Big Ten Turnarounds

[Goldy223123]

After watching another Gopher football season in embarassment I was curioius how long it took other Big Ten coaches to turn around some perennial losing programs and here is what I found:

IOWA - Hired Hayden Fry after 16 losing seasons and went to the Rose Bowl in his third year 1991 with a record of 8-4. He was 5-6 and 4-7 his first two years.

WISCONSIN - After several losing seasons hired Barry Alvarez in 1990 and were in the Rose Bowl in his fourth year with a 10-1-1 record. He was 1-10, 5-6 and 4-7 in his first three years.

NORTHWESTERN - After DECADES of football that were worse than us hired Gary Barnett in 1992 and was in the Rose Bowl in his fourth season with a 10-2 record. Went 3-8, 2-9 and 4-6 in his first three years.

PURDUE - After not being in the Rose Bowl since 1967 hired Joe Tiller in 1997 and went to the Rose Bowl in his fourth season with a record of 8-4. He was 9-3, 9-4 and 7-5 in his first three seasons.

Iowa, Wisconsin and Northwestern were in bad shape when these coaches took over. Brewster inherited a 6-6 program. Those sames schools had dramatic turnarounds in years 3 (Iowa) and 4 (Wisconsin and Northwestern). With a less than high school effective offense and losing seven starters on defense I don't see any type of turn around coming our way. IMHO Brewster has had his chance to make his turnaround. We deserve a coach who can be as successful as the four mentioned above!

 

[magpie]

1) That's more money than the U likes to spend.

2) There's no reasonable coach available at the moment with those credentials.

3) If you consider Brew's first year was a wash due to offensive scheme change, it's more or less his 2-2 1/2 year mark now. Most of the coaches you named had 4 years. 2 years from now we have quite a favorable schedule.

 

[Plinnius]

Brewster inherited a 6-6 program.

Didn't that 6-6 team lose all of it's best players to graduation and crime?

 

[Weddings and Steak Frys]

Look at Kirk Ferentz at Iowa, he inherited a program from Hayden Fry similar to what Brew inherited from Glen Mason. Decent records against weak schedules and lost lots of kids off the old coaches last team. Fry's last three teams went 9-3, 7-5 and 3-8. I would submit that that is certainly no worse than what Brewster inherited considering that Mason's last team lost its best players and required a miracle win over NDSU to make it to 6-6. Ferentz's first 4 years at Iowa posted records of 1-10, 3-9, 7-5 before breaking through with a record of 11-2 in his 4th season. I recall a lot of Hawkeye fans at the time making the same arguments as we are making today regarding their coach. Not saying that Brewster is the equal of Kirk Ferentz, whom I consider the hands down best coach in the Big Ten, but the point is that three seasons is not a reasonable timeframe to pass judgment. Give Brewster another year before leaping to conclusions. Of course, that wouldn't fit your hypothosis since you obviously want Brewster gone, which is why I'm sure you so conveniently left that example out. Further, I'd argue that our situation with no fanbase and a lack of our own field for 20+ years added to the lack of administrative support and a coach who basically quit on the program when he missed out on his dream job put us in very comparable situations to Iowa pre-Fry, Wisconsin pre-Barry and Purdue pre-Tiller. The only program that you could say was categorically worse was Northwestern pre-Barnett.

 

[MBAGuy]

Look at Kirk Ferentz at Iowa, he inherited a program from Hayden Fry similar to what Brew inherited from Glen Mason. Decent records against weak schedules and lost lots of kids off the old coaches last team. Fry's last three teams went 9-3, 7-5 and 3-8. I would submit that that is certainly no worse than what Brewster inherited considering that Mason's last team lost its best players and required a miracle win over NDSU to make it to 6-6. Ferentz's first 4 years at Iowa posted records of 1-10, 3-9, 7-5 before breaking through with a record of 11-2 in his 4th season. I recall a lot of Hawkeye fans at the time making the same arguments as we are making today regarding their coach. Not saying that Brewster is the equal of Kirk Ferentz, whom I consider the hands down best coach in the Big Ten, but the point is that three seasons is not a reasonable timeframe to pass judgment. Give Brewster another year before leaping to conclusions. Of course, that wouldn't fit your hypothosis since you obviously want Brewster gone, which is why I'm sure you so conveniently left that example out. Further, I'd argue that our situation with no fanbase and a lack of our own field for 20+ years added to the lack of administrative support and a coach who basically quit on the program when he missed out on his dream job put us in very comparable situations to Iowa pre-Fry, Wisconsin pre-Barry and Purdue pre-Tiller. The only program that you could say was categorically worse was Northwestern pre-Barnett.

+1

Welcome to the Hole. You're my favorite "new" poster.

 

[Goldy223123]

I, like all Minnesota fans, want to go to the Rose Bowl. It would be great if Brewster is the one to get us there. I made the point it took Wisconsin and Northwestern four years because I hope he does it in his fourth year. I am just not optimistic. The teams performance the second half of the year in his third year doesn't allow me to be optimitic. His offense is a mess, his defense next year is totally unproven. The schedule is tough. Besides blind optimism it doesn't look good!

 

[ust4life]

After watching another Gopher football season in embarassment I was curioius how long it took other Big Ten coaches to turn around some perennial losing programs and here is what I found:

IOWA - Hired Hayden Fry after 16 losing seasons and went to the Rose Bowl in his third year 1991 with a record of 8-4. He was 5-6 and 4-7 his first two years.

WISCONSIN - After several losing seasons hired Barry Alvarez in 1990 and were in the Rose Bowl in his fourth year with a 10-1-1 record. He was 1-10, 5-6 and 4-7 in his first three years.

NORTHWESTERN - After DECADES of football that were worse than us hired Gary Barnett in 1992 and was in the Rose Bowl in his fourth season with a 10-2 record. Went 3-8, 2-9 and 4-6 in his first three years.

PURDUE - After not being in the Rose Bowl since 1967 hired Joe Tiller in 1997 and went to the Rose Bowl in his fourth season with a record of 8-4. He was 9-3, 9-4 and 7-5 in his first three seasons.

Iowa, Wisconsin and Northwestern were in bad shape when these coaches took over. Brewster inherited a 6-6 program. Those sames schools had dramatic turnarounds in years 3 (Iowa) and 4 (Wisconsin and Northwestern). With a less than high school effective offense and losing seven starters on defense I don't see any type of turn around coming our way. IMHO Brewster has had his chance to make his turnaround. We deserve a coach who can be as successful as the four mentioned above!

If you're using the Gophers record the year before Brew took over to represent the quality of team he inherited, you don't know squat about college football. That 6-6 team of Mason's last season lost nearly ALL of their quality players. The cupboard was virtually bare when Brew came in...Throw in the fact that the Gophs lost a significant number of recruits when they canned Mason, Brew had two weeks to pull together a recruiting class...How many people remember that MSU MLB Greg Jones was a gopher commit and then left after Mason was canned? How much could we have used him this year? The point of my ramblings is that there is no way you can look at the Gophs 6-6 record and use that to represent the quality of team Brew inherited. Get a clue buddy.

 

[mplsbadger]

WISCONSIN - After several losing seasons hired Barry Alvarez in 1990 and were in the Rose Bowl in his fourth year with a 10-1-1 record. He was 1-10, 5-6 and 4-7 in his first three years.

Badgers were 5-6 in year three , not 4-7. I remember becasue I was at loss number 6, at Northwestern, (which prevented a bowl bid), when UW fumbled driving for the winning score (sound familiar?). It made the Rose Bowl that much sweeter the following year.

Maybe the Gray fumble will be followed by good things for the U...

 

[bankonit]

you need to look at Tim Brewster and the Gopher football program as if Tim Brewster was building a football program from scratch, like we never had one before. It was THAT bad when Tim Brewster took over. The previous regimes players were horse crap and the losing mentality has been set in for decades, Tim Brewster has to rebuild all of that, and in the National scope he has done that. It just takes the "casual" fan and the local media more time to figure that out. You can't expect to be dominate once again in just 3 years of a building project, Coach Brewtser is putting all of the pieces in place for a 2011 run. Recruits believe it, College football experts believe it, and the current players believe it.

 

[GopherFish]

you need to look at Tim Brewster and the Gopher football program as if Tim Brewster was building a football program from scratch, like we never had one before. It was THAT bad when Tim Brewster took over. The previous regimes players were horse crap and the losing mentality has been set in for decades, Tim Brewster has to rebuild all of that, and in the National scope he has done that. It just takes the "casual" fan and the local media more time to figure that out. You can't expect to be dominate once again in just 3 years of a building project, Coach Brewtser is putting all of the pieces in place for a 2011 run. Recruits believe it, College football experts believe it, and the current players believe it.

Building it from scratch? You must be brain dead if you think that having Erik Decker, Will Van DeSteg, Lee Campbell, Nate Triplett, Ernie Wheelright, Amir Pinnix, Dominique Barber, Deon Hightower, Nick Tow-Arnett, Duane Bennett is starting from scratch. You have to be a horrible coach to let so much talent turn into a one win NCAA joke.

 

[GopherGod]

you need to look at Tim Brewster and the Gopher football program as if Tim Brewster was building a football program from scratch, like we never had one before. It was THAT bad when Tim Brewster took over. The previous regimes players were horse crap and the losing mentality has been set in for decades, Tim Brewster has to rebuild all of that, and in the National scope he has done that. It just takes the "casual" fan and the local media more time to figure that out. You can't expect to be dominate once again in just 3 years of a building project, Coach Brewtser is putting all of the pieces in place for a 2011 run. Recruits believe it, College football experts believe it, and the current players believe it.

Please it was not that bad and you know it. Brewster didn't have to build a program from scratch like a Jim Leavitt and th program had some moderate success before so it wasn't as if they had the losing attitude of no win seasons. Also, what national experts even care or talk about Brewster anymore other than to mock his program(i.e. Herbstreit)

 

[NewBerlinBucky]

After watching another Gopher football season in embarassment I was curioius how long it took other Big Ten coaches to turn around some perennial losing programs and here is what I found:

IOWA - Hired Hayden Fry after 16 losing seasons and went to the Rose Bowl in his third year 1991 with a record of 8-4. He was 5-6 and 4-7 his first two years.

WISCONSIN - After several losing seasons hired Barry Alvarez in 1990 and were in the Rose Bowl in his fourth year with a 10-1-1 record. He was 1-10, 5-6 and 4-7 in his first three years.

NORTHWESTERN - After DECADES of football that were worse than us hired Gary Barnett in 1992 and was in the Rose Bowl in his fourth season with a 10-2 record. Went 3-8, 2-9 and 4-6 in his first three years.

PURDUE - After not being in the Rose Bowl since 1967 hired Joe Tiller in 1997 and went to the Rose Bowl in his fourth season with a record of 8-4. He was 9-3, 9-4 and 7-5 in his first three seasons.

Iowa, Wisconsin and Northwestern were in bad shape when these coaches took over. Brewster inherited a 6-6 program. Those sames schools had dramatic turnarounds in years 3 (Iowa) and 4 (Wisconsin and Northwestern). With a less than high school effective offense and losing seven starters on defense I don't see any type of turn around coming our way. IMHO Brewster has had his chance to make his turnaround. We deserve a coach who can be as successful as the four mentioned above!

Personally, I think your points of comparison are very fair and objective. I'm kind of surprised at the number of people that want to believe that Brewster's situation was more dire than the examples you provided.

Don't get me wrong... I'm thrilled that people want to give him a longer leash. I just haven't seen the signs of improvement that a number of you have. In the case of Alvarez, you could see noticeable improvements in blocking, tackling, and most certainly.... in overall team defense.

 

[Rotundo]

Very few people want to continue with Brewster. Just about every Gopher fan I know acknowledges that after another crap season we will be looking for a new head coach in 2010. He just isn't a head coach.

 

[Ski U Mah Gopher]

Building it from scratch? You must be brain dead if you think that having Erik Decker, Will Van DeSteg, Lee Campbell, Nate Triplett, Ernie Wheelright, Amir Pinnix, Dominique Barber, Deon Hightower, Nick Tow-Arnett, Duane Bennett is starting from scratch. You have to be a horrible coach to let so much talent turn into a one win NCAA joke.

Remember, Willie played 1-handed Brewster's 1st year, and Pinnix was hurt.

It was a new offense run by a freshman...

 

[PlayHosea]

Building it from scratch? You must be brain dead if you think that having Erik Decker, Will Van DeSteg, Lee Campbell, Nate Triplett, Ernie Wheelright, Amir Pinnix, Dominique Barber, Deon Hightower, Nick Tow-Arnett, Duane Bennett is starting from scratch. You have to be a horrible coach to let so much talent turn into a one win NCAA joke.

Sorry slick, but Tow-Arnett and Triplett weren't top of the line Big Ten players when Brewster took over. Hightower was an undersized linebacker who wouldn't have seen the field on this year's defense. Lee Campbell. Hell of a player. After they fixed Mason's mistake and made him the MLB.

 

[Monty519]

The thing is, before a turnaround, you are going to be average until the next group of players that the new coach brings in really come into their own. For the Gophers, this should begin to take place next season as the crop of players Brewster brought in begin to start taking their places as some of the leaders of this team. When a coach comes into a program and has to use guys he didn't bring in, and don't fit his philosophy, you don't even necessarily expect to go to bowl games, as Michigan is now finding out. Yet, Brewster has at least managed to get this team to two of them. It hasn't been overwhelming success or anything, but to his credit, he has actually handled a coaching transition better than many other coaches would have, and even has taken on a tough schedule in the process. Taking over a football program can take 4 or 5 years, and the time during that turnover is not always easy. Mistakes have been made along the way, obviously, and opportunities have been lost on the field, and there have been goof ups off the field, but the fact is, we're still better off now than we were when the last regime left and to this point, that is really all you can judge the man on right now.

 

[bankonit]

Building it from scratch? You must be brain dead if you think that having Erik Decker, Will Van DeSteg, Lee Campbell, Nate Triplett, Ernie Wheelright, Amir Pinnix, Dominique Barber, Deon Hightower, Nick Tow-Arnett, Duane Bennett is starting from scratch. You have to be a horrible coach to let so much talent turn into a one win NCAA joke.

So much talent? Who else offered these guys? Tow-Arnett was a walk on, it took Triplett 5 years to earn a starting job. You have to be blind to think these guys were more than a one win NCAA joke

 

[GVBadger]

Here is the thing, nobody can see the turnaround coming. Anyone that says they can is a liar.

I guarantee you nobody predicted the Badgers would go to the Rose Bowl after the '93 season. Nobody. They had come off two 5-6 seasons, would they get to a bowl? Sure. Have a winning season? Probably. Blow a chance at the National Championship by losing to Minnesota? No way.

It just happens. The team gets on a roll, they are well coached and presto, you win the Big Ten. For all the talk about recruiting on this board, nobody in the conference, including Minnesota is ever going to out recruit Penn State, Michigan or Ohio State. They just aren't. So you have to recruit kids to your system, coach the heck out of them and beat them on the field. It can be done, but everything has to come together.

It can happen at Minnesota, it has happened everywhere else. The question is whether Brewster is the man that can make it happen. The jury is still out.

I can guarantee one thing, the Gophers are never going to go into a season preditcted to win the Big Ten, until they actually do it. Even then, they probably won't be predicted to do it. There is just to much talent in the conference. It is not going to be something that will be expected by anyone except those in the locker room. You have to work harder, prepare better and outplay some really good teams to do it.

The great thing is that when it happens, it is a heck of a ride.

 

[MBAGuy]

Here is the thing, nobody can see the turnaround coming. Anyone that says they can is a liar.

I guarantee you nobody predicted the Badgers would go to the Rose Bowl after the '93 season. Nobody. They had come off two 5-6 seasons, would they get to a bowl? Sure. Have a winning season? Probably. Blow a chance at the National Championship by losing to Minnesota? No way.

It just happens. The team gets on a roll, they are well coached and presto, you win the Big Ten. For all the talk about recruiting on this board, nobody in the conference, including Minnesota is ever going to out recruit Penn State, Michigan or Ohio State. They just aren't. So you have to recruit kids to your system, coach the heck out of them and beat them on the field. It can be done, but everything has to come together.

It can happen at Minnesota, it has happened everywhere else. The question is whether Brewster is the man that can make it happen. The jury is still out.

I can guarantee one thing, the Gophers are never going to go into a season preditcted to win the Big Ten, until they actually do it. Even then, they probably won't be predicted to do it. There is just to much talent in the conference. It is not going to be something that will be expected by anyone except those in the locker room. You have to work harder, prepare better and outplay some really good teams to do it.

The great thing is that when it happens, it is a heck of a ride.

Wow. Seriously, a great post. Actually gave me that little "excited" feeling in the pit of my stomach.

The last sentence is why I insist on sticking by all of my lovable loser teams.

 

[Great Plains Gopher]

I like the improvements on defense and the kicking game and the fact we don't collapse in second halves but often make gritty comebacks. But I am baffled at the lack of offense (113th of 120 1A teams, 11th in the conference, etc.). Offense has been awful for three years and the first year's record, 1-11, was the worst in Gopher history. That year, in the opening game (Bowling Green?) the Gopher offense was absolutely the worst, the most amateur, I had ever seen, over five decades of following the Gophers. I couldn't believe it. Offense may be the key to whether next year is Brew's last.

 

[TAW]

Brewster's biggest problem, to this point, is he lets his mouth say things his teams can't match. He should have come in and said something like "I know it will take time to put in a new system, but I will recruit guys who want to play for Minnesota and want to fill that trophy case. All I ask of you is that you have patience and support the team in the stands."

Instead, he talks and talks and exaggerates and comes off as a goofy incompetent. Maybe he isn't, but no one has seen anything yet to counteract that image.

GV is right, nothing is better than the San Gabriel Mountains on January 1 after years of being irrelevent in the Big 10. I hope you all experiience that some day.

Edited for punctuation error.

 

[lakesgopher]

pretty sick of all the timelines and what not. no program is the same, no situation is the same. if we go into every new hire with a timeline im willing to bet minny will never be successful