Ben Johnson fighting against the ‘woe’ in Minnesota’s sports mindset

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MRJ said:
Of course, but I'm not willing to get on fans for being pessimistic about Minnesota sports or Gopher hoops. And if we consider a more macro view, we've heard the same spiel from the Twins a few years ago when they made the playoffs with new management and new players. As you may recall, they all claimed "we're not the teams that failed in the past." And guess what happened? They failed just as miserably as all the teams before them.

Obviously, the team itself can't take a woe is me mindset. Or at the very least, they shouldn't. But that's as far as it can be expected to go currently.

Ben definitely deserves time and he definitely will get it. But addressing Minnesota's "woe is me" attitude isn't going to change just because a second-year coach wants everyone to have a positive approach. There's too much utter failure over the decades for that mindset to simply disappear because he wants it to happen.
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If the team makes you miserable...why watch? There is thousands of things to do that are more enjoyable why not do them? Methinks some people enjoy being miserable.

(obviously I am speaking in the macro not about you specifically)

No one is saying you have to ignore the injuries or not be worried that we might have depth issues...but we also didn't think many of the players who played well last year would be that good. Half the fun is seeing who surprises you.

Plus, it isn't like we lost All Big Ten caliber players. Some people are on suicide watch because we lost a player who has never played for us (and was coming off a knee injury that cost him last season) and another who is all potential but has never really done much. Not exactly Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant ;)
 

ecoperson said:
I was talking about fans in general. Sadly, you've had a long history of negative 'shots' about this, that, and the other so you get lumped in with the BBs, and OOs of the world. I noticed your shift primarily around the time that Johnson was hired. You seem to now go out of your way to post cynical one-liners without adding the more nuanced value that I thought you did before.
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I think once again you are conflating me with the negative demons you are fighting. I call it as I see it, and some may consider that cynical I suppose. It's the offseason, there isn't much to comment on at the moment that requires a lot of nuance. You seem to try to bully people into being the fan you want them to be. Just my opinion man.
 

GopherBlood666 said:
I think once again you are conflating me with the negative demons you are fighting. I call it as I see it, and some may consider that cynical I suppose. It's the offseason, there isn't much to comment on at the moment that requires a lot of nuance. You seem to try to bully people into being the fan you want them to be. Just my opinion man.
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I certainly am not trying to bully people but I am just calling it as I see it as well. The MN sports fans have just worn me down over the years!

I have had too many exhausting conversations with BannedBurner about how one can see progress and improvement even if the wins weren't there in year 1. Let's just hope that we get some positive results this year that everyone can get behind. Go Gophers!
 

leib0039 said:
I agree it doesn't hurt to have full stands and be engaged, but its not nearly as important as you make it. I will give you Nebraska football as a prime example. They sell out EVERYTHING football related, they are by all accounts a hugely interactive and positive group. Hasn't helped them get anyone of note or sway kids.

I would hazard a guess that 95% of recruiting trips end with the kid going "wow they LOVE me at school x!" I doubt any go well last year they had 5,000 fans a game and this school got 8000 well i know where im going!
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Up until very recently, they were consistently top 25 in recruiting even with average or below average results on the field.
 

ecoperson said:
I certainly am not trying to bully people but I am just calling it as I see it as well. The MN sports fans have just worn me down over the years!

I have had too many exhausting conversations with BannedBurner about how one can see progress and improvement even if the wins weren't there in year 1. Let's just hope that we get some positive results this year that everyone can get behind. Go Gophers!
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Yet, you are here. Clearly you need to be worn down even farther so that you leave. 🤔😅
 


GophersInIowa said:
Up until very recently, they were consistently top 25 in recruiting even with average or below average results on the field.
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They have been top 25 in:
2022
2021
2020
2019
2018
2017

I believe they were 26 in 2016.

So...yeah...talking out of their ass.
 

Unregistered User said:
They have been top 25 in:
2022
2021
2020
2019
2018
2017

I believe they were 26 in 2016.

So...yeah...talking out of their ass.
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This year's class (2022) was ranked 41st. Partly due to them having only 18 commits but still not as good as they usually are.

247sports.com

2022 Recruit Football Team Rankings

In order to create the most comprehensive Team Recruiting Ranking without any notion of bias, 247Sports Team Recruiting Ranking is solely based on the 247Sports Composite Rating.
247sports.com 247sports.com
 

MRJ said:
Ben definitely deserves time and he definitely will get it. But addressing Minnesota's "woe is me" attitude isn't going to change just because a second-year coach wants everyone to have a positive approach. There's too much utter failure over the decades for that mindset to simply disappear because he wants it to happen.
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Thank you. I believe in fresh starts. As I wrote to someone earlier this morning, Johnson should not be unnecessarily saddled with the failure of Pitino to win big here. Let's give the team and the coach a chance to show what they've got this year. A sample size of 2 years is a lot better than using only the inaugural year to judge a regime!
 






Spaulding!No! said:
I believe in 2nd chances! Ben promised last year that the team wouldn’t finish last. He was wrong. This will be Ben’s 2nd chance!
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Look who's back!! Just a reminder that Ben's promise was couched in all of the proper IFs so he technically wasn't wrong. I do believe that we'll see more success in year 2.
 

I think people are conflating two separate issues.

The "woe is me" attitude is the notion that MN teams are 'cursed' or will never succeed because of bad luck or some other outside force. Personally, I think that is BS. Bad teams are bad because they're bad - because the GM and coaches made bad decisions. Or in the case of the Super Bowl Vikings teams, you had good teams that ran into better teams.

as far as Gopher Basketball is concerned, my feeling is that people have selective memories. They remember a handful of really good teams, and use that as their standard for what 'Gopher Basketball' should be. If you look at the reality, Gopher Basketball for much of its history has been a middle-of-the-conference program, or lower. It's not like Pitino and Ben Johnson inherited a Final 4 team and ran it into the cellar. the Final 4 team was 25 years ago. look, it's all well and good for fans to say "I demand more," but again, it takes the right combination of coach and players to make it happen. just look at this year's Gopher FB team. if they can do it, the men's basketball team can do it - IF they have the right coach and can get the right players.
 



ecoperson said:
I certainly am not trying to bully people but I am just calling it as I see it as well. The MN sports fans have just worn me down over the years!

I have had too many exhausting conversations with BannedBurner about how one can see progress and improvement even if the wins weren't there in year 1. Let's just hope that we get some positive results this year that everyone can get behind. Go Gophers!
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You are clearly one of those folks who believes that sheer endurance is what wins an argument. Some refer to that as the "last word" strategy.
 

Dave H said:
No "woe is me" is just a bunch of people with inferiority complexes who have lost the ability to have fun watching a game. Minnesota fans whine and ignore the fact that there are plenty of teams in each sport that have it worse than we do but somehow we have deluded ourselves into believing we are cursed, we are terrible, our teams are a joke and we are wasting our time watching them. We never allow ourselves the ability to step back and just enjoy it and let the chips fall where they may*. (unless it is the Twins)

As for the article Ben is saying the same thing PJ said...and PJ was right. You have to start thinking better things will come, that bad news is not just the other shoe dropping. You have to learn to expect success.

*I am obviously talking about the more vocal negative nancies...
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Yes, cause fans positive thinking really has an impact on the outcome of games.
 

GoldenUMNGopher said:
Yes, cause fans positive thinking really has an impact on the outcome of games.
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That isn't what I said...but sure go on with your bad self. I bet if you go back and re-read the conversation you can figure out what I am saying...

(hint, I never said word one about how we affect the team in the sentence you highlighted)

I am speaking of the fan experience only...and so is Ben Johnson. If you just always assume the team will fail you are never going to enjoy watching the team. Minnesota fans are notorious for this. We move the goalposts so we always have something to whine about. Nothing will ever be good enough.
 

Dave H said:
That isn't what I said...but sure go on with your bad self. I bet if you go back and re-read the conversation you can figure out what I am saying...

(hint, I never said word one about how we affect the team in the sentence you highlighted)

I am speaking of the fan experience only...and so is Ben Johnson. If you just always assume the team will fail you are never going to enjoy watching the team. Minnesota fans are notorious for this. We move the goalposts so we always have something to whine about. Nothing will ever be good enough.
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I love how so many fans are getting defensive and proving the point lol
 

Dave H said:
That isn't what I said...but sure go on with your bad self. I bet if you go back and re-read the conversation you can figure out what I am saying...

(hint, I never said word one about how we affect the team in the sentence you highlighted)

I am speaking of the fan experience only...and so is Ben Johnson. If you just always assume the team will fail you are never going to enjoy watching the team. Minnesota fans are notorious for this. We move the goalposts so we always have something to whine about. Nothing will ever be good enough.
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Maybe this is true, but I think the overwhelming vast majority of Gopher fans think PJ is a really good coach and we haven't ever won the Big 10 West and we've never beaten Iowa since he's been here. Now, I'm in that camp that PJ has clearly worked wonders at the U, but I don't know if goalpost movers really would.

I will say this though, I think the casual Gopher fan (who isn't really a Gopher fan) will move the goal posts. Vikes made it to the Super Bowl? Who cares they didn't win. Gophers win the Big 10 West, yeah but how'd they do against Ohio State. I agree with you that those people exist in spades in MN, but I don't really think they are part of Gopher fandom.
 



MennoSota said:
Chatman will rue the day he spurned Minnesota to play at osu.
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I don't know if I'd really want to be playing in the Bronny side show, I guess he'll probably have a ton of coverage for his games but these types of things never seem to go well.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I don't know if I'd really want to be playing in the Bronny side show, I guess he'll probably have a ton of coverage for his games but these types of things never seem to go well.
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Is he a lock to go there? Definitely makes sense, but he's not considering any Cali schools?
 


OK, I'll put it out there......I think MN surprises some folks this year and.....sneaks into the NCAAs. This leads to even better recruiting and starts to eliminate the "woe is me" attitude that is common and we start to see a turnaround like the FB programs. How about that perspective from an old MN sports fan?
 



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