Barreiro This Morning

[joshvanklomp]

I'm not a big fan of Barreiro, but he has a point.

Saying it's "all on me" gives the impression that he isn't throwing the team under the bus and is taking ownership for the team.

It's almost like when people say "I'm not racist but. . . . (something racist)" OR "I am not trying to be offensive but . . . (something offensive)".

Barreiro is right. Fleck shouldn't be calling this year zero and going on and on about the lack of depth and then saying "it's all on me".

It doesn't really bother me, most coaches do it. Jerry Kill did it.

Question....would it be better to say it doesn't matter who's in or out, we expect every player to play at the level of Tyrone Carter and Marion Barber, or to call out specific players as the reason they lost the game?

Shouldn't players have a realistic level of expectation based on talent level and experience? Would you expect Clay Geary to come in and have the same production as Tyler Johnson?

 

[Dano564]

We can all applaud the coaches at top 15 Universities who go with the "Next man up!" mantra as they painstakingly watch a 3-star senior go down, only to have to play their 4 star redshirt-sophomore.

But if you are playing kids that are really out of their league hoping they'll play as well as a blue-blood like Winfield Jr.... don't you lose a little credibility (especially after you spent 3 straight weeks lauding Winfield) to say "Don't care who you are, next man up!" ?


People can find something to criticize a coach for, and with Barrerio's experience in doing nothing but looking for things to criticize, I expected something with more substance.

 

[gopherveteran]

If Claeys would have short players, he would have added several JC players.

Welcome to the big time PJ.

 

[Word]

If Claeys would have short players, he would have added several JC players.

Welcome to the big time PJ.

You beat me to it. I think Claeys would have seen the holes and filled them with JC players. PJ didn't want to do that and now we are seeing the effects. Claeys plan would have been better in the short term, PJ's could potentially be better in the long term.

 

[Spoofin]

FYI. Tonight at about 5:15 Gaard reported on the Gopher injury situation and Dan made some sort of snide comment about Fleck making excuses and said, "That'll end up on Gopherhole."

<b>Gaard also said he though they were leaning toward shutting Winfield down for the year.</b>

Oh, Super.


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[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

Isn't that the typical radio jockey thing to complain about.... complain about not just the losses but what someone says about them? As if there is something that would make it ok but they just didn't do that?

 

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

Gaard also said he though they were leaning toward shutting Winfield down for the year.

 

[Nort73]

You beat me to it. I think Claeys would have seen the holes and filled them with JC players. PJ didn't want to do that and now we are seeing the effects. Claeys plan would have been better in the short term, PJ's could potentially be better in the long term.

Claeys also saw the players in practice for at a minimum the full year prior to being fired, so he had a better idea of the limitations/lack of depth. Fleck had a month to finalize a class.


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[#2Gopher]

Barreiro probably upset that Fleck didn't give him a book for his library.

 

[John Galt]

You beat me to it. I think Claeys would have seen the holes and filled them with JC players. PJ didn't want to do that and now we are seeing the effects. Claeys plan would have been better in the short term, PJ's could potentially be better in the long term.

PJ brought in a Juco - Royal Silver. He also added 2 SEC transfers.

He has also offered additional Jucos for 2018.

 

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

If Claeys would have short players, he would have added several JC players.

Welcome to the big time PJ.

Maybe it would have helped a bit, but that's at the cost of players you keep longer term and .... it's not like we or TC have crooted world beater type JCs consistently or anything...

 

[Spoofin]

Maybe it would have helped a bit, but that's at the cost of players you keep longer term and .... it's not like we or TC have crooted world beater type JCs consistently or anything...

I can think of a few off hand playing in the NFL


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[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

I can think of a few off hand playing in the NFL


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How likely do you think it would be TC could find enough late last year to fill this team's holes? I'm thinking pretty unlikely.

 

[Spoofin]

How likely do you think it would be TC could find enough late last year to fill this team's holes? I'm thinking pretty unlikely.

Agreed. I was commenting on us not having much success with JuCos, which I disagree with. Prior to Kill, I would agree, but Kill did awesome with Wilson, Campbell, BBC.


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[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

Agreed. I was commenting on us not having much success with JuCos, which I disagree with. Prior to Kill, I would agree, but Kill did awesome with Wilson, Campbell, BBC.


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No doubt they found some. I agree. I just don't think they could fill this year's holes.

I suspect this is somewhat more like 2015 where some of the holes were either too numerous to fill in one class... and some just straight up unknown until folks were injured, and nobody would have filled those spots.

 

[Word]

PJ brought in a Juco - Royal Silver. He also added 2 SEC transfers.

He has also offered additional Jucos for 2018.

I could have seen Claeys bringing in multiple jucos for this year. PJ is/was looking more to the future and not this year. Like I said, it may pay off in the long run but is hurting us this year.

 

[John Galt]

I could have seen Claeys bringing in multiple jucos for this year. PJ is/was looking more to the future and not this year. Like I said, it may pay off in the long run but is hurting us this year.

When Claeys was fired I think we had 1 Juco commit - Neil McLaurin

Fleck added 1 - Silver

How has that hurt us this year? Given that Fleck was hired in January and most Jucos sign in December he didn't even have a chance.

 

[joshvanklomp]

How has that hurt us this year? Given that Fleck was hired in January and most Jucos sign in December he didn't even have a chance.

Because on GopherHole, it's alway's P.J.'s fault.

 

[caliGopher]

When Claeys was fired I think we had 1 Juco commit - Neil McLaurin

Fleck added 1 - Silver

How has that hurt us this year? Given that Fleck was hired in January and most Jucos sign in December he didn't even have a chance.

There was on O-lineman as well, that for whatever reason was "shown the door" before the class was finalized. If it was he couldn't get into the U, that's tough. If it was a move because PJ didn't know what he had, wondering if taking him would have been a better idea than handing out a scholly to a kid that never has, nor ever will see the field.

That was as planned and calculated to "build the culutre" as it gets, and one of the reasons I find Fleck's "culture" more than a little contrived. Having an extra junior O-lineman would be better for both the short term given the injuries right now, and for the long term if we were able to leave the red-shirts on the freshman we've taken them off of so far, but I don't know what the issue was.

 

[caliGopher]

Because on GopherHole, it's alway's P.J.'s fault.

Goes with the $3.5MM paycheck and when you are making the decisions. It's called accountability, but I know that concept is un-American these days.

 

[Spoofin]

When Claeys was fired I think we had 1 Juco commit - Neil McLaurin

Fleck added 1 - Silver

How has that hurt us this year? Given that Fleck was hired in January and most Jucos sign in December he didn't even have a chance.

Didn't we also sign a JuCo OL after signing day? Not saying that hurt us this year, but PJ did add a second.


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[Spoofin]

Because on GopherHole, it's alway's P.J.'s fault.

Is it OK to think PJ deserves some of the blame? You make it sound so outlandish to question PJ.


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[Dano564]

There was on O-lineman as well, that for whatever reason was "shown the door" before the class was finalized. If it was he couldn't get into the U, that's tough. If it was a move because PJ didn't know what he had, wondering if taking him would have been a better idea than handing out a scholly to a kid that never has, nor ever will see the field.

That was as planned and calculated to "build the culutre" as it gets, and one of the reasons I find Fleck's "culture" more than a little contrived. Having an extra junior O-lineman would be better for both the short term given the injuries right now, and for the long term if we were able to leave the red-shirts on the freshman we've taken them off of so far, but I don't know what the issue was.

If all you are worried about is finding a way to win a game, and nothing else about the program on a larger scale, one could agree with you. If you want to emphasize the off the field behaviors you want to see, doing what he did with the kicker scholarship was brilliant.

If you don't value any publicity or media coverage, you might also think it was a waste. But if getting national media attention is a good thing for a program trying to take a step up from a PR standpoint after a bad year of PR, it's at worst a super idea whether contrived or not.

For you to not be a fan of the move, you seem to me to be a little to worried about winning now, and don't seem to value the idea of getting eyeballs on the program by whatever positive means necessary. Although I may be wrong.

 

[caliGopher]

If all you are worried about is finding a way to win a game, and nothing else about the program on a larger scale, one could agree with you. If you want to emphasize the off the field behaviors you want to see, doing what he did with the kicker scholarship was brilliant.

If you don't value any publicity or media coverage, you might also think it was a waste. But if getting national media attention is a good thing for a program trying to take a step up from a PR standpoint after a bad year of PR, it's at worst a super idea whether contrived or not.

For you to not be a fan of the move, you seem to me to be a little to worried about winning now, and don't seem to value the idea of getting eyeballs on the program by whatever positive means necessary. Although I may be wrong.

Yeah. You are wrong.

It is simple to assimilate anything someone else says into the narrative of your choosing. Quite another to pull your head out of your ass and see differing perspectives.

Fleck has a prescribed plan to do what he did. That doesn’t make it good, that makes it a PR stunt.

Is positive PR a good thing? Sure. Is whining about depth a good thing? Sure, if you think that will get you better recruits.

Would have protecting redshirts provided more opportunity for success in the long run? Yes. Would that have been good for the program? Yes. Would it have sent the message that he’s going to do things “the right way?” Yes.

Are there better ways to drive home “My way or the highway” than rewarding kids who work hard but have no talent with a scholarship? Yes.

And you still could have done all of those silly PR stunts and whining to achieve your other goals as time went by to the same affect while still helping the team in the short run.

This isn’t a zero sum game, and frankly I’m surprised at how prescribed Fleck’s approach is. Almost as if he has a script.

PJ’s the coach and he’s going to do things his way. That makes it his way, not necessarily the only way to improve the program.


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[John Galt]

Didn't we also sign a JuCo OL after signing day? Not saying that hurt us this year, but PJ did add a second.


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You're correct, Ben Davis was the other: http://www.gophersports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/ben_davis_1046187.html

 

[bemidjigopher]

On Dan's Sunday sermons this morning, he was calling out PJ.

He wasn't asking for him to be fired, but he was very upset that he was playing the two cards of:

1. I'm limited with the players I have and some are hurt, and some are suspended.

and yesterday PJ said....

#2. It's all on himself (PJ). He has to do a better job.

Dan Barreiro said both get old and it's awfully early to play these two cards. It was strong criticism from Dan.

Evidently the right move would be to say something different like....

"I need to review the tape".
"We're looking forward to Tampa Bay"
"I don't have a crystal ball to know who will be healthy or suspended next week"
or
"I'm just not a very good coach, and I never should have been hired for this job. You will all soon see it was a mistake to hire me"
or
"This team has National Championship Caliber Talent, and Tracy Claeys would have been able to make it happen. My boss was an idiot for making the coaching change".


Of course, if any of those statements (if true) were uttered with that much honesty, we'd have far more to talk about between football games on sport radio than anything PJ said.



On a separate note, interesting how 5 games in, saying the health of players or the lack of players is no longer a valid excuse for PJ, But the GM of the Vikings has kept his job for the last several years with the same explanation.

You want a waaaaburger and some french cries for all that salt

 

[John Galt]

There was on O-lineman as well, that for whatever reason was "shown the door" before the class was finalized. If it was he couldn't get into the U, that's tough. If it was a move because PJ didn't know what he had, wondering if taking him would have been a better idea than handing out a scholly to a kid that never has, nor ever will see the field.

That was as planned and calculated to "build the culutre" as it gets, and one of the reasons I find Fleck's "culture" more than a little contrived. Having an extra junior O-lineman would be better for both the short term given the injuries right now, and for the long term if we were able to leave the red-shirts on the freshman we've taken them off of so far, but I don't know what the issue was.

So you don't remember what the issue was but it's PJ's fault? Maybe he simply didn't think he was good enough? Who did PJ hand out a scholarship to that will never see the field?

I don't really understand this idea that the last staff loaded up on JUCOs but PJ won't. PJ's made it clear he doesn't want to load up on JUCOs because it doesn't help long-term - outside of Kansas St. I think basically all D-1 coaches have a similar philosophy.

The last staff was taking 1-2 JUCOs per year. They took 3 in the class of 2016 (Greene, Calhoun and Wright) to make up for severe attrition and recruiting failures along the offensive line. Fleck took 2 - Silver and Davis, in addition to 2 transfers - OJ Smith and Chris Williamson. Transfers are similar to JUCOs in that they are "short-term" fixes to the roster. Fleck has an offer out to a 2018 JUCO o-lineman that was previously a 4-star recruit at LSU.

Bottom line, PJ appears to be taking JUCOs and transfers to fix the immediate roster needs as much as the previous staff did.

 

[caliGopher]

So you don't remember what the issue was but it's PJ's fault? Maybe he simply didn't think he was good enough? Who did PJ hand out a scholarship to that will never see the field?

I don't really understand this idea that the last staff loaded up on JUCOs but PJ won't. PJ's made it clear he doesn't want to load up on JUCOs because it doesn't help long-term - outside of Kansas St. I think basically all D-1 coaches have a similar philosophy.

The last staff was taking 1-2 JUCOs per year. They took 3 in the class of 2016 (Greene, Calhoun and Wright) to make up for severe attrition and recruiting failures along the offensive line. Fleck took 2 - Silver and Davis, in addition to 2 transfers - OJ Smith and Chris Williamson. Transfers are similar to JUCOs in that they are "short-term" fixes to the roster. Fleck has an offer out to a 2018 JUCO o-lineman that was previously a 4-star recruit at LSU.

Bottom line, PJ appears to be taking JUCOs and transfers to fix the immediate roster needs as much as the previous staff did.

I didn’t say it was PJs fault, but the kid was quoted that his offer was pulled. That may or may not be the case, but if it is, yeah, then it would be PJs fault, right? As far as I can tell he is the coach so he is in charge. Now Coyle did hire him so taking no responsibility may be part of the job description now, but I don’t think so.

I have no issue with not taking JUCOs or with takin them if you have a need/gap. But if you have one, that was three stars and you pull the offer, then some of the depth issues are on PJ.

A fair question is if he didn’t fit the system why bring him in? A fair answer is if you don’t want to burn redshirts on the guys you are bringing in, and your thin on the o-line, a two year band-aid on the o-line is probably better than giving a walk on kicker who makes a good press story a scholly doesn’t help your offensive line woes at all.


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[John Galt]

I didn’t say it was PJs fault, but the kid was quoted that his offer was pulled. That may or may not be the case, but if it is, yeah, then it would be PJs fault, right? As far as I can tell he is the coach so he is in charge. Now Coyle did hire him so taking no responsibility may be part of the job description now, but I don’t think so.

I have no issue with not taking JUCOs or with takin them if you have a need/gap. But if you have one, that was three stars and you pull the offer, then some of the depth issues are on PJ.

A fair question is if he didn’t fit the system why bring him in? A fair answer is if you don’t want to burn redshirts on the guys you are bringing in, and your thin on the o-line, a two year band-aid on the o-line is probably better than giving a walk on kicker who makes a good press story a scholly doesn’t help your offensive line woes at all.


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Your whole assumption is that said player (whoever it is) would be a starter or serviceable back-up. There are hundreds of 3-star players each year that we don't offer because we don't think they are good enough.

 

[PMWinSTP]

There was on O-lineman as well, that for whatever reason was "shown the door" before the class was finalized. If it was he couldn't get into the U, that's tough. If it was a move because PJ didn't know what he had, wondering if taking him would have been a better idea than handing out a scholly to a kid that never has, nor ever will see the field.

That was as planned and calculated to "build the culutre" as it gets, and one of the reasons I find Fleck's "culture" more than a little contrived. Having an extra junior O-lineman would be better for both the short term given the injuries right now, and for the long term if we were able to leave the red-shirts on the freshman we've taken them off of so far, but I don't know what the issue was.

Been thinking the same...wouldn't jucos in key red shirt positions actually benefit the development of underclassmen this year?