both shown they can run the ball. Neither team passes a ton but when they do Minnesota has looked significantly better than Wisconsin. Mertz has 9 picks and 4 TD on the season, that is really really bad.

Defensively, Wisconsin is playing out of their minds on defense and looks really really strong on that side of the ball. Minnesota is not playing at nearly the same level but the Minnesota defense is also playing really well and keeping teams off the scoreboard.

In the end though, it is a rivalry game, so all that other crap goes out the window anyway. I expect it to be a battle and one the Gophers hopefully come out on the winning side of.

 

[MNVCGUY]

Speaking of passing, what's become of Dylan Wright? Wasn't Fleck touting him as a star early this season? Is it just that we're passing less or that other receivers have taken the spotlight? Wright looked pretty good early.

MBS has emerged in recent weeks and Wright has had a few drops. Wright is still very young and is really just now getting his first playing time at the college level this year. He will be very good, but has some things to work on.

 

[MplsGopher]

MBS has emerged in recent weeks and Wright has had a few drops. Wright is still very young and is really just now getting his first playing time at the college level this year. He will be very good, but has some things to work on.

Huh. He had a great game vs Ohio St.

 

[noamfromm]

Speaking of passing, what's become of Dylan Wright? Wasn't Fleck touting him as a star early this season? Is it just that we're passing less or that other receivers have taken the spotlight? Wright looked pretty good early.

If don't know if there is a place to see targets for free -- but without the numbers I would say that that its a function of lack of attempts and MBS22 playing better as the year has gone on. Wright has averaged ~2 catches in his last four game and we've averaged ~17 attempts over those 4 games.

 

[MNVCGUY]

Huh. He had a great game vs Ohio St.

He was also very good against Miami OH but he has struggled in other games and has been dealing with some tragedy in his personal life as well.

Easy to see that Wright is very talented but he is still very raw. If he puts in the work he could be a massive part of the offense next year and still be a factor over the remainder of this season as well.

 

[RememberMurray]

You're right, I made the post starting from a place that was actually in a different thread, and didn't describe it here.

The proposal (supposedly being considered by the Big Ten, as an option) goes roughly like:

- no divisions
- drop down to 8 conf games, so 4 non-conf games, per year (this matches the SEC and ACC now)
- every team plays 3 fixed rivalry games every year, leaving 5 conf games left per year
- that's then 10 remaining Big Ten teams (yourself + the 3 rivals = 14), and so you can play all 10 of those home/away every four years
- I assume they would have simple criteria for selecting which two teams go to the conf championship game, and likely being the top two ranked teams in the CFP rankings (with tie-breakers, etc. etc.)



There is nothing special or ideal about divisions, or why they were created. It was just a thing that was cooked up by the SEC in the early 90's, because they were the first conference to expand to a point where it wasn't possible to play a full round-robin. So they reasoned that "you cut the conf in half, each half plays a round-robin against its own half, and then the 'winners' of each half meet in a championship game". The NCAA then agreed to carve out a special exemption for such games, allowing them to be separate from the regular season.

It wasn't until after TV started really paying out big $$$ that every conference realized "hey, we should have one of those, to make even more money!"



That's it. That's the history of divisions.



You can't honestly tell me that the Big Ten got it wrong all the years from when Penn St was added until the season before Nebraska was added, but when Neb was added and we split into divisions, then that was finally the right thing?

No, I reject that. It was nothing more than a money grab. And of course, they got the divisions wrong initially. Absurdly so.


Even with that, I'm not calling for an end to the conf championship games. Just an end to divisions.

Thanks for explaining. Now I see what is being proposed.

Two more questions: As you see it, what is/are the problem(s) with the current divisions format, and how would this proposal fix the problem(s)?

 

[GVBadger]

yeah, the transitive thing never works because every game is so different. A turnover here or there can drastically shift the way teams play on any given Saturday.

Minnesota and Wisconsin have both shown they can run the ball. Neither team passes a ton but when they do Minnesota has looked significantly better than Wisconsin. Mertz has 9 picks and 4 TD on the season, that is really really bad.

Defensively, Wisconsin is playing out of their minds on defense and looks really really strong on that side of the ball. Minnesota is not playing at nearly the same level but the Minnesota defense is also playing really well and keeping teams off the scoreboard.

In the end though, it is a rivalry game, so all that other crap goes out the window anyway. I expect it to be a battle and one the Gophers hopefully come out on the winning side of.

I am very interested to see how well the Gophers can run the ball against Wisconsin. Obviously the Gophers run the ball really well, but the Badgers run defense is outstanding.
It will be fun to see how it plays out.

All I can say about the offense is it is getting better. Hopefully with three more games under their belt they will have their best game November 30th.

Let’s both win out from here and play for the West in 4 weeks. That would be awesome.

 

[Xerxes_]

Iowa's offense has looked inept before and they've turned it around to get more than enough out of it to beat Minnesota many times before. That staff hates Fleck and going back through Ferentz's tenure they've made a point to have something special for Minnesota. Minnesota hasn't won a game between these two teams where both had something significant to play for in terms of rankings/bowl priority/etc in Ferentz's tenure. The only way to guarantee a trip to Indy as of now is to win both rivalry games...can that finally happen? Lord knows Minnesota has found a way to lose both many, many times. Outside of doing that, Minnesota will need somebody else to beat the rival that they lose to. I was disappointed Nebraksa lost to Purdue for this very reason. Minnesota needs them engaged and motivated as they are probably the team with the best chance to help them out in terms of winning the West.

Posters make very valid critique's of both Iowa and Wisconsin, but until I see Minnesota actually come out and be the more motivated/physical/prepared team in these rivarly games I am personally going to be dreading them.

No reason to dread playing Iowa. This is beyond doubt the worst OL they've had since 2000. And their QB is the worst they've had since 2007.

Minnesota's backup OTs and QB would start at Iowa.

If the Gophers can't beat them this year with nearly an entire starting lineup of SRs and 5th year SRs, the Gophers simply aren't very good and there is no reason to get worried or worked up one way or the other.

 

[Gopher Fitz]

Yes our run offense can continue to excel. But we won't dominate Hawk and Becky without well-timed passing to keep them spread out. I think Fleck has been sneakily building toward that.

Not just adding the pass back into the offense but ensuring that Morgan keeps the ball on occasion to keep the ends and linebackers honest for the RPO. I love this and I hope they continue working to keep their offense unpredictable.... no vanilla sh*t versus illinois please