Bateman limps out of Ravens practice

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The way it was described it doesn't look good particularly if the leg gave way on its own and no contact. Wishing Rashod nothing but the best at this time.
 

Not that I know anything about anything but it is interesting how many non contact injuries there are.

To me, those seem like overuse injuries.
kind of a catch 22….

you have to train year round to be good.
Training year round causes over use injuries



encourage your 5th-11th graders to do play multiple different sports to get more athletic without doing the same things over and over. A basketball player playing football for 11 weeks a year might be really good for their body to rest from certain stresses.
 

Some guy said:
Not that I know anything about anything but it is interesting how many non contact injuries there are.

To me, those seem like overuse injuries.
kind of a catch 22….

you have to train year round to be good.
Training year round causes over use injuries



encourage your 5th-11th graders to do play multiple different sports to get more athletic without doing the same things over and over. A basketball player playing football for 11 weeks a year might be really good for their body to rest from certain stresses.
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The combination of field turf and cleats together has made a huge difference. Unlike grass, where sufficient torque will break off a chunk of dirt and roots, sharp twisting movements on turf transmit almost all of that force to the knee ligaments.
 



SixBySix said:
The combination of field turf and cleats together has made a huge difference. Unlike grass, where sufficient torque will break off a chunk of dirt and roots, sharp twisting movements on turf transmit almost all of that force to the knee ligaments.
Click to expand...
Wasn’t Teddy’s horrible non-contact injury at Mankato on grass?

I like your idea as a hypothesis, but wonder what a study would show.
 

MplsGopher said:
Wasn’t Teddy’s horrible non-contact injury at Mankato on grass?

I like your idea as a hypothesis, but wonder what a study would show.
Click to expand...
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30995074/
"A total of 3,009,205 athlete exposures and 2460 knee injuries were reported from 2004 to 2014: 1389 MCL, 522 ACL, 269 lateral meniscal, 164 medial meniscal, and 116 PCL. Athletes experienced all knee injuries at a significantly higher rate when participating in competitions as compared with practices. Athletes participating in competitions on artificial turf experienced PCL injuries at 2.94 times the rate as those playing on grass (RR = 2.94; 95% CI, 1.61-5.68). When stratified by competition level, Division I athletes participating in competitions on artificial turf experienced PCL injuries at 2.99 times the rate as those playing on grass (RR = 2.99; 95% CI, 1.39-6.99), and athletes in lower NCAA divisions (II and III) experienced ACL injuries at 1.63 times the rate (RR = 1.63; 95% CI, 1.10-2.45) and PCL injuries at 3.13 times the rate (RR = 3.13; 95% CI, 1.14-10.69) on artificial turf as compared with grass. There was no statistically significant difference in the rate of MCL, medial meniscal, or lateral meniscal injuries on artificial turf versus grass when stratified by event type or level of NCAA competition. No difference was found in the mechanisms of knee injuries on natural grass and artificial turf." (emphasis added)

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22491794/
"The rate of ACL injury on artificial surfaces is 1.39 (95% CI, 1.11-1.73) times higher than the injury rate on grass surfaces."
 

MplsGopher said:
Wasn’t Teddy’s horrible non-contact injury at Mankato on grass?

I like your idea as a hypothesis, but wonder what a study would show.
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Field turf does really "grab" more, especially with full length cleats. I've even been surprised at how grabby turf can be when wearing turf shoes.
 




MplsGopher said:
Wasn’t Teddy’s horrible non-contact injury at Mankato on grass?

I like your idea as a hypothesis, but wonder what a study would show.
Click to expand...
Bridgewater got hurt at Winter Park. I assume it was outside, but don't recall if that field was grass or turf.
 

SixBySix said:
The combination of field turf and cleats together has made a huge difference. Unlike grass, where sufficient torque will break off a chunk of dirt and roots, sharp twisting movements on turf transmit almost all of that force to the knee ligaments.
Click to expand...
Data please
 

SixBySix said:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30995074/
"A total of 3,009,205 athlete exposures and 2460 knee injuries were reported from 2004 to 2014: 1389 MCL, 522 ACL, 269 lateral meniscal, 164 medial meniscal, and 116 PCL. Athletes experienced all knee injuries at a significantly higher rate when participating in competitions as compared with practices. Athletes participating in competitions on artificial turf experienced PCL injuries at 2.94 times the rate as those playing on grass (RR = 2.94; 95% CI, 1.61-5.68). When stratified by competition level, Division I athletes participating in competitions on artificial turf experienced PCL injuries at 2.99 times the rate as those playing on grass (RR = 2.99; 95% CI, 1.39-6.99), and athletes in lower NCAA divisions (II and III) experienced ACL injuries at 1.63 times the rate (RR = 1.63; 95% CI, 1.10-2.45) and PCL injuries at 3.13 times the rate (RR = 3.13; 95% CI, 1.14-10.69) on artificial turf as compared with grass. There was no statistically significant difference in the rate of MCL, medial meniscal, or lateral meniscal injuries on artificial turf versus grass when stratified by event type or level of NCAA competition. No difference was found in the mechanisms of knee injuries on natural grass and artificial turf." (emphasis added)

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22491794/
"The rate of ACL injury on artificial surfaces is 1.39 (95% CI, 1.11-1.73) times higher than the injury rate on grass surfaces."
Click to expand...
Data is 7 years old. It doesn’t share the controls like the age of the turf. Second generation turf wouldn’t be used with $100 million athletes if this were accurate. Turf continues to improve.
 

"Bateman limps" reminded me of Chuck Norris jokes.

"Chuck Norris died. But he's ok now."

When the Boogeyman goes to sleep, he checks his closet for Rashod Bateman.

When Rashod Bateman does a pushup, he isn't pushing himself up, he's pushing the earth down.
 




State of Football said:
Data is 7 years old. It doesn’t share the controls like the age of the turf. Second generation turf wouldn’t be used with $100 million athletes if this were accurate. Turf continues to improve.
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I've played soccer on brand new turf in the last year. Turf is definitely different and grabs more. I only wear turf shoes on turf because of it. Most people wear cleats though.
 

SixBySix said:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30995074/
"A total of 3,009,205 athlete exposures and 2460 knee injuries were reported from 2004 to 2014: 1389 MCL, 522 ACL, 269 lateral meniscal, 164 medial meniscal, and 116 PCL. Athletes experienced all knee injuries at a significantly higher rate when participating in competitions as compared with practices. Athletes participating in competitions on artificial turf experienced PCL injuries at 2.94 times the rate as those playing on grass (RR = 2.94; 95% CI, 1.61-5.68). When stratified by competition level, Division I athletes participating in competitions on artificial turf experienced PCL injuries at 2.99 times the rate as those playing on grass (RR = 2.99; 95% CI, 1.39-6.99), and athletes in lower NCAA divisions (II and III) experienced ACL injuries at 1.63 times the rate (RR = 1.63; 95% CI, 1.10-2.45) and PCL injuries at 3.13 times the rate (RR = 3.13; 95% CI, 1.14-10.69) on artificial turf as compared with grass. There was no statistically significant difference in the rate of MCL, medial meniscal, or lateral meniscal injuries on artificial turf versus grass when stratified by event type or level of NCAA competition. No difference was found in the mechanisms of knee injuries on natural grass and artificial turf." (emphasis added)

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22491794/
"The rate of ACL injury on artificial surfaces is 1.39 (95% CI, 1.11-1.73) times higher than the injury rate on grass surfaces."
Click to expand...
Compelling data, I agree. I was speaking more to your proposed mechanism, which this study obviously doesn't address. I have no counter-hypothesis though, for some other mechanism.

I don't know how true this is, but I've heard that in terms of evolution, women are more susceptible to ACL injuries because their knees evolved to carry the (forward-backward) weight of pregnancy, while men's knees needed more sideways strength (to fight off predators/kill food?)? Could be a wild guess and/or completely wrong.

So anyway, the data summary above doesn't seem to differentiate between gender. Just summarizes in terms of total athletes.
 

GoGophersUMN said:
Here's a statement from the NFLPA that looks at more recent data and only the NFL:
https://nflpa.com/posts/only-natural-grass-can-level-the-nfls-playing-field
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Also very compelling.

The major problem: it would be an enormous cost and technological challenge (if not impossible??) to retrofit stadiums with grass.

Also, disagree that all NFL climates are suitable for grass. Chicago's grass is always awful and an embarrassment in the latter part of the season.


And so long as teams are playing (other teams) on turf, they're going to want those surfaces to practice on, to get ready for that feel.


This would be the thing to do, if it were affordable and physically possible: you'd have the grass and soil (say 1 foot deep or whatever it would need to be) sitting a giant tray that could roll on/off the stadium surface. Arizona's stadium already has this, but AFAIK it just rolls out to the natural light, which requires that space to be available and a climate suitable for that. Would not be possible in northern climates. So instead it would roll into a "compartment" underground or something like that. In there, you'd have a huge assortment of grow lights, plus spray nozzles to provide water and nutrients, maybe even robot mowers?

Probably a fantasy.
 

Word said:
I've played soccer on brand new turf in the last year. Turf is definitely different and grabs more. I only wear turf shoes on turf because of it. Most people wear cleats though.
Click to expand...
I wear only socks in the house. I have never had a knee injury indoors. The footwear makes the man!
 

Sounds like it was a groin for Bateman according to Twitter and they are worried it could be "significant." Sending positive thoughts for Rashod to heal up well!
 

Word said:
I've played soccer on brand new turf in the last year. Turf is definitely different and grabs more. I only wear turf shoes on turf because of it. Most people wear cleats though.
Click to expand...
And I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night😎
 


STrib notes:

Baltimore Ravens coach John Harbaugh said Thursday that rookie receiver Rashod Bateman was set to have groin surgery and should be back sometime in September.

That announcement came a day after Harbaugh said Bateman was expected to miss "a number of weeks" with a soft tissue problem.

Bateman was drafted in the first round by the Ravens. Baltimore is trying to boost its passing game after finishing last in that department a season ago.

The Ravens play their first preseason game Saturday night against New Orleans.

"I don't know how many [weeks]," Harbaugh said at a press conference. "It's not going to be months, but it will be weeks and we'll see where we're at."
 

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