Big Ten Discussing Removing Divisions

[Gophers_4life]

Other solution is to go divisionless.

Currently NCAA rules say to play divisionless championship games you have to play round robin. Which makes sense. If you play a 9 game schedule in a 14 team league you could get 3-4 teams unbeaten in conference play. Then who do you pick? Highest in the polls? I’m not down creating a structure that gives Ohio State and Michigan bigger advantages than they already have.

Right, so unless the rules change then it’s only possible to go divisionless if you scrap the championship game. That’s what the Big 12 just did for several years, and just got out of that business, because they felt it was keeping them out of he playoff.

 

[Gophers_4life]

Just move Michigan to the West and problem solved. We all know that is what the end goal is, they want Michigan vs. Ohio State in the Big Ten championship game.

That doesn’t work because Mich-Ohio State will always be played the week right before he championship game. NOBODY wants an immediate repeat/rematch. People hate those. Would be terrible for both programs and the Big Ten.

We already had Michigan playing in the West in the last divisions, and it didn’t work.

 

[Gophers_4life]

Honestly and truly ... there is no answer here, except to build in an auto-bid to the playoff for the Big Ten champ. That’s the only real winner.

 

[GVBadger]

Unless you think Urban had nothing to do with how good OSU has been, they can can't conceivably be as dominant as they have been in the last 6 years. They will certainly still be very good, but the guy was the master. Whiff on one QB and you can quickly move back to the pack.

There is no way you can do a schedule that is fair if you don't have divisions. Of course, nobody ever said college football was fair. A rematch of Michigan and OSU the next week would be horrible.

 

[1983]

First off these are the same people that created Big Ten hockey, a complete failure. Are we going to go to d&&k measuring now to determine the BIG champion? The good ole boys club, politics and money only? Helmet schools only? Not interested. It would be like the NFL ending the season at 16 games and picking two teams to play the Super bowl, all based on how many people they think will watch.

 

[Iceland12]

The below wasn't bad expect for the names. It's what they first came up with when Nebraska joined. Rather than worry about it just have the ACC and the SEC play 9 Conference games.

Illinois, Indiana, Ohio State, Penn State, Purdue and Wisconsin will be in the Leaders Division, with Iowa, Michigan, Michigan State, Minnesota, Nebraska and Northwestern in the Legends Division.

 

[Golden Elephant]

A few things:
1. OSU beating Mich again wouldn't have gotten them into the playoff, so that's just dumb of Delany & co if they think that.

2. Doing away with divisions would make a more chaotic, unfair race to the championship game. Right now, each division member plays the other 6 and then there's 3 crossover games. So yes, it can be unfair if someone has to play OSU, Mich, PSU and someone else is Rutgers, MD, Indy, but I doubt they let those be the crossovers for anyone - almost always (always?), you get 1 or 2 from the better teams and 1 or 2 from the worse. And, you always get to play everyone head-to-head that you're competing against. Going to one big conference where you play 9 of 13 teams would mean you could (likely would) be competing against someone who had a very different strength of schedule, and who you might not have even played.

3. Delany only cares about $$$$$$$$ and he couldn't care less about fans. If he thinks that doing away with divisions will lead to more money, and he's allowed to do so, he will.

4. I agree that it would be tougher for the Gophers to get to the conference title game w/o divisions, but either way we have to be good, and nearly run the table to get to a title game anyway. Without divisions, it'd be more likely we'd have to be at least 8-1 whereas with divisions, you might sneak a division title with 7-2 some years, but it's not a massive difference.

 

[Golden Elephant]

Two more I wanted to add:
5. I completely agree with GVBadger that OSU is likely to decline a bit, rather than national playoff contender every year (as they have been under Meyer). A new coach will likely cause them to be 8-4/9-3 some years and Michigan will beat them again.

6. The "solution" to the B1G not getting someone in the playoff will come in 3-5 years when the playoff expands to 8 teams. Auto-bids for the P5 may or may not follow, but B1G would always get a team in there regardless. But then of course, Delany would conspiring for a way for the B1G to always get 2 teams out of those 8.

 

[LakerFan]

Don't tell me Michigan-Minnesota is a rivalry. We are a long way from getting that jug back.

We just had it in 2014, and had it won at home in 2015 until a reviewed last second touchdown went the wrong way. Michigan is way ahead in the series, but their streak against us wasn't as impressive as the Badgers. If Harbaugh loses at home next year to Ohio State, they will put their program on remix again and we could be at a pretty even level.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

It’s fine the way it is. The championship games should be elimination matches for a playoff. Every game needs to matter. No rematches amongst conference teams in the playoff. Notre Dame should be forced to join a conference.

 

[Zeppelin Gopher]

I'm totally fine with the East and West split. Legends and Leaders was a disaster for numerous reasons.

The Big XII's setup is terrible.

If we really want to eliminate divisions, then going to the pod system is really the only option. Now, I'd rather play Nebraska yearly than Michigan as they are a regional school with a developing rivalry, but that could be worked out.

https://www.sbnation.com/a/college-football-commissioner/end-divisions

https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2016/6/16/11935718/ncaa-conferences-divisions-scheduling

https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2016/6/15/11923938/big-ten-schedule-divisions-realignment-rivalries

 

[Dano564]

That doesn’t work because Mich-Ohio State will always be played the week right before he championship game. NOBODY wants an immediate repeat/rematch. People hate those. Would be terrible for both programs and the Big Ten.

We already had Michigan playing in the West in the last divisions, and it didn’t work.

Not only is the rematch a horrible idea, but what if one team wins on the road during the rivalry game, only to lose in the neutral site game?
Arguments ensue.

Best option is to wait it out and let the West catch up with the east.
I think the west is trending upwards right now where the east could weaken a bit with the turnover at OSU and Harbaugh doing who knows what in a couple years.

 

[WinLoseOrTy]

I'm totally fine with the East and West split. Legends and Leaders was a disaster for numerous reasons.

The Big XII's setup is terrible.

If we really want to eliminate divisions, then going to the pod system is really the only option. Now, I'd rather play Nebraska yearly than Michigan as they are a regional school with a developing rivalry, but that could be worked out.

https://www.sbnation.com/a/college-football-commissioner/end-divisions

https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2016/6/16/11935718/ncaa-conferences-divisions-scheduling

https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2016/6/15/11923938/big-ten-schedule-divisions-realignment-rivalries

Their pod system is a joke when you realize Ohio St and Wisconsin (and Rutgers) have the easiest pod opponents and Minnesota gets the toughest.

 

[GophersInIowa]

I'd like to see this happen. When you split into divisions, you have weird things like a 4-4 Wisconsin team getting into the title game and then having the game of their lives to win the conference. When we split into divisions, it was an NCAA requirement to do so in order to have a conference championship game. That requirement has been eliminated since then.

I believe that was before they moved to East/West Divisions and they only got in because Ohio St was ineligible.

 

[GophersInIowa]

During the regular season, the crossover games have been fairly even, 48 wins for the East, 43 wins for the West. But the East has won all 5 championship games.

And a team from the west is why the Big Ten hasn't had a representative in the playoffs the last two years. Iowa and Purdue blowing out Ohio St.

Without divisions, it's still probably going to be the same teams winning the conference championship either way. If you're Ohio St, Michigan, Michigan, St, Penn St who's ultimate goal is to get the playoffs, wouldn't you want to have a guaranteed tough schedule each year?

 

[MennoSota]

Right, so unless the rules change then it’s only possible to go divisionless if you scrap the championship game. That’s what the Big 12 just did for several years, and just got out of that business, because they felt it was keeping them out of he playoff.

Top two teams play the championship game. That was how they did it for years in baseball. No divisions, just the two best.

 

[Ope3]

I believe that was before they moved to East/West Divisions and they only got in because Ohio St was ineligible.

Actually Wisconsin was 3rd that year also behind Penn St who was also ineligible.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

Top two teams play the championship game. That was how they did it for years in baseball. No divisions, just the two best.

If it were possible to divine the two best teams in the FBS that would be great and everyone would be on board with it, but FBS isn’t baseball where there is a deep wealth of statistics data points to help determine best teams, hitters, pitchers, fielding, etc etc with a pretty good degree of certainty. Even the biggest stats head doesn’t really know what would happen if Ohio State plays Oklahoma. Alabama having the best recruits, two elite QBs, and an elite and long-tenured coach is as close as it comes to a sure thing. Beyond that?? I’m not betting the inheritance on anyone.

 

[Some guy]

A few things:
1. OSU beating Mich again wouldn't have gotten them into the playoff, so that's just dumb of Delany & co if they think that.

2. Doing away with divisions would make a more chaotic, unfair race to the championship game. Right now, each division member plays the other 6 and then there's 3 crossover games. So yes, it can be unfair if someone has to play OSU, Mich, PSU and someone else is Rutgers, MD, Indy, but I doubt they let those be the crossovers for anyone - almost always (always?), you get 1 or 2 from the better teams and 1 or 2 from the worse. And, you always get to play everyone head-to-head that you're competing against. Going to one big conference where you play 9 of 13 teams would mean you could (likely would) be competing against someone who had a very different strength of schedule, and who you might not have even played.

3. Delany only cares about $$$$$$$$ and he couldn't care less about fans. If he thinks that doing away with divisions will lead to more money, and he's allowed to do so, he will.

4. I agree that it would be tougher for the Gophers to get to the conference title game w/o divisions, but either way we have to be good, and nearly run the table to get to a title game anyway. Without divisions, it'd be more likely we'd have to be at least 8-1 whereas with divisions, you might sneak a division title with 7-2 some years, but it's not a massive difference.

Disagree with 4.

It COULD be harder to get to title game. It COULD be easier.

Likely 1 or 2 locked games.
Iowa and Wisconsin
7 random draws from other 11 teams:
Maybe we play
Rutgers
Maryland
Indiana
Penn state
Michigan state
Illinois
Purdue


We go 9-0 or 8-1

As long as only 1 other team in the conference goes 9-0 or 8-1 we would be in title game.




Here is the thing that they are stupid about. They say divisions create unfair schedules. No divisions exaggerate that problem. Rather than having a guaranteed 5 common opponents when putting teams next to each other in the standings you could have this scenario.

Team A 9-0 in conference
Team B 8-1 in conference
Team C 8-1 in conference

Team B and team C both lost to team A.
Team B beat the teams finishing 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 10th, 12th and 14th
Team C beat teams finishing 5th, 6th, 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th, 13th, 14th



Team B played a tougher schedule. Do you give them tiebreak? That’s not fair Team C didn’t get to pick schedule.
Team B lost to a team rated in the top 10 non conference. Who gets the tiebreak?
Team C is Ohio state (they’d get the tiebreak)

 

[MennoSota]

If it were possible to divine the two best teams in the FBS that would be great and everyone would be on board with it, but FBS isn’t baseball where there is a deep wealth of statistics data points to help determine best teams, hitters, pitchers, fielding, etc etc with a pretty good degree of certainty. Even the biggest stats head doesn’t really know what would happen if Ohio State plays Oklahoma. Alabama having the best recruits, two elite QBs, and an elite and long-tenured coach is as close as it comes to a sure thing. Beyond that?? I’m not betting the inheritance on anyone.

We're talking B1G, championship. The teams with the two best records play in the championship game. No need for divisions.

 

[Some guy]

I'm totally fine with the East and West split. Legends and Leaders was a disaster for numerous reasons.

The Big XII's setup is terrible.

If we really want to eliminate divisions, then going to the pod system is really the only option. Now, I'd rather play Nebraska yearly than Michigan as they are a regional school with a developing rivalry, but that could be worked out.

https://www.sbnation.com/a/college-football-commissioner/end-divisions

https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2016/6/16/11935718/ncaa-conferences-divisions-scheduling

https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2016/6/15/11923938/big-ten-schedule-divisions-realignment-rivalries

POD scheduling could work, but not when the only numbers your conference is divisible by are 1, 14, 2, and 7.

In a 14 team league, there are two 7 team pods.

 

[Iceland12]

Top two teams play the championship game. That was how they did it for years in baseball. No divisions, just the two best.

They stopped it when expansion meant that teams would be finishing 10, 11, 12 etc. Late August and September crowds got pretty scarce.

Hard to sell tickets screaming "we're shooting for 8th next season!"

By the way that was back in 1969.

Even for you that's a pretty dated reference.

 

[Some guy]

I believe that was before they moved to East/West Divisions and they only got in because Ohio St was ineligible.

As was Penn state that year

 

[Some guy]

We're talking B1G, championship. The teams with the two best records play in the championship game. No need for divisions.

Create a schedule that ensures fair comparisons in schedules and I’m all in.

In a 14 team league, divisions are the only way to compare teams with similar schedules.

 

[GopherVotary]

By the way that was back in 1969.

1968.

 

[Iceland12]

1968.

Nope. You're wrong.

In 1968 the Washington Senators finished 10th in the American League and the Houston Astros finished 10thin the National League.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Major_League_Baseball_season


In 1969 Cleveland finished 6th in the AL East. The Seattle Pilots finished 6th in the A.L. West. The Expos finished 6th in the NL East and the Padres finished 6th in the NL West.

Nobody finished 10th.

By the way the Twins won the first AL West Title and lost to Baltimore 3-0 in the first ALCS.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/MLB/1969-standings.shtml

 

[GopherVotary]

Nope. You're wrong.

In 1968 the Washington Senators finished 10th in the American League and the Houston Astros finished 10thin the National League.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Major_League_Baseball_season


In 1969 Cleveland finished 6th in the AL East. The Seattle Pilots finished 6th in the A.L. West. The Expos finished 6th in the NL East and the Padres finished 6th in the NL West.

Nobody finished 10th.

By the way the Twins won the first AL West Title and lost to Baltimore 3-0 in the first ALCS.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/MLB/1969-standings.shtml

Exactly. You said MinneSota’s reference to no-division baseball dated to 1969. Thanks for supporting my statement.

The 1968 Detroit-St Louis World Series was one of the best.

 

[Iceland12]

Exactly. You said MinneSota’s reference to no-division baseball dated to 1969. Thanks for supporting my statement.

The 1968 Detroit-St Louis World Series was one of the best.

They stopped it when expansion meant that teams would be finishing 10, 11, 12 etc. Late August and September crowds got pretty scarce.

Hard to sell tickets screaming "we're shooting for 8th next season!"

By the way that was back in 1969.

Even for you that's a pretty dated reference.

The Montreal Expos and Seattle Pilots were added in 1969. That's when teams could have finished 11 and 12.

They didn't stop the system in 1968. They used it in 1968. They stopped using single league standings in 1969.

That's what I typed.

Did you just misread the post or trying to be a dick?

And yeah, Lolich, McClain and Gibson? A great series.

 

[GopherVotary]

I have a pristine 1969 Seattle Pilots team Topps card, one of my favorite cards. The one-year wonders.

Again, thanks for the support.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

We're talking B1G, championship. The teams with the two best records play in the championship game. No need for divisions.

Depending on schedule still may not get “best” teams. Best records doesn’t really count, as we’ve seen.