Ben Johnson is a Disaster

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short ornery norwegian said:
I realize this is impossible, but -

It would be interesting to know what percentage of people are criticizing Ben Johnson strictly on his coaching performance, vs people who are criticizing Johnson because they see him as a "diversity hire" who didn't deserve the job.

to put it another way -
if you don't like Ben Johnson because you think he's a bad coach, well, that goes with the game.

but, if you don't like Ben Johnson because he's black - or you think the only reason he was hired is because he's black - that is a very different situation.

But, it's impossible to know that.
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How about strictly on team performance?
 

short ornery norwegian said:
I realize this is impossible, but -

It would be interesting to know what percentage of people are criticizing Ben Johnson strictly on his coaching performance, vs people who are criticizing Johnson because they see him as a "diversity hire" who didn't deserve the job.

to put it another way -
if you don't like Ben Johnson because you think he's a bad coach, well, that goes with the game.

but, if you don't like Ben Johnson because he's black - or you think the only reason he was hired is because he's black - that is a very different situation.

But, it's impossible to know that.
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They hired Pitino for his name, and they hired Ben for diversity.

Some day, we need to hire based on something dealing with basketball qualifications.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
I realize this is impossible, but -

It would be interesting to know what percentage of people are criticizing Ben Johnson strictly on his coaching performance, vs people who are criticizing Johnson because they see him as a "diversity hire" who didn't deserve the job.

to put it another way -
if you don't like Ben Johnson because you think he's a bad coach, well, that goes with the game.

but, if you don't like Ben Johnson because he's black - or you think the only reason he was hired is because he's black - that is a very different situation.

But, it's impossible to know that.
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I think it’s very possible to think all of the things I’m about to list and I think they’re all pretty reasonable things.

1) Ben Johnson likely got his basketball job, at least in part, because he had some very non-basketball things going for him.
2) even if he got his job partially for non-basketball reasons, he deserves a fair shake and evaluation on his job performance.
3) just because someone got a job they were under-qualified for doesn’t mean they’re a bad hire or can’t be successful

4) so far Ben Johnson has been objectively bad
5) fan support for this team has dropped in the last 3 years and is possibly the worst it’s been since the invention of television…this isn’t solely Johnson’s fault but this is at least partially the fault of fielding a non competitive team the last two years.
 


Teams are built in cycles. Reusse mentioned Johnson is on a 4 year schedule.

-Johnson got Garcia, a former medalist, really good, from North Carolina.

-Cooper and Battle are who they are. Both played well enough to step into the Big Ten from lesser conferences. Probably the best Johnson could get.

-Dennis Evans. Wow! Johnson got him.

Johnson gets credit there.

So will Gophers get a star from Christie, Carrington and Henley? Those are decent prospects. This may be THE situation that determines if Johnson fails or succeeds.

And then the final move is point guard. Stay tuned.

That is a rebuild.

The team was horrific at the start of the season, played well against a few Big Ten teams, and flopped in between.

I don't see what more Johnson can do.

Time takes time.

Garcia was a great pickup and I doubt the Gophers can repeat that 3 times, no matter who is the coach.

So the only gamble is young prospects.
 


maybe just get all new assistants that have some mojo and let bj recruit and see it the 'potential' blossoms into players who don't look lost and clueless and will jump into the portal to escape
 

Diversity or name aside, both Ben and Richard were put in the same, difficult position: being offered a job they were objectively unqualified for and not being able to say no, because who turns down such an opportunity. Pitino admits as much when he recalls the conversation with his dad after receiving the offer. Rick was like, you can't turn this down. I don't think the U did either guy a favor when they put them in that position.
 

Bad Gopher said:
Diversity or name aside, both Ben and Richard were put in the same, difficult position: being offered a job they were objectively unqualified for and not being able to say no, because who turns down such an opportunity. Pitino admits as much when he recalls the conversation with his dad after receiving the offer. Rick was like, you can't turn this down. I don't think the U did either guy a favor when they put them in that position.
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And in Ben's case, the failure to hire someone who had been a college head coach on the staff made it worse. I thought Dave would fit that bill, but he hasn't.
 

Can Minneaota afford 2 more Garcia's?

No. That is not Coach Johnson's fault.

His future rides on his freshmen working out or not.

Look at Johnson's biography. He has been around as a coach. He was a captain at Minnesota. He won State championships as a player in Minneaota.

His coaching was outstanding on Indiana and Ohio State games.

Players' internal clocks decided not to turn on for Northwestern. These guys playing are not pros. They are not going to be on for every game as freshmen.

Give us 2 more Garcias - one at point guard - and we're winning.

Not CBJ's fault.
 



short ornery norwegian said:
I realize this is impossible, but -

It would be interesting to know what percentage of people are criticizing Ben Johnson strictly on his coaching performance, vs people who are criticizing Johnson because they see him as a "diversity hire" who didn't deserve the job.

to put it another way -
if you don't like Ben Johnson because you think he's a bad coach, well, that goes with the game.

but, if you don't like Ben Johnson because he's black - or you think the only reason he was hired is because he's black - that is a very different situation.

But, it's impossible to know that.
Click to expand...
I've never understood all the diversity hire hubub, he was hired because of his connections to his almamater. The problem is he was just as unqualified or more unqualified as the last guy, whom Johnson asst. coached under, so making a green hire made zero sense.
 
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howeda7 said:
And in Ben's case, the failure to hire someone who had been a college head coach on the staff made it worse. I thought Dave would fit that bill, but he hasn't.
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Ok, so what would’ve happened with that assistant? Do you think Conroy would’ve been better than Thorson? Do you think Ben is unaware they missed out on their point guard recruits? Do you feel Ben is mishandling administrative things? Do you believe hiring a former HC whom had most likely been fired for not being a good HC would’ve helped fix all of our woes?
 

At a 10,000 foot level hiring Johnson made some sense. Ne he is not Tubby Smith or Clem Haskins.

-His previous work recruiting in Minnesota as assistant coach recruiter was an asset and still is an asset.

-Minnesota basketball is not a big spending school for talent.

So let Coach Johnson do his thing.l to try and build something over time.

He DID coach well in the Indiana and Ohio State games. I would say Michigan too.

And Johnson has ties to Minnesota as a player for Minnesota and growing up in Minnesota.

He may be one of the only coaches loyal enough to take on this horrible job.

Tubby Smith called it the 2nd or 1st worst job in the Big Ten.

Ben Johnson has Dennis Evans coming in. Slam dunk. Johnson IS a great coach.

Ben Johnson has Dennis Evans coming in. Slam dunk. Johnson IS a great coach
 
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Bfan said:
At a 10,000 foot level hiring Johnson made some sense. Ne he is not Tubby Smith or Clem Haskins.

-His previous work recruiting in Minnesota as assistant coach recruiter was an asset and still is an asset.

-Minnesota basketball is not a big spending school for talent.

So let Coach Johnson do his thing.l to try and build something over time.

He DID coach well in the Indiana and Ohio State games. I would say Michigan too.

And Johnson has ties to Minnesota as a player for Minnesota and growing up in Minnesota.

He may be one of the only coaches loyal enough to take on this horrible job.

Tubby Smith called it the 2nd or 1st worst job in the Big Ten.

Ben Johnson has Dennis Evans coming in. Slam dunk. Johnson IS a great coach.

Ben Johnson has Dennis Evans coming in. Slam dunk. Johnson IS a great coach
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Your formating smells, his hire made zero sense and the women's team is just a couple years further along their unqualified journey. Tubby Smith was a cranky coach past his prime, his opinion bears no weight, hiring someone as qualified as Fleck made sense here...not someone who couldn't pass the final interview for mid-majors.
 
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goldengophers said:
Your formating smells, his hire made zero sense and the women's team is just a couple years further along their unqualified journey. Tubby Smith was a cranky coach past his prime, his opinion bears no weight, hiring someone as qualified as Fleck made sense here...not someone who couldn't pass the final interview for mid-majors.
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goldengophers said:
Your formating smells, his hire made zero sense and the women's team is just a couple years further along their unqualified journey. Tubby Smith was a cranky coach past his prime, his opinion bears no weight, hiring someone as qualified as Fleck made sense here...not someone who couldn't pass the final interview for mid-majors.
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Maybe.

I will just lay my cards down now:

Dennis Evans.

And hope the freshmen pan out.
goldengophers said:
Your formating smells, his hire made zero sense and the women's team is just a couple years further along their unqualified journey. Tubby Smith was a cranky coach past his prime, his opinion bears no weight, hiring someone as qualified as Fleck made sense here...not someone who couldn't pass the final interview for mid-majors.
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Fair enough. Goldengophers badmouths HOF'er Tubby Smith and snubs the phenom Dennis Evans. Coach Johnson is a rock star there.

I am amazed you were there in that interview to see Johnson flunk it. You really scored on that debate point. Boom.

Dennis Evans, thank you Coach Johnson.

Dennis Evans!!!!
 

Gopherfan84 said:
Ok, so what would’ve happened with that assistant? Do you think Conroy would’ve been better than Thorson? Do you think Ben is unaware they missed out on their point guard recruits? Do you feel Ben is mishandling administrative things? Do you believe hiring a former HC whom had most likely been fired for not being a good HC would’ve helped fix all of our woes?
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Very, very touchy whenever there is the least bit of cbj criticism.

Wow.
 





kg21 said:
tubby called it basically the worst job in the big 10, because he sucked here.

Why is this job so horrible? You are in a mega-market and all you need is 5 guys on the floor.

someone explain why this job is so terrible?
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We didn’t hire Mark Few. This was the eff up.
 

Bfan said:
Maybe.

I will just lay my cards down now:

Dennis Evans.

And hope the freshmen pan out.



Fair enough. Goldengophers badmouths HOF'er Tubby Smith and snubs the phenom Dennis Evans. Coach Johnson is a rock star there.

I am amazed you were there in that interview to see Johnson flunk it. You really scored on that debate point. Boom.

Dennis Evans, thank you Coach Johnson.

Dennis Evans!!!!
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Did he get the Montana or NIU job? BAHOOOOOOM
 

Gopherfan84 said:
Ok, so what would’ve happened with that assistant? Do you think Conroy would’ve been better than Thorson? Do you think Ben is unaware they missed out on their point guard recruits? Do you feel Ben is mishandling administrative things? Do you believe hiring a former HC whom had most likely been fired for not being a good HC would’ve helped fix all of our woes?
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Conroy? Maybe. But look at what Martelli has meant to Michigan and Howard. If you're hiring a coach with no experience having someone like that on staff is huge. It didn't have to be either/or with Dave and Conroy.

This team has terrible fundamentals. They can't make FT's. They are poor on defense most of the time. They go through long scoring droughts every game. It seems like a coach on staff with prior HC experience would have helped in these areas. It certainly couldn't be any worse.
 
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kg21 said:
tubby called it basically the worst job in the big 10, because he sucked here.

Why is this job so horrible? You are in a mega-market and all you need is 5 guys on the floor.

someone explain why this job is so terrible?
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So many challenges. Very difficult.

Must take years. Must build.

Fans need to be patient.
 

goldengophers said:
Your formating smells, his hire made zero sense and the women's team is just a couple years further along their unqualified journey. Tubby Smith was a cranky coach past his prime, his opinion bears no weight, hiring someone as qualified as Fleck made sense here...not someone who couldn't pass the final interview for mid-majors.
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Ben's hiring might have made sense if Pitino had a massive buyout and they had to get someone who would take the job for $1 million. But Pitino did them a solid taking the NM job, there was no buyout as far as I know (and his buyout wasn't that huge anyway). So they're paying Ben the going rate and could have had Craig Smith for the same amount.
 

Bfan said:
Maybe.

I will just lay my cards down now:

Dennis Evans.

Dennis Evans, thank you Coach Johnson.

Dennis Evans!!!!
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Please stop hiding in Dennis' bushes with a tape measure...
 

I-am-Shocked-Shocked.jpg

Let's be honest. Money talks with other schools.

I once knew a guy, played offensive line, who said he was paid a little money, not a lot.

The reality is that Minnesota has to come up the hard way competing with more powerful basketball programs.

Minnesota Basketball is not a powerhouse basketball prograM.

Stop with these vague and flippant conclusions.

Judge Johnson on who he has managed to bringi in. Let's get specific here. Payne, JOJ, Christie...

And the Indiana game. That was dynamite coaching on video.

Let's see Johnson's ream finally assembled and then judge him.

Like the Indiana game.

Ok, early this season was an embarrassment. I am not in denial.

But Indiana, Ohio State, Michigan... that's legit coaching.

And we don't know why they did 't show up against Northwestern besides Garcia being out. Is that coaching or youth? O don't know.

Ok, I am done. Hey Coach Johnson gets to coach to next season is all I am saying.

I empathize with season ticket holders giving up and keeping the money.
 

howeda7 said:
Conroy? Maybe. But look at what Martelli has meant to Michigan and Howard. If you're hiring a coach with no experience having someone like that on staff is huge. It didn't have to be either/or with Dave and Conroy.
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Then who was my point? Pretty much all good HCs are coaching. Martelli to Michigan was huge for Howard. I just don’t know who Ben could get. Of course I’d loved someone like that, but just don’t know who’s even around.
howeda7 said:
This team has terrible fundamentals. They can't make FT's. They are poor on defense most of the time. They go through long scoring droughts every game. It seems like a coach on staff with prior HC experience would have helped in these areas. It certainly couldn't be any worse.
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I thinking coaching matters on defense. For there I’ve seen improvement. I’m not ready to crush them on player development cause we haven’t had much to grade on. I don’t think an assistant is gonna fix the free throws as it’s more mental. I appreciate you giving some real rational reasons though. We just disagree, but as far as W-L records we agree on it can’t get much worse.
 

Reusse said in the Star Tribune that the Johnson is not getting much financial support -- that whatever he achieves is mostly by his miracle working. Reusse said that
 

Bfan said:
View attachment 23524

Let's be honest. Money talks with other schools.

I once knew a guy, played offensive line, who said he was paid a little money, not a lot.

The reality is that Minnesota has to come up the hard way competing with more powerful basketball programs.

Minnesota Basketball is not a powerhouse basketball prograM.

Stop with these vague and flippant conclusions.

Judge Johnson on who he has managed to bringi in. Let's get specific here. Payne, JOJ, Christie...

And the Indiana game. That was dynamite coaching on video.

Let's see Johnson's ream finally assembled and then judge him.

Like the Indiana game.

Ok, early this season was an embarrassment. I am not in denial.

But Indiana, Ohio State, Michigan... that's legit coaching.

And we don't know why they did 't show up against Northwestern besides Garcia being out. Is that coaching or youth? O don't know.

Ok, I am done. Hey Coach Johnson gets to coach to next season is all I am saying.

I empathize with season ticket holders giving up and keeping the money.
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We don’t count moral victories as wins, apparently you do, which says a lot.

I could care less about recruits and future recruits. Growing up as a basketball fan in MN, I’m sick and tired of thinking about the future. Maybe Evans is the next Ndudi Ebi. MN basketball (Gophers and Wolves) are also pitching the future, let’s just judge coaches are wins and losses.

And I think your stance on moral victories is sad.
 

golfing18now said:
Our family finally gave up our season tickets this year after 52 years. A combination of logistics and desire led to the decision. I certainly miss going to 15ish games a year but it was starting to feel more and more like a chore to go to the games and the gameday experience is just not what it once was like.
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Add the absolutely sucky start times as well. Two of our group of four are already talking of dropping out next season.
 

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