Ben Johnson to have contract extended one year?

Some guy

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 1, 2014
Messages
14,369
Reaction score
5,470
Points
113
This is an important note. I saw people saying it with Pitino too (implying that he didn't have a good enough team to win).

I gave Ben a pass on talent last year.
This year, he is getting significantly less of a pass - that doesn't always mean wins but at least flashes.
Next year, we simply cannot make the excuse that the team isn't very good. Building the roster is part of his job.
Yup.
 

fan of Ray Williams

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 3, 2009
Messages
8,520
Reaction score
2,527
Points
113
This is an important note. I saw people saying it with Pitino too (implying that he didn't have a good enough team to win).

I gave Ben a pass on talent last year.
This year, he is getting significantly less of a pass - that doesn't always mean wins but at least flashes.
Next year, we simply cannot make the excuse that the team isn't very good. Building the roster is part of his job.
Ben claims he likes the roster he’s built for the coming season. Least that’s what I’m hearing from him. I’m expecting and think we will see an improved team. Trouble is, as we all know, these other Big teams aren’t adding mince meat. They are adding good players also. Really looking forward to next season to see how it plays out.
 

Dakota2

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 9, 2020
Messages
1,577
Reaction score
1,145
Points
113
Maybe on the court. Roster construction is also part of the job
He has done well with roster construction, including the first year with only the portal to work with. Willis, Battle, and Fox comprised a very good add given the program was in disrepute and not an attractive destination for transfers.

This year he added four solid recruits and another solid transfer group with Garcia included. His in-season coaching and roster building have both been good.
 

Some guy

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 1, 2014
Messages
14,369
Reaction score
5,470
Points
113
He has done well with roster construction, including the first year with only the portal to work with. Willis, Battle, and Fox comprised a very good add given the program was in disrepute and not an attractive destination for transfers.

This year he added four solid recruits and another solid transfer group with Garcia included. His in-season coaching and roster building have both been good.
Well enough to get 13th and be predicted for 12th!
 

Dakota2

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 9, 2020
Messages
1,577
Reaction score
1,145
Points
113
Well enough to get 13th and be predicted for 12th!
Is there a big difference for you between 12th and 13th or 10th and 12th? We hired a coach to restore a broken program. He is going to be here at minimum five years.

The objective is to get better each year and build through high school recruiting. Only if he falls flat on high school recruiting is there a chance he goes in less than five years.

Neither Coyle nor knowledgeable fans care what place we get in the conference until we reach the middle third of the pack and higher.
 


Some guy

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 1, 2014
Messages
14,369
Reaction score
5,470
Points
113
Is there a big difference for you between 12th and 13th or 10th and 12th? We hired a coach to restore a broken program. He is going to be here at minimum five years.

The objective is to get better each year and build through high school recruiting. Only if he falls flat on high school recruiting is there a chance he goes in less than five years.

Neither Coyle nor knowledgeable fans care what place we get in the conference until we reach the middle third of the pack and higher.
You’re right there is no difference. If we are anywhere 10-14 in two years he will be gone

The difference is I’m not claiming he has done a great job roster building
 

Gopher Teeth

Fear the Teeth
Joined
Nov 12, 2008
Messages
998
Reaction score
705
Points
93
Maybe not over achieving, but you have to agree that Ben exceeded many of the extremely low expectation of many.
Finishing in last place while losing your last five games can never be seen as over achieving, if it is just shut down the program.
 

BarnBurner

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 12, 2010
Messages
17,294
Reaction score
3,016
Points
113
Finishing in last place while losing your last five games can never be seen as over achieving, if it is just shut down the program.
To many here on GH, it was over achieving. Just look at the litany of posts regarding the body of work for this past season.
 

GopherWeatherGuy

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
11,676
Reaction score
6,868
Points
113
You’re right there is no difference. If we are anywhere 10-14 in two years he will be gone

The difference is I’m not claiming he has done a great job roster building

The defense of roster construction is laughable. It was poor last year, and it's poor at the guard position heading into this season. Ben is putting all of his eggs in the Ihnen basket becoming a player post knee injury that we've never seen before.
 



ecoperson

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 23, 2009
Messages
1,313
Reaction score
1,536
Points
113
What is the definition of overachieving? The dictionary defines it as "performing better or achieving more than is expected."

It doesn't add a qualifier for whether the expectations were low to begin with. The expectations of many of the 'experts' around here including me before last season included a handful of total wins in the non-conference and a freak win or two in conference.

The team was undefeated in the non-conference and had 4 conference wins. You can debate the state of the program and bitch and moan about why expectations were so low in the first place but Johnson and this team clearly exceeded the expectations that WE all placed on them. Quit moving the goal posts.
 



Bob_Loblaw

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 23, 2009
Messages
16,246
Reaction score
7,308
Points
113
What is the definition of overachieving? The dictionary defines it as "performing better or achieving more than is expected."

It doesn't add a qualifier for whether the expectations were low to begin with. The expectations of many of the 'experts' around here including me before last season included a handful of total wins in the non-conference and a freak win or two in conference.

The team was undefeated in the non-conference and had 4 conference wins. You can debate the state of the program and bitch and moan about why expectations were so low in the first place but Johnson and this team clearly exceeded the expectations that WE all placed on them. Quit moving the goal posts.
If anyone is interested, here is a thread in GH with people making predictions. Some of the folks saying he overachieved predicted more wins, but generally, we finished about where everyone thought.

 



Some guy

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 1, 2014
Messages
14,369
Reaction score
5,470
Points
113
The defense of roster construction is laughable. It was poor last year, and it's poor at the guard position heading into this season. Ben is putting all of his eggs in the Ihnen basket becoming a player post knee injury that we've never seen before.
I’m not saying he can’t be successful, I am saying anyone who says he has been successful already is kidding themselves
 

ecoperson

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 23, 2009
Messages
1,313
Reaction score
1,536
Points
113
If anyone is interested, here is a thread in GH with people making predictions. Some of the folks saying he overachieved predicted more wins, but generally, we finished about where everyone thought.

Thanks for finding this Bob. I knew it existed but couldn't find it. Your prediction was nearly perfect.

Most of the others predicted 10 or fewer victories total so we exceeded that by at least 30%. A large number suggested this team would have the worst Gopher record of all time.

One poster wrote "If we get 10 total wins this season, Ben should be up for National Coach of the Year with this roster."

As the team started to win in the non-con, posters began adjusting their expectations upward. As I recall, it was around this time that some unreasonable posters started thinking that this could be a tournament team.

Most of those whining about the team underachieving are reacting to those increased expectations not the preseason predictions. There is an interesting subset of posters who ragged on Johnson and the team before the season who then disappeared during most of the non-conference season. They magically reappeared when the team struggled to cope with injuries, health, and a limited bench.

I am one of the biggest homers on here and I could see that this team could be successful in conference play only if the stars and their moons aligned perfectly. With these slim margins, the team as constructed exceeded my expectations.
 

Some guy

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 1, 2014
Messages
14,369
Reaction score
5,470
Points
113
Thanks for finding this Bob. I knew it existed but couldn't find it. Your prediction was nearly perfect.

Most of the others predicted 10 or fewer victories total so we exceeded that by at least 30%. A large number suggested this team would have the worst Gopher record of all time.

One poster wrote "If we get 10 total wins this season, Ben should be up for National Coach of the Year with this roster."

As the team started to win in the non-con, posters began adjusting their expectations upward. As I recall, it was around this time that some unreasonable posters started thinking that this could be a tournament team.

Most of those whining about the team underachieving are reacting to those increased expectations not the preseason predictions. There is an interesting subset of posters who ragged on Johnson and the team before the season who then disappeared during most of the non-conference season. They magically reappeared when the team struggled to cope with injuries, health, and a limited bench.

I am one of the biggest homers on here and I could see that this team could be successful in conference play only if the stars and their moons aligned perfectly. With these slim margins, the team as constructed exceeded my expectations.
The team can exceed your expectations and be a disappointment at the same time.

For instance, the coach got the team to play above their talent IMO this year. A good sign.
The team was near the bottom of the conference, a disappointment


Outperforming your talent is good.
Having one of the worst rosters in the conference is bad.
 

Dakota2

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 9, 2020
Messages
1,577
Reaction score
1,145
Points
113
You’re right there is no difference. If we are anywhere 10-14 in two years he will be gone

The difference is I’m not claiming he has done a great job roster building
Neither am I claiming he has done a great job. He has done a good job.
 

Dakota2

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 9, 2020
Messages
1,577
Reaction score
1,145
Points
113
The defense of roster construction is laughable. It was poor last year, and it's poor at the guard position heading into this season. Ben is putting all of his eggs in the Ihnen basket becoming a player post knee injury that we've never seen before.
All of his eggs in the Ihnen basket? That's an absurd statement.
 

Dakota2

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 9, 2020
Messages
1,577
Reaction score
1,145
Points
113
What is the definition of overachieving? The dictionary defines it as "performing better or achieving more than is expected."

It doesn't add a qualifier for whether the expectations were low to begin with. The expectations of many of the 'experts' around here including me before last season included a handful of total wins in the non-conference and a freak win or two in conference.

The team was undefeated in the non-conference and had 4 conference wins. You can debate the state of the program and bitch and moan about why expectations were so low in the first place but Johnson and this team clearly exceeded the expectations that WE all placed on them. Quit moving the goal posts.
If goal posts weren't movable, some folks just wouldn't play.
 




ecoperson

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 23, 2009
Messages
1,313
Reaction score
1,536
Points
113
The team can exceed your expectations and be a disappointment at the same time.

For instance, the coach got the team to play above their talent IMO this year. A good sign.
The team was near the bottom of the conference, a disappointment


Outperforming your talent is good.
Having one of the worst rosters in the conference is bad.
I fully support your distinction. I was very disappointed in the overall quality of the roster last season and my expectations were low because of that. I was very impressed by what the coaching staff got out of this team, how they came together to compete when they were seriously outgunned, and how the team exceeded the number of wins that I expected. The team was still a disappointment but they far exceeded my expectations.
 


Spaulding!No!

Banned
Joined
Nov 22, 2019
Messages
4,927
Reaction score
2,072
Points
113
Within the NCAA, coach Ben has been a record setting loser. Past is prologue.
 

Gopher Teeth

Fear the Teeth
Joined
Nov 12, 2008
Messages
998
Reaction score
705
Points
93
What is the definition of overachieving? The dictionary defines it as "performing better or achieving more than is expected."

It doesn't add a qualifier for whether the expectations were low to begin with. The expectations of many of the 'experts' around here including me before last season included a handful of total wins in the non-conference and a freak win or two in conference.

The team was undefeated in the non-conference and had 4 conference wins. You can debate the state of the program and bitch and moan about why expectations were so low in the first place but Johnson and this team clearly exceeded the expectations that WE all placed on them. Quit moving the goal posts.
The context of this thread is about a contract extension for Ben and whether his work to date makes him worthy of that. Hiring a coach is about expectations for the program and if this coach can reach those expectations. Coyle and Ben's vision and expectations for the program, never included finishing in last place, ever. I know this because last year Ben guaranteed, to the media, that they would not finish last. So the expectations were not exceeded. I don't care about what a bunch of yahoos on a random website or what some random media person says, they are not and never were part of the contract process. When it comes to a contract, expectations are set by leadership (ones who put together the contract) and the person contracted to do the job.
 

ecoperson

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 23, 2009
Messages
1,313
Reaction score
1,536
Points
113
The context of this thread is about a contract extension for Ben and whether his work to date makes him worthy of that. Hiring a coach is about expectations for the program and if this coach can reach those expectations. Coyle and Ben's vision and expectations for the program, never included finishing in last place, ever. I know this because last year Ben guaranteed, to the media, that they would not finish last. So the expectations were not exceeded. I don't care about what a bunch of yahoos on a random website or what some random media person says, they are not and never were part of the contract process. When it comes to a contract, expectations are set by leadership (ones who put together the contract) and the person contracted to do the job.
His work to date makes him worthy of a contract extension because this is the nature of compensation of coaches in NCAA D1 hoops. If you don't screw up royally, you are in line for a 1-year extension to ensure that you always have 5 years remaining on your contract. This is especially common for coaches early in their contracts. These extensions are the cost of doing business to ensure that recruits are not afraid to sign on the dotted line.

Johnson may have 'guaranteed' that the team wouldn't finish last before the season but, if you listened to the whole interview, he also added the requisite qualifiers. IF they stay together... IF they stay health, etc.

A coach can never come out and tell the media that they are going to finish last. It will hurt at the box office, in recruiting, and in the locker room. A coach in Johnson's situation did exactly what they should do... talk up their team to show them that he has faith in them then include the qualifying statements to provide the necessary cover in case things go amiss.

As for expectations, nearly EVERY fan and EVERY media outlet had this team finishing last in conference and finishing about .500 in the non-conference. This outlook was not limited to GopherHole pundits.

Johnson and his staff assembled a bunch of mid-major players and made them play like a competitive basketball team despite a host of challenges in year 1. Last year's relative 'success' as well as simply having a year under his belt as a head coach means that the expectations are now RAISED.

The training wheels are off... let's see what Johnson and company can do with a team of more talented individual players. If he can replicate the success in quickly building team unity along with the game planning that we saw glimpses of last year, I think we will have a much better idea about whether he will be able to move this program towards long term respectability.

Go Gophers!
 

leib0039

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 14, 2019
Messages
928
Reaction score
1,292
Points
93
His work to date makes him worthy of a contract extension because this is the nature of compensation of coaches in NCAA D1 hoops. If you don't screw up royally, you are in line for a 1-year extension to ensure that you always have 5 years remaining on your contract. This is especially common for coaches early in their contracts. These extensions are the cost of doing business to ensure that recruits are not afraid to sign on the dotted line.
20 years ago I buy this, today I have to think under 5% of kids go in thinking "ok well who is going to be my coach in 4-5 years when I am here" These kids all either think they are going to the NBA or leave at the first sign of adversity. I think its right in line with "its a big deal team X is the first D1 or Power 5 offer" thats just not a thing anymore.

Sure you cant have a lame duck coach with 1 maybe 2 years left but I think saying its a must to have at least 5+ left is also a misnomer. and if you think it is, then give them the deal out of the gate because it makes 0 sense to do it after 1 year finishing last.
 

ecoperson

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 23, 2009
Messages
1,313
Reaction score
1,536
Points
113
20 years ago I buy this, today I have to think under 5% of kids go in thinking "ok well who is going to be my coach in 4-5 years when I am here" These kids all either think they are going to the NBA or leave at the first sign of adversity. I think its right in line with "its a big deal team X is the first D1 or Power 5 offer" thats just not a thing anymore.

Sure you cant have a lame duck coach with 1 maybe 2 years left but I think saying its a must to have at least 5+ left is also a misnomer. and if you think it is, then give them the deal out of the gate because it makes 0 sense to do it after 1 year finishing last.
Johnson had an original 5 year deal. After his first year, they have extended the deal by 1 year at the same terms so that it is, in essence, a 5 year deal. Coyle has done this with Fleck and a lot of other coaches.

Coyle will likely keep doing this with Johnson every year early on until it is clear whether he has the chops for the gig. If he is a success, he will be rewarded. If he is not, he will not get an annual extension and will clearly be on the hot seat.

Your first paragraph has some truth to it but speaks with broad brush strokes, a dash of condescension, and a little cynicism. Most college athletes who will sign on the dotted line with the U likely have enough self-awareness to know the weaknesses in their games and understand that they are not a shoe in for the league.

Many college athletes and, most certainly, their parents or mentors are very attuned to the contract status of the coach because they know that they are likely to be there 4 years or more.

The first D1 P5 offer likely carries more weight for the less highly recruited athlete... especially if they build a strong relationship with the coaching staff because of the offer.
 

EG#9

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
6,954
Reaction score
1,324
Points
113
I saw this last week, and my anger for this absolute joke of a program has turned more and more towards apathy in the last few years. If leadership is this inept, there's just no chance. From keeping Pitino far too long to hiring Ben Johnson, to now extending him... just WTF?

One point: The extension matters. It was just a year ago that we supposedly couldn't afford Pitino's buyout which had to be among the lowest of all power 5 coaches at just a million and change. This absolutely adds a year to when (if necessary) the University can fire Ben Johnson. On the other hand, if he succeeds, the University will raise/extend him by 2024.
 




Top Bottom