Big Picture

EG#9

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
7,269
Reaction score
2,420
Points
113
I was not sure what I wanted to write after this game as I wasn't even able to be particularly angry as I watched that disaster unfold. As this game was going on, regardless of the result, my main though was it was now 3 of 4 games (or 2 1/2 as the tOSU first half was good) where this team looked nowhere near being able to win the West. We are supposedly a "development program", but where is the development? Tanner Morgan has regressed, the Oline has regressed, we still don't have a home run hitter at RB (in year 5) yet we insist on running the ball like we're a service academy. Defensively, where are the big time play makers? Statistically we were good there today, but I thought we also missed a lot of tackles and looked very slow on that key 3rd down where we couldn't get the sack and the Bowling Green QB scrambled for a gain large enough to convert on 4th down. This Minnesota team looks and performs like it belongs in the MAC with Miami (Oh) and Bowling Green as they simply don't stand out from either a strength or speed perspective.

As for the coaching, it's more of the same. Once again, PJ Fleck calls a timeout before a key play (this time a 4th and 1 from his own 30) and comes up with a shaky decision and an uninspired play call. I think the announcers on TV mentioned it, but Bowling Green looked like they were set up to block a kick on that 4th and 1. How do you plan to get a yard by hading off 4-5 yards deep in your own backfield against that look? If you are going to make a reckless (IMHO given time, score, opponent) decision to go for it there, you should have a hurry up play installed that your team defaults to in that situation. Then you had the 3rd and 6 RUTM call followed by the decision to try Trickett from 52. If the call on 3rd and 6 is RUTM, then you should have made a go for it or punt decision prior to that play...getting stuffed for nothing and then trotting your mediocre kicker out there was asinine. Finally you had the decision to accept the penalty on the punt late in the game. You know your limitations on special teams as you barely try to return anything, they had already been a disaster in this game, and the time left on the clock was precious. To have them punt a second time was just inviting another disaster and it almost happened.

Why is Rob Wenger still employed? One of the most impressive things about the 2019 season was they managed to be a top 10 team while losing badly on the margins. special teams were awful that year, we couldn't cover kicks, we couldn't trust a kicker to make a chip shot fg, etc, etc. The special teams were somehow arguably worse in 2020 and yet in 2021 the same guy is still here? There were huge errors against Colorado and then a bunch more today.

Mike Sanford has been a disaster. It sucked last year and I get giving him a second chance because of the limited practice time before that season but the regression of the passing game has reached a level that through just 4 games a demotion or dismissal is warranted. My optomism for this program during/after 2019 was that we would simply be much better as a passing team (especially in regards to explosive plays) than Iowa and Wisconsin and that advantage would negate a (hopefully shriking) advantage those schools had in the trenches. We no longer have that advantage and don't seem all that interested in reacquiring it either. Without the big play ability, I don't see a way for us to win those games...we're less physical in the trenches and much worse on the margins with regards to special teams and in game decision making.

So where is this program going? If we assume we are playing our best players, then it certainly seems like a step back next year. Where is the evidence of player development to believe the guys replacing Morgan, most of the Oline, and Autman-Bell on offense will not be downgrades? Why should we expect this program to contend even for something as modest as Big Ten West title again given what we've seen now in the last dozen or so games over 2 seasons? We're not showing an improved talent level, we're not showing improved in game coaching decisions, and PJ is not showing any willingness to make significant changes to any area of the program.
 

Surfing all the B1G on tv, I didn’t see 1team where we will be favored. Sad
 

Why is Rob Wenger still employed? One of the most impressive things about the 2019 season was they managed to be a top 10 team while losing badly on the margins. special teams were awful that year, we couldn't cover kicks, we couldn't trust a kicker to make a chip shot fg, etc, etc. The special teams were somehow arguably worse in 2020 and yet in 2021 the same guy is still here? There were huge errors against Colorado and then a bunch more today.

I'll give him a pass on when the kicker misses kicks, but the special teams penalties that amounted to not knowing the rules (lining up over the center, "leverage", a bad roughing the kicker penalty) were particularly frustrating. Overall, these are some of the weakest ST units in a fairly positive recent history of them for Gopher football.

The Gophers aren't nearly good enough to lose the ST battle in Big Ten games and win many of them.
 

Part of me just chucks this up to we are Gopher football. Nothing ever changes.

Also, as a Minnesota sports fan, it's kind of whatever. Was hoping fleck could get it going, but it's not happening in year 5.

So sad!

Debating if I want to watch the Vikings 0-3 start tomorrow.
 

This post sums up a lot of what I’m thinking and feeling. I still believe in Fleck, but I’m starting to get seriously concerned. I love PJ the man, the motivator and the recruiter, but I’m starting to doubt his football philosophy and his idea of what it apparently takes to win ball games. Something must change, and if he can’t see that, perhaps the change needs to be with him and the way he thinks. If he can’t or won’t fire Sanford, then at the very least let Simon call the plays for a while and see what happens. It sure as hell can’t get much worse than today. Same for special teams. I’m so sick and tired of mediocre kicking (except for kick offs) and punts being allowed to bounce down the field or hit our own players resulting in turnovers. Catch the damn ball. PLEASE.
We had a sold out student section today and we’re coming off a 30 point drubbing of another power 5 team on the road. And this is what we treated them too? Why the hell would they come back?
 
Last edited:


but the special teams penalties that amounted to not knowing the rules (lining up over the center, "leverage", a bad roughing the kicker penalty) were particularly frustrating
^^THIS!!! This was so damn frustrating. This is all coaching and we got out coached today in all aspects of the game.
 

I was not sure what I wanted to write after this game as I wasn't even able to be particularly angry as I watched that disaster unfold. As this game was going on, regardless of the result, my main though was it was now 3 of 4 games (or 2 1/2 as the tOSU first half was good) where this team looked nowhere near being able to win the West. We are supposedly a "development program", but where is the development? Tanner Morgan has regressed, the Oline has regressed, we still don't have a home run hitter at RB (in year 5) yet we insist on running the ball like we're a service academy. Defensively, where are the big time play makers? Statistically we were good there today, but I thought we also missed a lot of tackles and looked very slow on that key 3rd down where we couldn't get the sack and the Bowling Green QB scrambled for a gain large enough to convert on 4th down. This Minnesota team looks and performs like it belongs in the MAC with Miami (Oh) and Bowling Green as they simply don't stand out from either a strength or speed perspective.

As for the coaching, it's more of the same. Once again, PJ Fleck calls a timeout before a key play (this time a 4th and 1 from his own 30) and comes up with a shaky decision and an uninspired play call. I think the announcers on TV mentioned it, but Bowling Green looked like they were set up to block a kick on that 4th and 1. How do you plan to get a yard by hading off 4-5 yards deep in your own backfield against that look? If you are going to make a reckless (IMHO given time, score, opponent) decision to go for it there, you should have a hurry up play installed that your team defaults to in that situation. Then you had the 3rd and 6 RUTM call followed by the decision to try Trickett from 52. If the call on 3rd and 6 is RUTM, then you should have made a go for it or punt decision prior to that play...getting stuffed for nothing and then trotting your mediocre kicker out there was asinine. Finally you had the decision to accept the penalty on the punt late in the game. You know your limitations on special teams as you barely try to return anything, they had already been a disaster in this game, and the time left on the clock was precious. To have them punt a second time was just inviting another disaster and it almost happened.

Why is Rob Wenger still employed? One of the most impressive things about the 2019 season was they managed to be a top 10 team while losing badly on the margins. special teams were awful that year, we couldn't cover kicks, we couldn't trust a kicker to make a chip shot fg, etc, etc. The special teams were somehow arguably worse in 2020 and yet in 2021 the same guy is still here? There were huge errors against Colorado and then a bunch more today.

Mike Sanford has been a disaster. It sucked last year and I get giving him a second chance because of the limited practice time before that season but the regression of the passing game has reached a level that through just 4 games a demotion or dismissal is warranted. My optomism for this program during/after 2019 was that we would simply be much better as a passing team (especially in regards to explosive plays) than Iowa and Wisconsin and that advantage would negate a (hopefully shriking) advantage those schools had in the trenches. We no longer have that advantage and don't seem all that interested in reacquiring it either. Without the big play ability, I don't see a way for us to win those games...we're less physical in the trenches and much worse on the margins with regards to special teams and in game decision making.

So where is this program going? If we assume we are playing our best players, then it certainly seems like a step back next year. Where is the evidence of player development to believe the guys replacing Morgan, most of the Oline, and Autman-Bell on offense will not be downgrades? Why should we expect this program to contend even for something as modest as Big Ten West title again given what we've seen now in the last dozen or so games over 2 seasons? We're not showing an improved talent level, we're not showing improved in game coaching decisions, and PJ is not showing any willingness to make significant changes to any area of the program.
These are the best comments on the program, that I have read in a long time. Thank you.
 

Offensive play calling / performance is confusing. Seems like the other teams know the play....and we don't change them.

But of course they know when you line up with two WRs and run... again.

Do we not have a screen pass that might gouge a team who is aggressive at the line?

OL performance is baffling.
 




Watching Nebraska look really good against Michigan St. They’ve improved a bunch since that opening loss against Illinois.
 

That 3rd and 6 RUTM epitomizes everything wrong with their offense. So vanilla, so unimaginative, so freaking predictable and easy to defend. Something has to change.
 

This post sums up a lot of what I’m thinking and feeling. I still believe in Fleck, but I’m starting to get seriously concerned. I love PJ the man, the motivator and the recruiter, but I’m starting to doubt his football philosophy and his idea of what it apparently takes to win ball games. Something must change, and if he can’t see that, perhaps the change needs to be with him and the way he thinks. If he can’t or won’t fire Sanford, then at the very least let Simon call the plays for a while and see what happens. It sure as hell can’t get much worse than today. Same for special teams. I’m so sick and tired of mediocre kicking (except for kick offs) and punts being allowed to bounce down the field or hit our own players resulting in turnovers. Catch the damn ball. PLEASE.
We had a sold out student section today and we’re coming off a 30 point drubbing of another power 5 team on the road. And this is what we treated them too? Why the hell would they come back?

Get rid of the two, $2,000 scholarships given out in the 4th.....and go with five $10,000 scholarships.

Very disturbing to see this play not to lose mentality when playing far less talented teams. Great teams have killer mentalities when playing teams like this. For example.....against Akron......OSU called timeouts at the end of half so that they could get the ball back with about 20 seconds left on the clock. They turned that into three more points in a game that they were already winning by 28.
 

EG#9 nailed it. I said during the second quarter that this has Ohio 2000 written all over it. That 2000 squad pulled it together and won three Big Ten games in a row (including at Ohio St.) before the meltdown in Bloomington. Mind boggling performance by our coaching staff, OL and QB. The direction we take from here? Who knows.
 



That 3rd and 6 RUTM epitomizes everything wrong with their offense. So vanilla, so unimaginative, so freaking predictable and easy to defend. Something has to change.

I think I know the prescription to our aching playcalling.....

......jet sweep.
 

Watching Nebraska look really good against Michigan St. They’ve improved a bunch since that opening loss against Illinois.
On the other hand, Nebraska might just vomit down the front of their shirt and give away the game.
 

I gotta believe PJ has to take a serious look at benching tanner- nothing there, might as well give someone else a look.
 



I was not sure what I wanted to write after this game as I wasn't even able to be particularly angry as I watched that disaster unfold. As this game was going on, regardless of the result, my main though was it was now 3 of 4 games (or 2 1/2 as the tOSU first half was good) where this team looked nowhere near being able to win the West. We are supposedly a "development program", but where is the development? Tanner Morgan has regressed, the Oline has regressed, we still don't have a home run hitter at RB (in year 5) yet we insist on running the ball like we're a service academy. Defensively, where are the big time play makers? Statistically we were good there today, but I thought we also missed a lot of tackles and looked very slow on that key 3rd down where we couldn't get the sack and the Bowling Green QB scrambled for a gain large enough to convert on 4th down. This Minnesota team looks and performs like it belongs in the MAC with Miami (Oh) and Bowling Green as they simply don't stand out from either a strength or speed perspective.

As for the coaching, it's more of the same. Once again, PJ Fleck calls a timeout before a key play (this time a 4th and 1 from his own 30) and comes up with a shaky decision and an uninspired play call. I think the announcers on TV mentioned it, but Bowling Green looked like they were set up to block a kick on that 4th and 1. How do you plan to get a yard by hading off 4-5 yards deep in your own backfield against that look? If you are going to make a reckless (IMHO given time, score, opponent) decision to go for it there, you should have a hurry up play installed that your team defaults to in that situation. Then you had the 3rd and 6 RUTM call followed by the decision to try Trickett from 52. If the call on 3rd and 6 is RUTM, then you should have made a go for it or punt decision prior to that play...getting stuffed for nothing and then trotting your mediocre kicker out there was asinine. Finally you had the decision to accept the penalty on the punt late in the game. You know your limitations on special teams as you barely try to return anything, they had already been a disaster in this game, and the time left on the clock was precious. To have them punt a second time was just inviting another disaster and it almost happened.

Why is Rob Wenger still employed? One of the most impressive things about the 2019 season was they managed to be a top 10 team while losing badly on the margins. special teams were awful that year, we couldn't cover kicks, we couldn't trust a kicker to make a chip shot fg, etc, etc. The special teams were somehow arguably worse in 2020 and yet in 2021 the same guy is still here? There were huge errors against Colorado and then a bunch more today.

Mike Sanford has been a disaster. It sucked last year and I get giving him a second chance because of the limited practice time before that season but the regression of the passing game has reached a level that through just 4 games a demotion or dismissal is warranted. My optomism for this program during/after 2019 was that we would simply be much better as a passing team (especially in regards to explosive plays) than Iowa and Wisconsin and that advantage would negate a (hopefully shriking) advantage those schools had in the trenches. We no longer have that advantage and don't seem all that interested in reacquiring it either. Without the big play ability, I don't see a way for us to win those games...we're less physical in the trenches and much worse on the margins with regards to special teams and in game decision making.

So where is this program going? If we assume we are playing our best players, then it certainly seems like a step back next year. Where is the evidence of player development to believe the guys replacing Morgan, most of the Oline, and Autman-Bell on offense will not be downgrades? Why should we expect this program to contend even for something as modest as Big Ten West title again given what we've seen now in the last dozen or so games over 2 seasons? We're not showing an improved talent level, we're not showing improved in game coaching decisions, and PJ is not showing any willingness to make significant changes to any area of the program.

Very well thought out analysis. Thank you.
 

P5: Gophers get 205 yards passing against Ohio State; 164 yards passing against Colorado. MAC: Gophers get 112 Yards passing against Miami and 59 yards passing against Bowling Green. So far in 2022 Gophers have run 72.7% of the time and passed 27.3%. Against Bowling Green run was 77%, pass 23%. We seem disinclined or afraid to pass. Thus, we have become extremely predictable. We are not taking what the defense gives us. We are running the least diverse, most predictable offense in the B1G, I suspect. We are not good enough to simply overpower everybody with a predictable run game. We need creativity and breadth in play calling. We need game plans that can adapt. This moment is, to me, like the Illinois loss that resulted in Rob Smith being replaced.
 

Do we not have a screen pass that might gouge a team who is aggressive at the line?
I think the answer is no, we don’t. I’ve never seen an offense use it’s running backs so unimaginatively. And where was our trade mark slant or wide receiver screen? I don’t remember see one of those at all today. I mean, I could have forgotten them. Lord knows I’m trying hard to put today out of my mind. All I remember for sure is RUTM.
 

We are not taking what the defense gives us.
Hold on now. PJ says repeatedly that this is our entire offensive game plan.


This moment is, to me, like the Illinois loss that resulted in Rob Smith being replaced.
Yes, it is EXACTLY like that, so let’s see if PJ has the guts to pull the trigger. And I don’t really care if he fires him. Just put Simon in charge of calling plays.
P5: Gophers get 205 yards passing against Ohio State; 164 yards passing against Colorado. MAC: Gophers get 112 Yards passing against Miami and 59 yards passing against Bowling Green. So far in 2022 Gophers have run 72.7% of the time and passed 27.3%. Against Bowling Green run was 77%, pass 23%.
This passage right here completely encompasses what is wrong with the offense and the game planning. Anyone, literally anyone, knows you can’t be successful with this kind of play mix. Yet this is what we do, over and over again. If PJ doesn’t make some changes, perhaps he is the issue that must be dealt with.
 

Big picture, this is 1 game and I won’t overreact. Beat Purdue and the West can still be won. That being said, literally every starter on the offense looked extremely disengaged for this game. Defense looked good. I would take a 2-2 start with the team going say 5-3 or 6-2 in the remaining 8 which is entirely possible.
 

I think the answer is no, we don’t. I’ve never seen an offense use it’s running backs so unimaginatively. And where was our trade mark slant or wide receiver screen? I don’t remember see one of those at all today. I mean, I could have forgotten them. Lord knows I’m trying hard to put today out of my mind. All I remember for sure is RUTM.
Tanner has regressed pretty dramatically as this season rolls on. 14-25 and 205 yards against Ohio State …. 5-13 for 59 yards (and 2 interceptions) against Bowling Green? But our offensive play calling has regressed even more, it seems. No creativity; no reasoned adaptation to the other team’s blitzing and defensive chance taking; don’t seem to run plays that put “stress” on key defensive positions. Each game, as our shrinking repertoire of plays and our obvious tendencies can be more and more studied, our uni-dimensional offense will lose ground to intelligent defenses. Has the regression in our play calling caused Tanner’s regression? Vice versa? I certainly don’t know. But if we continue running the offense we have been running, there is no bowl game waiting at the end of the season. The B1G defenses, even Illinois, know how to stifle uni-dimensional, uncreative, highly predictable offenses.
 
Last edited:

Big picture, this is 1 game and I won’t overreact. Beat Purdue and the West can still be won. That being said, literally every starter on the offense looked extremely disengaged for this game. Defense looked good. I would take a 2-2 start with the team going say 5-3 or 6-2 in the remaining 8 which is entirely possible.
And if they lose next week and score 10-13 points again...Then what?
 


I caught a glimpse of the 4th and 1 ill-fated momentum-changing play before I left for my grandson's soccer game.

That single play is a metaphor for where this season is going. It is extreme pendulum swings of inconsistencies.

A few random thoughts came to mind:

1. Mike Sanford Jr. is not a good fit. He is the Rob Smith of Offense. He's ruined the crispiness of Gophers' RPO Offense. In essence, the Gophers' RPO is dead. Tanner Morgan lost his magic. In fairness, the pandemic hurt the team and coaching. Whatever QB coaching Sanford is doing isn't working. TM appears to be holding the ball longer.

2. PJ needs to pay close attention to timeout decisions and risky gambles. This loss is ultimately on him.

3. Yesterday's game was all about matchups. BGSU's effectively shut down the Gophers offense. What happened to the vaunted Offensive Line? The BGSU Defense was slicing to thru them like butter. No wonder the Receiving Game was shut down. The Gopher's defense could not contain a mobile BGSU QB. They have to start respecting every MAC team that they play. PJ Fleck gave the game away with a poor 4th and 1 play decision to go for it.

4. It is time to question why Tanner was not replaced. Annexstad did beat out TM before he got hurt. Kramer has gotten better as a mobile threat. You don't sacrifice a winnable game.

5. The Gophers have played an excellent first half against tOSU and a complete game against Colorado. In games that they lost, they were unable to make good game adjustments.

This season is not over yet. You can bet that Big Ten teams will be studying the BGSU game film closely. The Gophers better have answers for much better Big Ten Defenses.

Honestly, I'd like to see a mobile or a much taller Gophers QB in the game for the Gophers. I know that PJ Fleck is very loyal to TM. He is in a very difficult spot. If it is not working, fix it. The Gophers need to make tough decisions to put themselves in game situations to win. He benches Williams when he fumbles. Benching a QB who is ineffective must be on the table. You owe it to the entire team and the backups that have been waiting for their moment.

Should we be worried about this game's impact on recruiting?

The ball is the program. Winning games is the program's future.
 
Last edited:

I caught a glimpse of the 4th and 1 ill-fated momentum-changing play before I left for my grandson's soccer game.

That single play is a metaphor for where this season is going. It is extreme pendulum swings of inconsistencies.

A few random thoughts came to mind:

1. Mike Sanford Jr. is not a good fit. He is the Rob Smith of Offense. He's ruined the crispiness of Gophers' RPO Offense. In essence, the Gophers' RPO is dead. Tanner Morgan lost his magic. In fairness, the pandemic hurt the team and coaching. Whatever QB coaching Sanford is doing isn't working. TM appears to be holding the ball longer.

2. PJ needs to pay close attention to timeout decisions and risky gambles. This loss is ultimately on him.

3. Yesterday's game was all about matchups. BGSU's effectively shut down the Gophers offense. What happened to the vaunted Offensive Line? The BGSU Defense was slicing to thru them like butter. No wonder the Receiving Game was shut down. The Gopher's defense could not contain a mobile BGSU QB. They have to start respecting every MAC team that they play. PJ Fleck gave the game away with a poor 4th and 1 play decision to go for it.

4. It is time to question why Tanner was not replaced. Annexstad did beat out TM before he got hurt. Kramer has gotten better as a mobile threat. You don't sacrifice a winnable game.

5. The Gophers have played an excellent first half against tOSU and a complete game against Colorado. In games that they lost, they were unable to make good game adjustments.

This season is not over yet. You can bet that Big Ten teams will be studying the BGSU game film closely. The Gophers better have answers for much better Big Ten Defenses.

Honestly, I'd like to see a mobile or a much taller Gophers QB in the game for the Gophers. I know that PJ Fleck is very loyal to TM. He is in a very difficult spot. If it is not working, fix it. The Gophers need to make tough decisions to put themselves in game situations to win. He benches Williams when he fumbles. Benching a QB who is ineffective must be on the table. You owe it to the entire team and the backups that have been waiting for their moment.

Should we be worried about this game's impact on recruiting?

The ball is the program. Winning games is the program's future.
On recruiting no issue over one game. Players go based on relationships and fit. Lose a bunch and probably there is an impact.
 

Wegner has been with Fleck since WMU, I believe. And he coaches the "rush ends" now, basically a hybrid between a 4-3 DE and a 3-4 OLB.

Burns has been railing on special teams for a while now.


Fleck has his buds, and he's going down with them, if need be.
 

Jerry Kill was loyal to Matt Limegrover to a fault.

I hope that PJ Fleck is not blinded by friendship. He has to weigh his mission to win championships and keeping coaches that are not performing to a common end. Every team struggles with that. There is lots of coaching mobility as well as firings.
 




Top Bottom