Baylor lawsuit alleges 52 rapes by football players in 4 years

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GopherinPhilly said:
Not really factually accurate. The schools weren't brought into this because law enforcement wasn't doing it's job. They were forced to get into this because the schools were rigging the system against the women. Schools manipulated stats by telling students to report cases to campus police and not real police and then underreported it, the schools swept cases under the rug to protect their reputations and the schools were violating the rights of their students. The punishment was to require the schools to create a system to handle these claims and bring it all into the light. The schools were the problem, not law enforcement.

The reason sex crimes are hard to prosecute is because there is rarely a witness and rarely more than a he said, she said situation. Juries can't convict on he said, she said, they need more so they often acquit. That isn't law enforcement, that is our constitution. And I like our constitution.
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Great points. Colleges and Universities have done a poor job too, but I would argue that they are getting better in dealing with it and can be much better equipped to deal with it than law enforcement and the court system. See this article:

http://time.com/2905637/campus-rape-assault-prosecution/

There is a reason women do not report to law enforcement, and do not want to be subject to what they face in the court room. As people are arguing about the university process, people can argue about the criminal process of handling this as well.

It goes back to the idea that institutions such as universities can set their own standards and then those standards can be subject to lawsuits and reviews by courts in the system many people on this board feel is the only system that should deal with this issue, that being a court of law.

The fact of the matter remains that when women do report to law enforcement it's a terrible process for the victim and that's why a vast majority of cases are never reported and why a vast majority that are, are never prosecuted, and even more never result in a conviction.

If you think the majority of those vast majorities are "making it up" or "being vindictive" that's just ignorance. For the vast majority of victims it is not worth what they have to go through to just do it out of vindictiveness or regret. The overwhelming majority of literature and research supports that.

The system has long favored the accused in these cases and now it seems to be swinging the other way. Save the potty for the players until this whole thing is over. They made numerous stupid choices that evening regardless of being able to be convicted of sexual assault in a court of law. Save the I'm against group sex argument. I could care less what kind of sex people have. Save the they're all black argument as well, I could careless if they were all white. The EOAA has equal opportunity and affirmative action in its name. If you are concerned about racism, an Equal Opportunity and Affirmative Action office on a college campus in a northern state is most likely one of the least racist aspects of our society.


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BroncoRedux said:
Fifty two daughters and sisters raped by Baylor men. Football men. This doesn't happen at Alabama. Michigan. Ohio State (although they may have tats of questionable character) or even Southern Cal. Message is the poor schools attract the poorer character athletes.
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You're extremely naive if you think similar crap doesn't happen EVERYWHERE.


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Relying on law enforcement and the judicial process as the only way to protect women, is laughable. We are fortunate women who are abused have other options to help change the culture of abuse at these universities around the football program and the universities in general.
 

Some Day...Maybe said:
Great points. Colleges and Universities have done a poor job too, but I would argue that they are getting better in dealing with it and can be much better equipped to deal with it than law enforcement and the court system. See this article:

http://time.com/2905637/campus-rape-assault-prosecution/

There is a reason women do not report to law enforcement, and do not want to be subject to what they face in the court room. As people are arguing about the university process, people can argue about the criminal process of handling this as well.

It goes back to the idea that institutions such as universities can set their own standards and then those standards can be subject to lawsuits and reviews by courts in the system many people on this board feel is the only system that should deal with this issue, that being a court of law.

The fact of the matter remains that when women do report to law enforcement it's a terrible process for the victim and that's why a vast majority of cases are never reported and why a vast majority that are, are never prosecuted, and even more never result in a conviction.

If you think the majority of those vast majorities are "making it up" or "being vindictive" that's just ignorance. For the vast majority of victims it is not worth what they have to go through to just do it out of vindictiveness or regret. The overwhelming majority of literature and research supports that.

The system has long favored the accused in these cases and now it seems to be swinging the other way. Save the potty for the players until this whole thing is over. They made numerous stupid choices that evening regardless of being able to be convicted of sexual assault in a court of law. Save the I'm against group sex argument. I could care less what kind of sex people have. Save the they're all black argument as well, I could careless if they were all white. The EOAA has equal opportunity and affirmative action in its name. If you are concerned about racism, an Equal Opportunity and Affirmative Action office on a college campus in a northern state is most likely one of the least racist aspects of our society.


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I believe the argument that the system is rigged to allow certain members of the campus community to get away with improprieties is valid. But the rigged system is not just related to alleged sexual assault. This gets into possible leiniency with other crimes, taking required classes, receiving legitimate passing grades that allow students to stay in school, etc. If one were to say that we are creating an oversight board to ensure a system that treats all students fairly regarding academic and legal issues, I could get behind that. As it would help root out rotten systems like those at Baylor and North Carolina that have created a "system within a system" to provide preferential treatment for athletes. Which then encourages the type of behavior we see with the Baylor incidents. However, this would make high level administrators and, potentially, law enforcement vulnerable. Instead, we get a sham committee, that tramples individuals rights to focus on one very narrow symptom of a larger issue. A pathetic and misguided response to the bigger problem.
 

For those who didn't click on either the Dallas News article or this Yahoo one, a couple of tidbits:
https://sports.yahoo.com/news/new-l...2011-and-2014-225006913.html?.tsrc=daily_mail

Central to their recruiting efforts, Baylor football coaching staff implemented a “Show em a good time” policy which permitted members of the Baylor football team to engage in unrestricted behavior with no consequences including but not limited to:
a. Players arranging for women, alcohol and illegal drugs for parties when recruits were in town;
b. Paying for and escorting underage recruits to bars and strip clubs; and
c. Paying for off-campus football parties (which repeatedly resulted in gang rape of women by the athletes).

and:

Not only were Baylor’s football coaching staff instrumental in actively implementing these recruiting policies and practices, they also encouraged them. Assistant Coach Kendall Briles, while recruiting one Dallas area high school athlete stated, “Do you like white women? Because we have a lot of them at Baylor and they love football players.”
 



Some Day...Maybe said:
Great points. Colleges and Universities have done a poor job too, but I would argue that they are getting better in dealing with it and can be much better equipped to deal with it than law enforcement and the court system. See this article:

http://time.com/2905637/campus-rape-assault-prosecution/

There is a reason women do not report to law enforcement, and do not want to be subject to what they face in the court room. As people are arguing about the university process, people can argue about the criminal process of handling this as well.

Not a valid excuse. If your child is assaulted or sexually assaulted you're not going to go to the police? This point of view seems very odd.

It goes back to the idea that institutions such as universities can set their own standards and then those standards can be subject to lawsuits and reviews by courts in the system many people on this board feel is the only system that should deal with this issue, that being a court of law.

Criminal activity and accusations should be handled by the court of law.

The fact of the matter remains that when women do report to law enforcement it's a terrible process for the victim and that's why a vast majority of cases are never reported and why a vast majority that are, are never prosecuted, and even more never result in a conviction.

In our society deciding guilt has evidentiary standards. As with other potential crimes better to never put oneself in position to be assaulted. Filing an EOAA claim will not fix what happened to the woman.

If you think the majority of those vast majorities are "making it up" or "being vindictive" that's just ignorance. For the vast majority of victims it is not worth what they have to go through to just do it out of vindictiveness or regret. The overwhelming majority of literature and research supports that.

A significant number of allegations are false. Not the majority but that's beside the point. An odd argument. You think it's ok to assign enormous financial penalties on someone without proof? That's sadistic.

The system has long favored the accused in these cases and now it seems to be swinging the other way. Save the potty for the players until this whole thing is over. They made numerous stupid choices that evening regardless of being able to be convicted of sexual assault in a court of law. Save the I'm against group sex argument. I could care less what kind of sex people have. Save the they're all black argument as well, I could careless if they were all white. The EOAA has equal opportunity and affirmative action in its name. If you are concerned about racism, an Equal Opportunity and Affirmative Action office on a college campus in a northern state is most likely one of the least racist aspects of our society.

So, in a nutshell the ends justify the means because agenda. Got it.


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Some Day...Maybe said:
This ^. The whole reason these EOAA's and title 9 cases have come about is because of the job law enforcement and the court system have done in handling this issue on college campuses.

Colleges and Universities have taken these matters into their own hands because they have decided to have standards of conduct that are higher than a guilty verdict for sexual assault or rape in a court of law. The pendulum is now swinging the other way. Awareness of all of this can only help. This process coming to light and being scrutinized should help as well when it comes to figuring out the best solution for this problem. It's obvious that enough women have had enough and that's why the situation is at where it's at.


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Wrong. Just wrong. You aren't for freedom and liberty. You are for rogue justice, rights and freedom be damned.
 

A little off topic here, but I see that we lost Bryson Jackson to Baylor.
 



More evidence the pushback vs the ideologues is growing. From CNN today:


Are campus rape statistics accurate?

(CNN)The co-author of a new book about campus rape says that while the problem of sexual assault and rape on campus is real, the numbers have been inflated.

23% of women report sexual assault in college, study finds

Stuart Taylor Jr., who wrote "The Campus Rape Frenzy: The Attack on Due Process at America's Universities" with KC Johnson, told CNN's Michael Smerconish that although there is a "serious rape problem on campus," the statistics are "highly misleading."

According to a large scale study by the Association of American Universities, 23% of female students have experienced some form of unwanted sexual contact while attending college.
Taylor disputes these often-cited numbers. For instance, President Obama said, while launching an awareness campaign in 2014, that one in five students will be sexually assaulted. Taylor said the figure was "absolutely false."

"Frankly I'm surprised that a man as smart as former President Obama, and as careful a politician, would say something so wildly inaccurate, something that had already been totally discredited at the time he said it," Taylor said.

Asked by Smerconish what he thought the real number was, Taylor suggested a much lower figure, which he had calculated in his book "according to the best Justice Department statistics."

Sexual assault: Changing the conversation before college
"Maybe one in 100 women are raped during their college careers. Maybe one in 50, including the rapes, are sexual assaulted, maybe fewer. And those statistics come from the best surveys that have been done," he said.

"Surveys that get you to one in five or one in four are highly misleading, if not fraudulent," he added.

The overinflation of statistics has led to misleading press coverage of cases that later were disproved, he argued, specifically calling out the New York Times for "shameful" coverage of members of the Duke lacrosse team, who were accused and later exonerated of sexual assault.

"The people who are hyping this as a huge epidemic are ideologues. Facts don't matter to them," he said.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/28/health/campus-rape-book-author-cnntv/#
 


As with all things, there needs to be balance.

I have no doubt that some police investigations show favoritism to football players - especially in a school where football is king. (not the case in MN......)

I also have no doubt that some of the people on these EOAA boards show favoritism to women who claim they were assaulted.

The real question is how do you come up with a system that both A. respects the rights of the alleged victims and B. respects the rights of the alleged perpetrators.

From what I've read, I suspect the pendulum has swung too far in one direction. Every night of the week, two drunk kids are making out ( or more) on a college campus. There needs to be a way to help resolve these situations without branding someone as a sexual predator - especially when alcohol is involved and issues of consent are cloudy. If an actual rape has occurred, yes, it must be investigated and the perpetrator should be prosecuted. But so many of these cases exist in that gray area. It's just not cut-and-dried.
 

Gopher04 said:
If you haven't already, I highly recommend reading the Baylor message boards. These guys think there is a conspiracy to destroy Baylor football.
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Sounds like Gopher hole
 



Torres9 said:
Sounds like Gopher hole
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No kidding.

I read gopherhole, and the views are very pro-player in these cases.
If you read any comments from any other news story / facebook posts, it's about 9 to 1 that the players were horrible and in the wrong.

The viewpoints of the commenters do not match, and I'd assume a newspaper or facebook thread would be more representative overall than a pro-Gopher athletics website.
 

37score said:
No kidding.

I read gopherhole, and the views are very pro-player in these cases.
If you read any comments from any other news story / facebook posts, it's about 9 to 1 that the players were horrible and in the wrong.

The viewpoints of the commenters do not match, and I'd assume a newspaper or facebook thread would be more representative overall than a pro-Gopher athletics website.
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I'm somewhere in the middle. These Title IX committees are a make weight for a legitimate issue schools across the country have been dealing with. However, they probably go a bit too far in lose evidentiary standards. Ita not just the U with these issues - universities across the country are trying to find the right balance. (I also think our admin handled the public statements really poorly). Still at least we aren't Baylor

Baylor on the other hand completely ignored their legal responsibility. They're in a pile right now and I'm thankful we are not them.
 

37score said:
No kidding.

I read gopherhole, and the views are very pro-player in these cases.
If you read any comments from any other news story / facebook posts, it's about 9 to 1 that the players were horrible and in the wrong.

The viewpoints of the commenters do not match, and I'd assume a newspaper or facebook thread would be more representative overall than a pro-Gopher athletics website.
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It's not a well understood problem. Since when do we want mob rule predicated on alternative facts setting public policy? Legal scholars, lawyers tend to be 9-1 against these proceedings because they understand how deeply and fundamentally unfair they are. The accused have virtually no chance particularly with the recent implementation of affirmative consent. How does one prove that in a drunken encounter.
 

It keeps getting worse (Elliot has been accused of at least 5 rapes while at Baylor)...

http://www.espn.com/college-footbal...tants-buried-player-misbehavior-documents-say


The regents' response also claims Briles personally appealed to Starr on behalf of former Bears defensive lineman Tevin Elliott, when he was charged with a second count of plagiarism, which made him ineligible for the 2011 season. After Elliott missed an April 2011 appeal deadline, according to the response, Briles "personally took up Elliott's cause more than two months later" in June.

"The coach notified President Starr in an email that Elliott wanted to appeal the suspension," the response says. "The unusual request by Coach Briles triggered concern among top Baylor administrators, who complained to President Starr and among themselves that overturning Elliott's suspension after the appeal deadline would send a message that athletes were above the rules."

The response says Elliott's appeal letter was suspect and "appeared to have been authored by an academic advisor in the Athletics Department. Nevertheless, President Starr ignored the decision of his Provost and overturned the suspension."

In another break with university policy, according to the response, Starr put Elliott under the probationary watch of the athletic department and not judicial affairs, which was responsible for overseeing enforcement of the school's honor code. Because of Starr's decision, the athletic department became the sole arbiter of whether Elliott was complying with the terms of his probation and what consequences he should suffer if he failed to adhere to them, according to the response.

In the fall of 2011, according to the response, Elliott had "attendance problems, was in danger of flunking his human performance class and was caught cheating on quizzes." On Oct. 21, 2011, an athletic department employee wrote to McCaw: "Wow, what is this kid thinking?" McCaw replied: "Unbelievable!"

On April 1, 2012, a woman told Waco police that Elliott raped her at her apartment three days earlier. Two weeks later, on April 15, Jasmin Hernandez told police that Elliott raped her behind a pool house near one of his teammates' townhomes. When the coaches learned of the allegation, an assistant coach texted Briles and told him that Elliott "firmly denies even knowing the girl." But, after interviewing Elliott the next day, the assistant told Briles that Elliott "admitted he lied to us. He was with her and said when she said stop he did."

"Wow - not good - I'll call you later," Briles replied.



When the assistant texted Briles later and told him that Elliott had been contacted by Waco police, Briles replied: "Dang it."

On Jan. 24, 2014, Elliott was convicted of raping Hernandez and was sentenced to the maximum 20 years in prison and a $10,000 fine. His trial would reveal accusations by three other women that he raped them and a conviction of misdemeanor physical assault of another.

"The Athletics Department's unwillingness to crack down enabled Elliott to stay at Baylor and play football," the university's response says.
 






Baylor's Women's Basketball Coach seems to like violence as a response to concerns about sexual assault at Baylor...:

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She later apologized for the comment....
 

I haven't been following this all that closely, but it seems to me that Art Briles should start practicing "Would you like fries with that?"
 

50PoundHead said:
I haven't been following this all that closely, but it seems to me that Art Briles should start practicing "Would you like fries with that?"
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Well he backed off his lawsuit and public comments last I saw.

I think he's just waiting it out now.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
Well he backed off his lawsuit and public comments last I saw.

I think he's just waiting it out now.
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Guessing he'll be waiting a long time. Only chance I see is at a struggling mid-major, FCS, or assistant job in NFL.
 


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more on the latest lawsuit:
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/b...rape-video-dog-fighting-155206043--ncaaf.html

The latest lawsuit, which doesn't identify the accused players, alleges Baylor football players had freshmen players bring girls to parties where they would be drugged and gang raped. The attacks were often recorded so video and photos could be shared by players, who bragged about their experiences, according to the lawsuit. ''The gang rapes were considered a 'bonding' experience for the football players,'' the lawsuit states.
 

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