Ben Johnson is a Disaster

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Zeppelin Gopher said:
It truly must be exhausting to be this pessimistic and stubborn to be proven right. Seems like a miserable fan experience
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Sure, but as long as they keep it in this thread, I don't care. I figure that assholes should be entitled to one thread to spout whatever kind of miserable garbage they want.
 


There are certain posters on this forum that will never admit that Ben Johnson is a good coach with a wealth of basketball knowledge. His players genuinely like him and want to play for him. They are a cohesive unit with no quit. A big part of coaching is recruiting and managing personnel.

BTW, as far as I’m concerned you can save your energy and skip disparaging me for posting this, because I don’t care what the haters think.
 

Go4POV said:
There are certain posters on this forum that will never admit that Ben Johnson is a good coach with a wealth of basketball knowledge. His players genuinely like him and want to play for him. They are a cohesive unit with no quit. A big part of coaching is recruiting and managing personnel.

BTW, as far as I’m concerned you can save your energy and skip disparaging me for posting this, because I don’t care what the haters think.
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Part of my CBJ manifesto is about how he empowers his players to step up and make shots. Some call this a lack of offensive scheme, but I think it's just a different style that Ben will refine over time.
 



GFBfan said:
It's not about an incorrect statement, it's more about you can't make one without throwing some negative aspect, especially from the prior two years, into any statement you make.
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On this board, sure. This is about Ben being a disaster overall into his 3rd year, which is still a fact.

That's separate from enjoying this season more, which thankfully has been better than the last two.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
We're thinking about a bid? Between the rest of the regular season and the BTT, this team needs another 9 wins to even think about a NCAA tournament bid.
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I think 21-10 12-8 gets them in. That's 7 more wins. Still unlikely but that would mean they won at least two road games against Iowa /Purdue /Illinois /Nebraska /NW and beat Michigan State
 

CentralGopher said:
Yep, it looks pretty likely he gets at least a fourth year.

That said, I’m still not seeing how this team makes a jump to make the tourney next year. Will they improve? No doubt but so will others. I could be and hope I am actually wrong but other than Christy I don’t see a player on this team that really gets a ton better. Carrington seems to have taken a small step back this year so maybe next year he makes a larger step. Payne I think is who he is.

After watching Ihnen yesterday I’d be tempted to give every one of his minutes to Betts. Dude just floats looking for threes and gives us nothing else. With his size he should be in the paint more.
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Here's how razor thin success is. We had the Wisconsin game in our grasp. If we had won that one, Wisconsin would be 7-4 and we'd be 6-4 and sitting in 4th. This team is close to being a really good team. You can't see where the improvement in year 3 of Payne and Christie could catapult this team? Or the right portal transfer? Or the addition of Asuma as depth at PG?
 




howeda7 said:
I think 21-10 12-8 gets them in. That's 7 more wins. Still unlikely but that would mean they won at least two road games against Iowa /Purdue /Illinois /Nebraska /NW and beat Michigan State
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I don't think even 12-8 gets them unless they beat both Illinois and Purdue on the road. Even still I don't think they could afford to lose their first BTT game.

They could still get to 12-8 in the conference without beating a ranked team the entire season. Their best wins would be Northwestern, Nebraska, Maryland, and maybe Michigan St. That's not getting them in without a run in the BTT.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
I don't think even 12-8 gets them unless they beat both Illinois and Purdue on the road. Even still I don't think they could afford to lose their first BTT game.

They could still get to 12-8 in the conference without beating a ranked team the entire season. Their best wins would be Northwestern, Nebraska, Maryland, and maybe Michigan St. That's not getting them in without a run in the BTT.
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There's a decent chance both road wins would be quad 1 regardless (maybe not Iowa) and Michigan State could as well. So they could potentially have 5 Q1 wins depending on how Nebraska and MSU end up.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
I don't think even 12-8 gets them unless they beat both Illinois and Purdue on the road. Even still I don't think they could afford to lose their first BTT game.

They could still get to 12-8 in the conference without beating a ranked team the entire season. Their best wins would be Northwestern, Nebraska, Maryland, and maybe Michigan St. That's not getting them in without a run in the BTT.
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I think it would be close. 12-8 in conference would be hard to ignore but youre right that not winning any of the clear cut 3 biggest games plus the non con would make it a tough case.

Its hard to know though because who knows where our NET sits and other teams as well.

Unfortunately OSU is dangerously close to dropping to a Q2 loss and the return game at home would now be Q3 if that happens. Michigan with their meltdown is also going to drop to Q3 if they keep getting blitzed.
 



GopherWeatherGuy said:
On this board, sure. This is about Ben being a disaster overall into his 3rd year, which is still a fact.

That's separate from enjoying this season more, which thankfully has been better than the last two.
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So why not point out some of the things that CBJ and the team are doing well this year just to keep it intellectually honest? Him not being disaster this year would be a good place to start.

Just pointing out that he sucked last year makes you sound like the wife that complains about that vacuum cleaner she got for her birthday 10 years ago. At a certain point he's not the problem anymore - its you.
 


bga1 said:
Here's how razor thin success is. We had the Wisconsin game in our grasp. If we had won that one, Wisconsin would be 7-4 and we'd be 6-4 and sitting in 4th. This team is close to being a really good team. You can't see where the improvement in year 3 of Payne and Christie could catapult this team? Or the right portal transfer? Or the addition of Asuma as depth at PG?
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If all other Big 10 teams stay exactly the same then yes but we know that isn’t the case.
 



CPTMidnight said:
So why not point out some of the things that CBJ and the team are doing well this year just to keep it intellectually honest? Him not being disaster this year would be a good place to start.

Just pointing out that he sucked last year makes you sound like the wife that complains about that vacuum cleaner she got for her birthday 10 years ago. At a certain point he's not the problem anymore - its you.
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I have said this team is better than I thought this season several times.

Since we're keeping it 'intellectually honest' what has Ben been accomplished so far in 2.5 years that makes him not a disaster? Just getting back to the level of the underwhelming Pitino teams is not an accomplishment.

Ben was hired to be better than Pitino and some of his other predecessors. So far he has been worse by every metric, even after a 'better' season so far this year.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
I have said this team is better than I thought this season several times.

Since we're keeping it 'intellectually honest' what has Ben been accomplished so far in 2.5 years that makes him not a disaster? Just getting back to the level of the underwhelming Pitino teams is not an accomplishment.

Ben was hired to be better than Pitino and some of his other predecessors. So far he has been worse by every metric, even after a 'better' season so far this year.
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Some of us are willing to move past the first two years and view this as our first real look at the kind of team Johnson can assemble and lead.....others are not.

If this year's team can hold serve at home (5 very winnable home games left on the schedule) they will go at least 10-10 in conference play. Nothing to plan a parade route over but also not something to be taken for granted as Pitino went .500 or better in conference play one time in 8 years. Tubby did it twice and Monson did it 3 times.

And we have the potential to be even better next year if they can keep this group together and add to it.

The first two years were brutal....there is no getting around it. First time coach, injuries, roster upheaval, it was a mess across the board.

Year 3 on the other hand has brought about a much deeper team that looks like it can be competitive against most teams. Johnson has shown he can recruit quality players (Payne, Christie....) and he has brought in some good transfers as well.

Jury is still out on Johnson but even the most cynical should be able to understand why many of us are very encouraged by what we are seeing this year so far.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
I have said this team is better than I thought this season several times.

Since we're keeping it 'intellectually honest' what has Ben been accomplished so far in 2.5 years that makes him not a disaster? Just getting back to the level of the underwhelming Pitino teams is not an accomplishment.

Ben was hired to be better than Pitino and some of his other predecessors. So far he has been worse by every metric, even after a 'better' season so far this year.
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I am asking for your opinion on the things he has been doing right recently. Is that beyond your level of basketball prowess?
 

MNVCGUY said:
Some of us are willing to move past the first two years and view this as our first real look at the kind of team Johnson can assemble and lead.....others are not.

If this year's team can hold serve at home (5 very winnable home games left on the schedule) they will go at least 10-10 in conference play. Nothing to plan a parade route over but also not something to be taken for granted as Pitino went .500 or better in conference play one time in 8 years. Tubby did it twice and Monson did it 3 times.

And we have the potential to be even better next year if they can keep this group together and add to it.

The first two years were brutal....there is no getting around it. First time coach, injuries, roster upheaval, it was a mess across the board.

Year 3 on the other hand has brought about a much deeper team that looks like it can be competitive against most teams. Johnson has shown he can recruit quality players (Payne, Christie....) and he has brought in some good transfers as well.

Jury is still out on Johnson but even the most cynical should be able to understand why many of us are very encouraged by what we are seeing this year so far.
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You can't just throw out the first two years, that's not how it works. And if this is a real look at the type of team BJ can assemble, it's somewhat comparable to Pitino's last two teams, the teams he was fired for. Although this team still hasn't beaten anyone on the level that those two teams did in a much better B1G conference.

I still think 10 B1G wins this season is a longshot. I've also said if he gets to 10 wins, he deserves another year even if I was doing the hiring/firing. I think he only has to get to 8 for the U to keep him, and he should get to that number thanks to Saturday's win. Then he'll have to get to the NCAA tournament next year to keep his job.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Some of us are willing to move past the first two years and view this as our first real look at the kind of team Johnson can assemble and lead.....others are not.

If this year's team can hold serve at home (5 very winnable home games left on the schedule) they will go at least 10-10 in conference play. Nothing to plan a parade route over but also not something to be taken for granted as Pitino went .500 or better in conference play one time in 8 years. Tubby did it twice and Monson did it 3 times.

And we have the potential to be even better next year if they can keep this group together and add to it.

The first two years were brutal....there is no getting around it. First time coach, injuries, roster upheaval, it was a mess across the board.

Year 3 on the other hand has brought about a much deeper team that looks like it can be competitive against most teams. Johnson has shown he can recruit quality players (Payne, Christie....) and he has brought in some good transfers as well.

Jury is still out on Johnson but even the most cynical should be able to understand why many of us are very encouraged by what we are seeing this year so far.
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Again, there needs to be context added to this. In Pitino's last year there were 9 teams ranked in the top 50 of the NET. This year there are only 4(as of now) and three of those teams we only play once.

I'm glad we're improved, but if we do reach 10 conference wins, while getting just 1 Q1 win, I think that says more about the state of the B1G than it does our overall performance. Let me reiterate, we are improved, and this season has been more fun obviously, but I do think context matters, when looking at overall performance.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
You can't just throw out the first two years, that's not how it works. And if this is a real look at the type of team BJ can assemble, it's somewhat comparable to Pitino's last two teams, the teams he was fired for. Although this team still hasn't beaten anyone on the level that those two teams did in a much better B1G conference.

I still think 10 B1G wins this season is a longshot. I've also said if he gets to 10 wins, he deserves another year even if I was doing the hiring/firing. I think he only has to get to 8 for the U to keep him, and he should get to that number thanks to Saturday's win. Then he'll have to get to the NCAA tournament next year to keep his job.
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Nobody is saying you throw out the first 2 years but you should cut a coach some slack for their first few years at a new place, especially when that coach is a first time head coach who is learning on the job and navigating a crazy landscape in terms of player movement/payment, unlike anything we have really ever seen in college sports.

But hey....to each their own. Some want to focus on the positive and look to the future, others want to dwell on the past and refuse to move past it.

Pitino wasn't fired for his last two teams, he was fired for his entire body of work over 8 seasons.
 


Gophers7633 said:
Again, there needs to be context added to this. In Pitino's last year there were 9 teams ranked in the top 50 of the NET. This year there are only 4(as of now) and three of those teams we only play once.

I'm glad we're improved, but if we do reach 10 conference wins, while getting just 1 Q1 win, I think that says more about the state of the B1G than it does our overall performance. Let me reiterate, we are improved, and this season has been more fun obviously, but I do think context matters, when looking at overall performance.
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Funny how context matters concerning the strength of the BIG this year, but the context of a first year head coach taking over a program with not a good history and trying to sell his vision through word only doesn't matter when discussing the first two seasons.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Nobody is saying you throw out the first 2 years but you should cut a coach some slack for their first few years at a new place, especially when that coach is a first time head coach who is learning on the job and navigating a crazy landscape in terms of player movement/payment, unlike anything we have really ever seen in college sports.

But hey....to each their own. Some want to focus on the positive and look to the future, others want to dwell on the past and refuse to move past it.

Pitino wasn't fired for his last two teams, he was fired for his entire body of work over 8 seasons.
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Cut Ben some slack? Ben is getting paid millions of dollars to be better than the coach he replaced. Ben is two years older and has significantly more assistant coach experience than Richard, and far more experience recruiting MN than Richard did when he arrived. Ben also coached here for 5 years under Richard. And yet Richard has been far better in his 3 seasons at UNM than Ben has been here, on top of being a better coach while at MN too.

Ben wasn't starting at a new place, it's the place he's most familiar with. And the transfer portal has never made it easier for coaches to win right away, on top of the fact that it's created more parity across college basketball.

There was no excuse to be as bad as the Gophers were the last two years. Before Ben was even hired, the minimum requirement for most fans was to make the NCAA tournament in the first 3 years, something Ben won't accomplish.

For what you and the other Ben apologists can't get though your heads is that being better than historically bad is not an accomplishment. If they fail to reach the postseason again this year, this year is a failure.

College basketball is year to year, it's not 4 years to 4 years anymore. We have no idea what this roster will look like next year and there's no guarantee they will be better.

Despite a better season this year, Ben is still the worst Gopher basketball coach in history by far. That doesn't give you a longer leash, it shortens it. If/when Ben is fired, that matters. The first two seasons just aren't thrown out.
 

Gophers7633 said:
Again, there needs to be context added to this. In Pitino's last year there were 9 teams ranked in the top 50 of the NET. This year there are only 4(as of now) and three of those teams we only play once.

I'm glad we're improved, but if we do reach 10 conference wins, while getting just 1 Q1 win, I think that says more about the state of the B1G than it does our overall performance. Let me reiterate, we are improved, and this season has been more fun obviously, but I do think context matters, when looking at overall performance.
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Some can't grasp the level of the conference this season. It nowhere near a few years ago.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
I don't think even 12-8 gets them unless they beat both Illinois and Purdue on the road. Even still I don't think they could afford to lose their first BTT game.

They could still get to 12-8 in the conference without beating a ranked team the entire season. Their best wins would be Northwestern, Nebraska, Maryland, and maybe Michigan St. That's not getting them in without a run in the BTT.
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Beating ranked teams is probably less of a thing than beating Quad 1 and 2 teams. There is a difference. Beating #6 in December should equate to a Quad 1 win in March as that team may ranked differently. Say they are #25. Did we beat the #6 team or #25 or simply a Quad 1 win?

We currently have
3 Quad 1 losses
4 Quad 2 wins
3 Quad 2 losses.
1 Quad 3 Win
1 Quad 3 loss
and 9-0 against Quad 4.

Saw yesterday that we have about a 2.5% chance to make the tournament.
 


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