Ben Johnson is NOT a disaster....

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golfing18now said:
Consider the following comments made during/after the win in Ann Arbor.....

"Still a long way to go, but this Gopher team is so very well coached and fundamentally sound."

"I need to see more apology threads regarding the Ben Johnson thread. Glad I had an open mind and gave him a shot"

"might lose, but this Johnson led team seems different than other gopher teams, kind of like Fleck teams have changed football"

"Coach Ben! A shrewd hire by Coyle!"

“They’re bigger, faster, stronger, more experienced and on paper, they’re just better. And they know it too. But I wanna tell you one thing that they don’t know. They don’t know your heart. I do. I’ve seen it.”

"Are we for real yet haters?"

The comments went on and on. These were comments made after the Michigan win two years ago. It becomes too easy to overreact to a single win or a single loss. We now know he lost 32 of the next 37 conference games. I don't think it is a particularly indefensible position to want to see a few more wins before declaring we have arrived given the overall track record. I'm happy with the way they are playing and hope it continues. But having this viewpoint does not make a person a "joyless asshat" as another poster cited in this thread. The "joyless asshats" are the posters that can't listen to other viewpoints.

EDIT: my comment is not really directed at you MNVCGUIY.
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Two things:

1) You're mistakenly characterizing some posters as part of a group of well-intentioned skeptics. You're wrong! Some of these people are intractable haters with a burning desire to see this coach fail. Now, some of them are trying to disguise that these days (probably out of a fear of becoming personae non gratae) but they forget that some of us have good memories of what they've written over the past year.

2) Are you actually watching the games this season? You talk like someone who hasn't watched many. If you had watched most or all of these games with an open mind you might be a little more enthusiastic about this team's development instead of digging up comments from old threads in an effort to dampen others' enthusiasm. We don't need you to dampen our enthusiasm. If things go south that will happen without your assistance.

I've frequently complimented you on these pages about being a gentleman but it occurs to me lately that you're always defending the wrong side and wrong people. Like my grandmother used to say: "Show me who your friends are and I'll show you who you are."
 

EasyThere Pilgrim said:
I always hate this argument. Holding the first 2 seasons against a coach who inherited a dumpster fire. A lot of guys quote overall record with no regard to how it's trending trending...I don't like that.

The 3rd season is when you start to get an idea.

Haskins, Fleck, etc.
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Reuse made this exact point in his column Saturday, about how Ben Johnson started from zero. Those who insist on ignoring that have disliked him from the beginning. We were not going to get a big-name established coach to take this job. Most reasonable people expect that it takes 3-4 years to build a D-1 program. Minnesota is not and never will be a recruiting Mecca.
 

Go4POV said:
Reuse made this exact point in his column Saturday, about how Ben Johnson started from zero. Those who insist on ignoring that have disliked him from the beginning. We were not going to get a big-name established coach to take this job. Most reasonable people expect that it takes 3-4 years to build a D-1 program. Minnesota is not and never will be a recruiting Mecca.
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Let me say this 1st before all the Gopher fans who are blinded by their loyalty attack you.

How dare you say Minnesota is not and never will be a recruiting Mecca!
 


Go4POV said:
Reuse made this exact point in his column Saturday, about how Ben Johnson started from zero. Those who insist on ignoring that have disliked him from the beginning. We were not going to get a big-name established coach to take this job. Most reasonable people expect that it takes 3-4 years to build a D-1 program. Minnesota is not and never will be a recruiting Mecca.
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Oh, now Pat is acceptable to listen to?

No need for Mecca. Mn can be just as good as that Mecca in Iowa, Ames.
 

TwistingMyMelon said:
Two things:

1) You're mistakenly characterizing some posters as part of a group of well-intentioned skeptics. You're wrong! Some of these people are intractable haters with a burning desire to see this coach fail. Now, some of them are trying to disguise that these days (probably out of a fear of becoming personae non gratae) but they forget that some of us have good memories of what they've written over the past year.
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GopherJake said:
That said, the way I see it, there are indeed a few “joyless asshats” here. These are the ones that are blatantly or thinly veiled-ly (?) rooting for failure, all in the name of — so they can assert they were right and “you” (generic) were wrong. As someone above said, they are dug in and it doesn’t matter that they actually want success. They have to root for failure.
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OK. I will concede this point. There are undoubtedly people on both sides of this argument that post this way. But you are both likely right that at least a few would rather be correct than see the Gophers succeed under this leadership. I will hedge a little bit by saying you (general) should know what you are getting when clicking on the "Ben Johnson is a Disaster" thread. If/when that sentiment starts to permeate every other thread, that can be annoying.

TwistingMyMelon said:
2) Are you actually watching the games this season? You talk like someone who hasn't watched many. If you had watched most or all of these games with an open mind you might be a little more enthusiastic about this team's development instead of digging up comments from old threads in an effort to dampen others' enthusiasm. We don't need you to dampen our enthusiasm. If things go south that will happen without your assistance.
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My intent for bringing up comments from a two year old thread was really not to be a wet blanket. Frankly, it was more to give an example of how one or two games can lead to irrational conclusions. I could have done the same thing with comments going the other direction after the secret scrimmage this year and how that game was a precursor for the entire season. I intentionally omitted the names of the posters that had those opinions two years ago as I didn't want to get into a tit for tat argument. It was meant to be a broader example.

Regarding this year's performance, I haven't seen all the games (including Michigan due to no Peacock). From what I have seen, they have looked better. But the non-conference schedule he put together (362 out of 362) is embarrassing this year. "We play the games on the schedule" excuse doesn't work in college basketball as it does in other sports when you put together your own non-conference schedule. A big ten team should look effective against teams that are clearly outmatched physically and talent-wise. In that sense, I have felt we have really only had a handful of relevant data points thus far this year.

TwistingMyMelon said:
I've frequently complimented you on these pages about being a gentleman but it occurs to me lately that you're always defending the wrong side and wrong people. Like my grandmother used to say: "Show me who your friends are and I'll show you who you are."
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Lastly, I try to align with the opinions that I agree with as opposed to aligning with a specific group of fellow anonymous posters. So I'm not sure what "wrong people" means in that context. I'll readily admit that my viewpoints on Ben Johnson may slant more negative than they (should?) but I'm really in the "I need to see more" camp at this point.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Lot of season left and things could go sideways....but from what I have seen to this point I don't see Johnson getting canned at the end of this season. I don't know if he will prove to be the guy but maybe.....just maybe.....he isn't the disaster that some have him pegged to be.
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When does the title get updated?????????????
 












The team is 5th in the country on assists with our point guard #1 in the nation. Hawkins had tons of turnovers at this last school and at the beginning of this year. Johnson coached him. Our team was last in FTs last year, this year we are average. We pass the ball, we move, we work as a team. Our 2021-22 team had no depth so injuries were going to ruin us (plus it forces to play people injured). Our depth will keep players from getting injured (and also tired). This is a really fun team to watch. While I questioned Johnson's in-game coaching abilities after the Missouri game, I have seen him out-coach his opponents in the Nebraska, Michigan and Maryland games. He's made good halftime adjustments. His players listen to him. These are the marks of a good coach. While Pitino could recruit, he could not coach in-game. It was hard to watch his teams. I like this team because they play beyond their potential by playing together. While we haven't beaten a top big 10 team yet and we may not this year, I am optimistic about our future. BTW, Johnson is also a good talent recruiter....he knows exactly which Minnesota players he wants and gets ones that play beyond their rankings and doesn't offer some who don't turn out as good as their rankings.
 

PhiloVance said:
Let me say this 1st before all the Gopher fans who are blinded by their loyalty attack you.

How dare you say Minnesota is not and never will be a recruiting Mecca!
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Right!? Suggs, Holmgren, Jones, Coffey, Przybilla.....
 

CoMn said:
The team is 5th in the country on assists with our point guard #1 in the nation. Hawkins had tons of turnovers at this last school and at the beginning of this year. Johnson coached him. Our team was last in FTs last year, this year we are average. We pass the ball, we move, we work as a team. Our 2021-22 team had no depth so injuries were going to ruin us (plus it forces to play people injured). Our depth will keep players from getting injured (and also tired). This is a really fun team to watch. While I questioned Johnson's in-game coaching abilities after the Missouri game, I have seen him out-coach his opponents in the Nebraska, Michigan and Maryland games. He's made good halftime adjustments. His players listen to him. These are the marks of a good coach. While Pitino could recruit, he could not coach in-game. It was hard to watch his teams. I like this team because they play beyond their potential by playing together. While we haven't beaten a top big 10 team yet and we may not this year, I am optimistic about our future. BTW, Johnson is also a good talent recruiter....he knows exactly which Minnesota players he wants and gets ones that play beyond their rankings and doesn't offer some who don't turn out as good as their rankings.
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THIS.
 




Bayfieldgopher said:
There are a very small number of us here who have been supportive of Ben through the tough times and do not like the taste of crow. Hope you stick around long enough to enjoy the crow.
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Imagine taking issue with that. Charmin soft.

I’ll be sure to wash your feet while I’m eating my crow after we win the big ten.
 

there are really two separate issues at work here:

1. Ben Johnson's ability as a coach and

2. some people believe Johnson never should have been hired because he didn't have the qualifications - he may have been a "diversity" hire - and/or they wanted a different coach

the people who just don't think he can coach may change their mind if the team wins enough games.

the second group is probably never going to change their minds about the hiring. But if the team wins enough games, I hope that they will at least give Johnson some grudging respect - even if they would rather have seen someone else get the job.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
there are really two separate issues at work here:

1. Ben Johnson's ability as a coach and

2. some people believe Johnson never should have been hired because he didn't have the qualifications - he may have been a "diversity" hire - and/or they wanted a different coach

the people who just don't think he can coach may change their mind if the team wins enough games.

the second group is probably never going to change their minds about the hiring. But if the team wins enough games, I hope that they will at least give Johnson some grudging respect - even if they would rather have seen someone else get the job.
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The crowd in group 2 will take a lot longer to convince but if the team starts winning at a high level even the most negative about the hire will come around because in the end we all want to see the program succeed.
 

Thought he’s done a good job with substitutions the last couple of games. Really, really squeezing a lot of Fox guarding the 5 and getting Payne some rest. Same with Carrington yesterday. I’m always wishing he would have picked up one more solid player from the portal, but knowing me, I will be saying that every coming year. Lot of season left and my opinion changes quicker than Hawkins can change direction with his dribble.
 


fan of Ray Williams said:
Thought he’s done a good job with substitutions the last couple of games. Really, really squeezing a lot of Fox guarding the 5 and getting Payne some rest. Same with Carrington yesterday. I’m always wishing he would have picked up one more solid player from the portal, but knowing me, I will be saying that every coming year. Lot of season left and my opinion changes quicker than Hawkins can change direction with his dribble.
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Another solid player is likely putting Fox or Ihnen on the bench. With all the TV timeouts and breaks, it's hard to play more than 8-9 guys.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
Another solid player is likely putting Fox or Ihnen on the bench. With all the TV timeouts and breaks, it's hard to play more than 8-9 guys.
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Yeah, 8-9 regulars is pretty ideal, really tough to find quality minutes for more players than that.

The unfortunate part is that we are likely to be in a lot of close games which means it is going to be tough to find good minutes for guys like Betts to get game experience.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Yeah, 8-9 regulars is pretty ideal, really tough to find quality minutes for more players than that.

The unfortunate part is that we are likely to be in a lot of close games which means it is going to be tough to find good minutes for guys like Betts to get game experience.
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Betts looks like a 3rd-5th year guy if he sticks around.
 


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