Big Ten alignment - Best article yet

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SelectionSunday said:
Why?

No way in the world they're going to put Michigan, Ohio State and Penn State in the same division. It's as simple as that. Whether we/I agree with it or not, that's what's going to happen.

There are 4 things I feel certain about with regards to division alignment:

(1) Penn State will be separated from Mich/OSU;

(2) Michigan, Michigan State & Ohio State will be in the same division;

(3) Indiana and Purdue will be in the same division; and

(4) Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska and Wisconsin will be in the same division.

Those 4 things will happen. The rest is what they'll haggle about.
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I have no doubt that the Big Ten will (idiotically) do that very thing. The question you still haven't answered is why? You say that they will and must separate OSU, PSU and Michigan as though it's obvious. Why?
 

That pretty much sums up what I'm thinking. Illinois and Northwestern will likely be split up, but I'm not as sure of that as the other 4 things.
 

The "why" is where I respectfully disagree. Delany has said competitive balance is the top priority in aligning the divisions. He's the commissioner, so I'll take his word for it.

So if that's the top priority, when I look at Big Ten football (with Nebraska), the four programs I view with the most tradition and standard of excellence are glaringly apparent. ... Michigan, Nebraska, Ohio State & Penn State. I would expect two of those schools in each division.

No disrespect intended to schools like Iowa, Michigan State, Minnesota and Wisconsin -- who all have some nice football tradition whether very recently (Iowa & Wisconsin) or many, many years ago (Michigan State & Minnesota), but traditionally they just don't stack up with the Big 4. That's just an opinion.
 

SelectionSunday said:
So if that's the top priority, when I look at Big Ten football (with Nebraska), the four programs I view with the most tradition and standard of excellence are glaringly apparent. ... Michigan, Nebraska, Ohio State & Penn State. I would expect two of those schools in each division.
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Though I (strongly) disagree with your assessment, what does tradition/standard of excellence have to do with competitive balance?
 

SelectionSunday said:
The "why" is where I respectfully disagree. Delany has said competitive balance is the top priority in aligning the divisions. He's the commissioner, so I'll take his word for it.

So if that's the top priority, when I look at Big Ten football (with Nebraska), the four programs I view with the most tradition and standard of excellence are glaringly apparent. ... Michigan, Nebraska, Ohio State & Penn State. I would expect two of those schools in each division.

No disrespect intended to schools like Iowa, Michigan State, Minnesota and Wisconsin -- who all have some nice football tradition whether very recently (Iowa & Wisconsin) or many, many years ago (Michigan State & Minnesota), but traditionally they just don't stack up with the Big 4. That's just an opinion.
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Your scenerio is only going to be correct if they only intend to use the divisions for football. I got the impression they intended to use them for basketball as well (and perhaps other sports) based on the idea that they would go back to 16 games, two against division teams and one against the others. If this is the case, there's really no way they're sending PSU to the 'West'. It would be terribly unbalanced for basketball. Even if you're not going to seed the BTT based on Divison standing you don't want divisions that unbalanced, with PSU, Nebraska and Iowa all in the same division. It would be a joke at least in the short-term (and really when have Nebraska and PSU ever been good for any long stretch.) Meanwhile, you'd have MSU, OSU, Purdue and Indiana all in the same basketball division on the other side.

For this reason I think they will do one of the following in order of liklihood:

-Haggle, but in the end settle for the true East/West

-Split up OSU and Michigan and have OSU be the team that's in the West. Move the OSU-Michigan game to the beginning of the season a la Miami/FSU (perhaps stealing the opening week Monday Night slot). This alignment would still balance football and be a lot better for basketball, and not have the joke of having PSU in the 'West'.

-Do something close to what you're suggesting and use them only for football.

-Have something completely contrived as the ACC does, making a huge mess.
 


Why does rivalry week have to be the last game of the year? Move Michigan and Ohio State to the first game of the Big Ten season, just as we have Wisconsin near the top of our Big Ten schedule.
In addition, I have a hard time believing they won't separate Michigan and Ohio State soley on them having to possibly play 2 games against each other back to back. That's assuming quite a bit if you ask me.
 

GoGophers2005 said:
Why does rivalry week have to be the last game of the year? Move Michigan and Ohio State to the first game of the Big Ten season, just as we have Wisconsin near the top of our Big Ten schedule.
In addition, I have a hard time believing they won't separate Michigan and Ohio State soley on them having to possibly play 2 games against each other back to back. That's assuming quite a bit if you ask me.
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Yea, that isn't going to happen. The epic s**tstorm that would be unleased by both fanbases and media personalities everywhere would be ridiculous. They play their last regular season game of the year against each other. They don't care if it happens during a "rivalry week" b/c they don't care about any other rivalry (even their own) the way they do about The Game. It doesn't matter what week it is so long as The Game is the last regular season contest for each school.

As for whether or not to separate them...I dunno, but I'm inclined to believe they won't. What I am 100% sure of is that The Game will always be the last regular season contest.
 

SelectionSunday said:
Why?

No way in the world they're going to put Michigan, Ohio State and Penn State in the same division. It's as simple as that. Whether we/I agree with it or not, that's what's going to happen.

There are 4 things I feel certain about with regards to division alignment:

(1) Penn State will be separated from Mich/OSU;

(2) Michigan, Michigan State & Ohio State will be in the same division;

(3) Indiana and Purdue will be in the same division; and

(4) Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska and Wisconsin will be in the same division.

Those 4 things will happen. The rest is what they'll haggle about.
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(5) Of these 6 teams; Minnesota, Michigan State, Indiana, Purdue, Northwestern, Illinois, the split will be 3/3....otherwise the divisions would be very uneven.
 

Since this is a football board, I'm only looking at the divisions as it pertains to Big Ten football. Certainly if we throw hoops into the mix, it'd look quite different.
 



I am not necessarily opposed to one of "The Big Three" Moving from the East to the west. If they do that though with the purpose of "balancing" the divisions, It should be Michigan and Michigan State going to the West, and Wisconsin and Northwestern moving to the east. Trading Penn State for Northwestern/Illinois hurts balance more than it helps.

Michigan - Ohio State
Michigan State - Purdue
Minnesota - Wisconsin
Iowa - Northwestern
Nebraska - Penn State
Illinois - Indiana

It should be east/west. You aren't going to get more than a game or two more of balance per year. It doesn't break up any rivalries and it makes the divisions geographically relevant.
 

I've read several places (who may all be quoting each other, for all I know) that divisions are solely for football.
 

RodentRampage said:
Penn State is the obvious choice NOT to be put in the West. This is because they are the most eastward of the teams in the conference.

Seventeen years is a very screwy time to base things on. Those players of 17 years ago are long gone. If we must not base everything on the events of the last season, surely we can agree that events of 17 years ago have little bearing on where things are likely to be now.
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Penn St has the least developed rivalries with anyone in our conference. They are the most flexible on that point. Geography doesn't really matter, they aren't driving to games anymore. A flight to MN or MI isn't a big difference. If they decide to break up the big 4, it seems very likely PSU is heading west.
 

Section2 said:
Penn St has the least developed rivalries with anyone in our conference. They are the most flexible on that point. Geography doesn't really matter, they aren't driving to games anymore. A flight to MN or MI isn't a big difference. If they decide to break up the big 4, it seems very likely PSU is heading west.
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The teams may not be driving to the games, but the fans are. Geography is the most natural division. It keeps things from being a hodgepodge. If the balance shifts, will they shuffle teams around?
 



SelectionSunday said:
The "why" is where I respectfully disagree. Delany has said competitive balance is the top priority in aligning the divisions. He's the commissioner, so I'll take his word for it.

So if that's the top priority, when I look at Big Ten football (with Nebraska), the four programs I view with the most tradition and standard of excellence are glaringly apparent. ... Michigan, Nebraska, Ohio State & Penn State. I would expect two of those schools in each division.

No disrespect intended to schools like Iowa, Michigan State, Minnesota and Wisconsin -- who all have some nice football tradition whether very recently (Iowa & Wisconsin) or many, many years ago (Michigan State & Minnesota), but traditionally they just don't stack up with the Big 4. That's just an opinion.
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Tradition is not competitive balance. Why don't we just add Harvard? They have lots of football tradition.
 

RodentRampage said:
The teams may not be driving to the games, but the fans are. Geography is the most natural division. It keeps things from being a hodgepodge. If the balance shifts, will they shuffle teams around?
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Well, only one team's fans are truly inconvenienced. I think that moving PSU west is just silly, but I can see them sacrificing PSU's happiness for the "greater good".
 

"Tradition is not competitive balance."

OK, I'll give you that. How about standard of excellence?
 

SelectionSunday said:
"Tradition is not competitive balance."

OK, I'll give you that. How about standard of excellence?
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That doesn't actually mean anything. I'm reasonably certain that Iowa and Wisconsin don't say "Let's go ahead and lose a few this year, we won enough." What matters is whether or not there is a reasonable expectation that Iowa and Wisconsin will maintain their standard of play over the long term. They certainly have over the last 10 years.
 

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