Ben Leber's Complaints

[SMU GOPHS FAN]

Did anyone else find Leber's complaints yesterday about having to play on concrete funny since that is exactly what they played on for 25 years in the Dome with the old carpet?

 

[Silvio]

I don't recall Leber ever having to play on the old carpet. Interesting that in a lost season players are concerned about being able to protect their ability to make a living by protecting themselves from unecessary risk to injury. I don't know if playing on cold frozen turf (grass or synthetic) has an increased injury rate, but I would guess either players (agents or union) or the league do. I would guess that it does lead to a higher number of injuries.

 

[CentralGopher]

I'm sure it won't be any harder than his thick skull. He is a pro and pays no attention whatsoever to anything that has nothing to do with the pros so he is completely unaware that the ground will be thawed.

 

[Son of a Badger]

Leber gets paid 4 million a year. Suck it up and play.

 

[jovs]

It is going to be frozen concrete. Even the met stadium had heaters that thawed the field so it wasn't frozen. Not sure what they are going to do about that. Older players talk about playing on painted dirt, but it was soft painted dirt.

Maybe they could put a tarp over the field and blow hot air to thaw it and remove it at game time.

 

[Silvio]

I'm sure it won't be any harder than his thick skull. He is a pro and pays no attention whatsoever to anything that has nothing to do with the pros so he is completely unaware that the ground will be thawed.

The ground will only be thawed until they move remove the tarp and the heater. Last time I checked when I get out of my warm car at work it isn't still warm when i go to drive home. Last time I checked my car also has a roof to retain heat.

 

[CentralGopher]

8hrs<4hrs and the ground takes longer to freeze than your tin can car. Not saying it won't be a hard surface and frozen by the end of the game but it will be thawed when play starts. Any idea how long it took this fall to freeze the ground? It sure didn't happen with one night below 32 degrees. Dirt retains warmth longer than metal or concrete.

 

[Ole]

If they use a salt solution to remove ice and heat the field under a tarp for several days it will be almost dry by Mon night. The remaining salt will help keep it from freezing on contact with the cold air, which will not be too bad(not -20 or anything).

Leber is covering for the well payed vets that have quit on this season already and only came here in the first place because they can play indoors.

The are complaining like the overpaid babies they are, there will be absolutely no safety issue whatsoever, anyone who says otherwise has other concerns, mainly comfort while counting down the days of the lost NFL season. This game has the potential to expose how little they NFL players give a damn about the fans/state/franchise they play for. NFLers play for one thing, themselves and money. Period.

I would love to be proven wrong.

BTW the Bears don't want to play in a game in MN, in the elements where a crazy bounce or sloppy defensive battle could go either way. They get the game move indoors outstate, they win, guaranteed.

Joe Webb's desire to prove himself and the amount of Viking players with any ounce of pride or love of the game will decide whether it's a bad blowout or a competitive game.
Watch McKinnie/Longwell/Berrian/Rice/Winfield(the veteran dandys on the squad). If these guys quit, the game will be over fast, if they decide to play the game will be a great MN football moment, if not then they will simply fade the season away like they had hoped to in the first place.

 

[Silvio]

8hrs<4hrs and the ground takes longer to freeze than your tin can car. Not saying it won't be a hard surface and frozen by the end of the game but it will be thawed when play starts. Any idea how long it took this fall to freeze the ground? It sure didn't happen with one night below 32 degrees. Dirt retains warmth longer than metal or concrete.

It also retains cold longer, I don't think that putting a tarp with a heater is a very efficient way to conduct heat downward. The amount of the turf/ concrete that will unthaw will be minimal and it will get cold again quite quickly.

So you think that the hot air from a heater and trap will get through the turf through the concrete down to the dirt?

 

[Monty519]

The ground will only be thawed until they move remove the tarp and the heater. Last time I checked when I get out of my warm car at work it isn't still warm when i go to drive home. Last time I checked my car also has a roof to retain heat.

No, it won't be 100% soft, but with temps in the teens, I really don't think it's gonna be nearly as big a deal as people think. For the Gopher game against Iowa, it started frozen and actually became better as the game went on as it was broken down. With the tarp and heat, it should start decent, and probably will end okay. Besides, the forecast calls for snow, they can use that to soften the blows.

 

[Silvio]

No, it won't be 100% soft, but with temps in the teens, I really don't think it's gonna be nearly as big a deal as people think. For the Gopher game against Iowa, it started frozen and actually became better as the game went on as it was broken down. With the tarp and heat, it should start decent, and probably will end okay. Besides, the forecast calls for snow, they can use that to soften the blows.

I agree that it won't be as bad as people think. I also think that players have a valid point to be concerned about the additional risk factors for injury that is being introduced by playing in a venue that was not designed to be used in these type of conditions.

 

[Ole]

It also retains cold longer, I don't think that putting a tarp with a heater is a very efficient way to conduct heat downward. The amount of the turf/ concrete that will unthaw will be minimal and it will get cold again quite quickly.

So you think that the hot air from a heater and trap will get through the turf through the concrete down to the dirt?

They have turf professionals working for the next 3 days to make sure the field thaws.
It's not a big deal. They can crank up heat under an insulated tarp to who knows how warm let's say 100 degrees for 3 days, with salt solution. It will be soft and warm and dry with salt residue to prevent further freezing.

 

[CentralGopher]

It also retains cold longer, I don't think that putting a tarp with a heater is a very efficient way to conduct heat downward. The amount of the turf/ concrete that will unthaw will be minimal and it will get cold again quite quickly.

So you think that the hot air from a heater and trap will get through the turf through the concrete down to the dirt?

Try it outside with a knipco and a tarp for yourself. The heat under the tarp will actually pull the frost up out of the ground. The frost isn't that deep anyway to start with. I have seen farmers as late as monday out digging their fields so the frost isn't that deep.

 

[Silvio]

If they use a salt solution to remove ice and heat the field under a tarp for several days it will be almost dry by Mon night. The remaining salt will help keep it from freezing on contact with the cold air, which will not be too bad(not -20 or anything).

Leber is covering for the well payed vets that have quit on this season already and only came here in the first place because they can play indoors.

The are complaining like the overpaid babies they are, there will be absolutely no safety issue whatsoever, anyone who says otherwise has other concerns, mainly comfort while counting down the days of the lost NFL season. This game has the potential to expose how little they NFL players give a damn about the fans/state/franchise they play for. NFLers play for one thing, themselves and money. Period.

I would love to be proven wrong.

BTW the Bears don't want to play in a game in MN, in the elements where a crazy bounce or sloppy defensive battle could go either way. They get the game move indoors outstate, they win, guaranteed.

Joe Webb's desire to prove himself and the amount of Viking players with any ounce of pride or love of the game will decide whether it's a bad blowout or a competitive game.
Watch McKinnie/Longwell/Berrian/Rice/Winfield(the veteran dandys on the squad). If these guys quit, the game will be over fast, if they decide to play the game will be a great MN football moment, if not then they will simply fade the season away like they had hoped to in the first place.

How is winfield a veteran dandy? He might be the toughest player on the team. A lot of people are quite quick to call players much tougher than themselves out for looking out for their long term best interest. Look at former NFL players from for what many of you think is the NFL Glory days (70's). It is painfully clear that if the players don't look out for themselves, noone will.

 

[ruralgopher]

Leber needs to worry about the defense, from what I've seen from that unit lately there shouldn't be much free time to concern himself with much else.

 

[dpodoll68]

Watch McKinnie/Longwell/Berrian/Rice/Winfield(the veteran dandys on the squad)

Call Winfield what you want, but the last thing I'd EVER call him is a dandy. Dude is pound-for-pound the most badass player in the league, and it's not even close.

 

[Silvio]

Leber needs to worry about the defense, from what I've seen from that unit lately there shouldn't be much free time to concern himself with much else.

Yes the defense is what has held back the Vikings this year. Granted that unit hasn't been as good as in years past, but they are nowhere near the problem with the team.

 

[Ole]

How is winfield a veteran dandy? He might be the toughest player on the team.

Publicly said he didn't want to play outside in this game.
He's a tough player, but he complains alot too.
Older players have less motivation in a lost season and really have nothing to prove now.

Ok then, in hindsight, replace him with Kluwe and the statement stands.

 

[Silvio]

Publicly said he didn't want to play outside in this game.
He's a tough player, but he complains alot too.
Older players have less motivation in a lost season and really have nothing to prove now.

In hindsight, replace him with Kluwe and the statement stands.

None of the Vikings should want to play in this game. Their offense will be lucky to score a touchdown in the game. Their season is over, many of the veteran players including winfield probably won't be on this team next year as they will be cut.

 

[Ole]

None of the Vikings should want to play in this game. Their offense will be lucky to score a touchdown in the game. Their season is over, many of the veteran players including winfield probably won't be on this team next year as they will be cut.

Exactly what I'm trying to say, they have no pride, they only play for themselves.
I'd love to be proven wrong.
The field "safety" is a cover for players who are done with the season and want to get paid and get on a plane to go back to Florida where they live.

Why is it that two weeks ago our beloved Gophers, with nothing to play for but pride and a bronze pig, took to a cold and supposedly frozen field, with numerous depth issues and coaching upheaval, and played their hearts out to beat a classic rival in front of some very loyal and cold fans who were not served alcohol in the stadium(not sober though)
But supposedly professional football players can't do this for their fans and their franchise that represents their fans' state?

Plain and simple, this is hammering home why I went from a hardcore vikings fan to a hardcore gopher fan.

 

[ruralgopher]

Yes the defense is what has held back the Vikings this year. Granted that unit hasn't been as good as in years past, but they are nowhere near the problem with the team.

I didn't suggest that they were the only, or even the main problem. But they are a shell of their former selves and need to improve.

 

[RodentRampage]

Exactly what I'm trying to say, they have no pride, they only play for themselves.
I'd love to be proven wrong.
The field "safety" is a cover for players who are done with the season and want to get paid and get on a plane to go back to Florida where they live.

Why is it that two weeks ago our beloved Gophers, with nothing to play for but pride and a bronze pig, took to a cold and supposedly frozen field, with numerous depth issues and coaching upheaval, and played their hearts out to beat a classic rival in front of some very loyal and cold fans who were not served alcohol in the stadium(not sober though)
But supposedly professional football players can't do this for their fans and their franchise that represents their fans' state?

Plain and simple, this is hammering home why I went from a hardcore vikings fan to a hardcore gopher fan.

The game itself matters so much more in college. In the NFL, the regular season is nothing but a means to the playoffs. In the NFL, winning two games versus winning three games means nothing. But in college, even when there's no bowl game on the line, the game matters. I remember when Green Bay and Tampa Bay were both bad teams, people would call the Tampa Bay Green Bay game the "Bay of Pigs".

 

[SMU GOPHS FAN]

Plain and simple, this is hammering home why I went from a hardcore vikings fan to a hardcore gopher fan.

I couldn't have said it any better Ole. The only reason I even watch the purple anymore is because I get together with some buddies for the games. I honestly wouldn't watch them if we didn't get together...and I had season tix to the purple for ten seasons if that tells you how passionate I used to be about them.

 

[GophersInIowa]

I'm still trying to figure out the difference between a frozen field and the astro turf that was played on for years. They're just being babies. I wish guys like Dick Butkus, Bud Grant, and Jim Marshall would call these guys out publicly.

 

[Silvio]

I'm still trying to figure out the difference between a frozen field and the astro turf that was played on for years. They're just being babies. I wish guys like Dick Butkus, Bud Grant, and Jim Marshall would call these guys out publicly.

Great idea, lets call out the only people who will be pushing to get our horrible pension issues resolved in the next CBA.

 

[imthewalrus]

Did anyone else find Leber's complaints yesterday about having to play on concrete funny since that is exactly what they played on for 25 years in the Dome with the old carpet?

Tell that stinking viking to call in sick so that he doesn't have to play in the stinking Monday Night game. Tell him that none of his stinking teammates should bother to even show up for their stinking nfl game. It means NOTHING. The stinking vikings mean nothing. They might as well have not bothered to schedule this game.

The stinking vikings...leber included have really stunk the joint out no matter where they have played. Quite frankly, I don't care if that stinking viking ever plays another stinking game in Minnesota or any where else.

There: it needed to be said. When those overpaid thugs start complaining about playing in TCF BANK STADIUM it is time to tell them just how much they have stunk this year. TCF BANK STADIUM is too good for stinking leber and his stinking teammates! ; 0 )

 

[The Pope of Dinkytown]

I'm still trying to figure out the difference between a frozen field and the astro turf that was played on for years. They're just being babies. I wish guys like Dick Butkus, Bud Grant, and Jim Marshall would call these guys out publicly.

Fran Tarkenton just said on Reusse's show that he never played on a frozen field during his entire career. Fran thinks the condition of TCF's field might be a problem for the players.

 

[Weddings and Steak Frys]

Did anyone else find Leber's complaints yesterday about having to play on concrete funny since that is exactly what they played on for 25 years in the Dome with the old carpet?

Cut Leber some slack. Remember he played his college ball at Kansas State which is the academic equivalent of Happy Choices DayCare. K-State attracts so many JUCO's because the curriculum is significantly less rigorous. He would have a hard time spelling hard field let alone understanding how a frozen field can be warmed.

NOTICE: Before some over-emotional Purple fan rushes in to defend the honor of his hero screaming that he was Academic All-State in South Dakota: This is meant as a joke. A poor one maybe, but still a joke.

 

[tato2001]

I don't recall Leber ever having to play on the old carpet. Interesting that in a lost season players are concerned about being able to protect their ability to make a living by protecting themselves from unecessary risk to injury. I don't know if playing on cold frozen turf (grass or synthetic) has an increased injury rate, but I would guess either players (agents or union) or the league do. I would guess that it does lead to a higher number of injuries.

Can we just put aside this whole argument about meaningless games, lost seasons, and players protecting their ability to make a living?

If this is so important, the NFL should CANCEL every so-called meaningless game the moment it is clear both teams are eliminated from the playoffs. That is clearly the safest alternative. But then they should also refund ticket holders, refund broadcasters, refund advertisers, and the players should forfeit salaries for games unplayed.

That is NOT what the players appear to want with these comments. What they appear to want is to collect their money, while being given the tacit approval to mail in a half-hearted effort in the most benign circumstances possible.

Sorry, but tough luck. The job is to provide 16 games of entertainment to the best of your ability. They can deal with it.

 

[jovs]

Fran Tarkenton just said on Reusse's show that he never played on a frozen field during his entire career. Fran thinks the condition of TCF's field might be a problem for the players.

Thats the thing, you see these pictures of really cold weather, but the turf hasn't ever been frozen. The fields had heating underneath them by the 60's.

Yahoo article said that the turf is better now than when the gophers played Iowa. The snow has insulated it and it really isn't frozen. They are going to blow heat onto it under a tarp to keep it that way.

My only other thought is how expensive would it have been to add heaters when they built it. I can't imagine more than couple 100k. Really was a mistake.