Ben Johnson is NOT a disaster....

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MNVCGUY said:
At this point I will be shocked if Johnson is not brought back for year 4 There is a ton of potential on this roster but the only way that potential is realized is if the group stays together.

Christie, Payne and JOJ could all develop into star players in the Big Ten. Keep the bulk of the roster, add Asuma and fill in with the portal.....24-25 team could be really good.

If Johnson gets fired.....Christie, Payne and JOJ almost certainly hit the portal and once again we are starting over.

As bad as the first 2 years were....to me....we are seeing enough in year 3 to justify a year 4 and I will be surprised it that isn't what ends up happening.
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The rest of the season matters. 4-7 conference wins isn't getting it done, certainly.
 

howeda7 said:
The rest of the season matters. 4-7 conference wins isn't getting it done, certainly.
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7 might. That is the turning point number. Not for me, but for Coyle and the administration, IMO. If Ben is arguably close to turning it, they won't axe him. Last night was huge for him and I think gives him the edge to make it to 7 or better.
 

bga1 said:
7 might. That is the turning point number. Not for me, but for Coyle and the administration, IMO. If Ben is arguably close to turning it, they won't axe him. Last night was huge for him and I think gives him the edge to make it to 7 or better.
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7 is kind of the nightmare #. Not nearly good enough, but probably enough to give them an excuse to drag it out another year. Hopefully 8 +
 

as much as just the raw numbers, I think that the decision will also hinge on whether the program is perceived to be moving in a positive direction. that will mean (IMHO) winning home games and drawing better crowds; not blowing leads; and maybe most importantly, what happens in the post-season.

a couple of wins in the Conference Tournament would put a much better shine on the season. and making a post-season tournament - the NCAA (long shot) or the NIT (better chance).

If the Gophers can win 2 or 3 games in the conference tournament, and/or do something in the NIT, it makes it a lot harder for Coyle to dump Johnson.
 

fan of Ray Williams said:
After too much damage was done, thought Ben made a good move when he started having Garcia bring it up. As soon as I thought that, Garcia turned it over. Oh well, worked for a spell, but then they still had to try and get into their offense.
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Yep, it had worked until it didn’t. They hadn’t been pressuring Garcia before then so he must have been caught off guard. Oddly enough, I think Hawkins was in the game when Garcia turned it over. Glad the other guards steadied it for the most part in the second.
 


bc2211 said:
Yep, it had worked until it didn’t. They hadn’t been pressuring Garcia before then so he must have been caught off guard. Oddly enough, I think Hawkins was in the game when Garcia turned it over. Glad the other guards steadied it for the most part in the second.
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Astute observation. It happened during Hawkins 6 second reappearance.
 


howeda7 said:
The rest of the season matters. 4-7 conference wins isn't getting it done, certainly.
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Clearly the rest of the season matters and if the team goes in the tank and loses most of their remaining games Johnson will get fired....but that seems unlikely to happen and this point.

For Coyle it is about deciding if Johnson can build and lead a competitive Big Ten level team. To me, we are seeing signs this year that he can. We have young players who seem to have a high upside and the team is competing against pretty much everyone.

There has been some frustrating inconsistency but that has been balanced with some really high level play as well.

If they keep Johnson around it won't be about dragging it out another year but rather it will be about believing they have a guy in place who can get it done.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Clearly the rest of the season matters and if the team goes in the tank and loses most of their remaining games Johnson will get fired....but that seems unlikely to happen and this point.

For Coyle it is about deciding if Johnson can build and lead a competitive Big Ten level team. To me, we are seeing signs this year that he can. We have young players who seem to have a high upside and the team is competing against pretty much everyone.

There has been some frustrating inconsistency but that has been balanced with some really high level play as well.

If they keep Johnson around it won't be about dragging it out another year but rather it will be about believing they have a guy in place who can get it done.
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Next four games are Northwestern, MSU, @iowa, @Purdue. They have to win one of the first two or we're likely looking at another 4 game losing streak.
 




bga1 said:
7 might. That is the turning point number. Not for me, but for Coyle and the administration, IMO. If Ben is arguably close to turning it, they won't axe him. Last night was huge for him and I think gives him the edge to make it to 7 or better.
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The team is improved and competitive. There is not a chance of a coaching team when things are improving.
 


I still think ben is over his head.. and ever since this non conference was announced it all came down to B1G play... They are improved to the point where I concede Ben WILL get a 4th yr regardless to what the record states.. when this team is on... They are fun as hell to watch/listen too
 




howeda7 said:
7 is kind of the nightmare #. Not nearly good enough, but probably enough to give them an excuse to drag it out another year. Hopefully 8 +
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Ben 10.

And not Alien Force. 10W's would be nice. If the second half team shows up for the entire game, I think it is achievable.
 








I wish I could be this bad at my job and stay employed. This is the most brilliant tactic one could think of. Be so bad in your first two years that anything better than "terrible" looks like improvement. Pitino goes 8-12 and 6-14 in his last two years and gets fired. Now CBJ look like he might eek out 7 wins and the parades are already being planned.

I like Payne and Christie. Hawkins and Mitchell have been good (mostly). They are good players, not transcendent players. But any anxiety about losing players due to a coaching change is asinine. They'll be gone in 1-2 years (or potentially sooner). You do not hold onto a coach because a player or two. And even with those "high potential" players, the best case scenario when looking at the schedule (IMO) is 8 wins and most likely scenario is another Weakling Wednesday appearance. And losing that "momentum" is freaking some out? You may need to see a professional if that's triggering anxiety for you.
 


MNVCGUY said:
Clearly the rest of the season matters and if the team goes in the tank and loses most of their remaining games Johnson will get fired....but that seems unlikely to happen and this point.

For Coyle it is about deciding if Johnson can build and lead a competitive Big Ten level team. To me, we are seeing signs this year that he can. We have young players who seem to have a high upside and the team is competing against pretty much everyone.

There has been some frustrating inconsistency but that has been balanced with some really high level play as well.

If they keep Johnson around it won't be about dragging it out another year but rather it will be about believing they have a guy in place who can get it done.
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Exactly right.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Let's pop the champaign, the Gophers are 1-4 over their last 5 games. Look at all of that improvement.
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You are going to have to forgive those of us that are finding ways to enjoy the season and actually finding some reasons to be excited for the potential future of this team. No Champagne popping at the moment but I'm having fun watching this team this year.
 

forever a gopher said:
I wish I could be this bad at my job and stay employed. This is the most brilliant tactic one could think of. Be so bad in your first two years that anything better than "terrible" looks like improvement. Pitino goes 8-12 and 6-14 in his last two years and gets fired. Now CBJ look like he might eek out 7 wins and the parades are already being planned.

I like Payne and Christie. Hawkins and Mitchell have been good (mostly). They are good players, not transcendent players. But any anxiety about losing players due to a coaching change is asinine. They'll be gone in 1-2 years (or potentially sooner). You do not hold onto a coach because a player or two. And even with those "high potential" players, the best case scenario when looking at the schedule (IMO) is 8 wins and most likely scenario is another Weakling Wednesday appearance. And losing that "momentum" is freaking some out? You may need to see a professional if that's triggering anxiety for you.
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I am torn on what should or will happen if he gets 7-8 wins. One could easily say- well with the portal, the new guy can reload and be good right away. But that may well not be reality here at the U of M. Reloading through the portal takes money and perhaps a lot of it. Unless you get a big name replacement I have no idea where that money would come from. If Ben is on the edge (an edge that is unacceptable to most here) I just find it difficult to believe that they will dump him. Do we want to melt it down and start over again?
 

MNVCGUY said:
You are going to have to forgive those of us that are finding ways to enjoy the season and actually finding some reasons to be excited for the potential future of this team. No Champagne popping at the moment but I'm having fun watching this team this year.
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I'm getting more enjoyment out of watching this year's team too. That doesn't mean they are good or that Ben suddenly deserves to keep his job. He has a long ways to go yet this year to prove that.
 

forever a gopher said:
I wish I could be this bad at my job and stay employed. This is the most brilliant tactic one could think of. Be so bad in your first two years that anything better than "terrible" looks like improvement. Pitino goes 8-12 and 6-14 in his last two years and gets fired. Now CBJ look like he might eek out 7 wins and the parades are already being planned.

I like Payne and Christie. Hawkins and Mitchell have been good (mostly). They are good players, not transcendent players. But any anxiety about losing players due to a coaching change is asinine. They'll be gone in 1-2 years (or potentially sooner). You do not hold onto a coach because a player or two. And even with those "high potential" players, the best case scenario when looking at the schedule (IMO) is 8 wins and most likely scenario is another Weakling Wednesday appearance. And losing that "momentum" is freaking some out? You may need to see a professional if that's triggering anxiety for you.
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Relax and enjoy the ride.
 

forever a gopher said:
I wish I could be this bad at my job and stay employed.
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Ever helped build company? Ever build a department within an existing company?
Are you an entrepreneur, so you started your own company?

I’m asking as I’m wondering what measuring stick you’re using?
forever a gopher said:
This is the most brilliant tactic one could think of. Be so bad in your first two years that anything better than "terrible" looks like improvement. Pitino goes 8-12 and 6-14 in his last two years and gets fired. Now CBJ look like he might eke out 7 wins and the parades are already being planned.

I like Payne and Christie. Hawkins and Mitchell have been good (mostly). They are good players, not transcendent players. But any anxiety about losing players due to a coaching change is asinine. They'll be gone in 1-2 years (or potentially sooner). You do not hold onto a coach because a player or two. And even with those "high potential" players, the best case scenario when looking at the schedule (IMO) is 8 wins and most likely scenario is another Weakling Wednesday appearance. And losing that "momentum" is freaking some out? You may need to see a professional if that's triggering anxiety for you.
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