Badgers Ink Two-Game Series with Notre Dame

Donate To GopherHole
Without going back and checking every season's schedule, I have an impression that back in the 60's, the Gophers used to play at least one 'major' non-conf game every year - against a team from another major conference.

OK - I went and looked. Gophers top non-conf games:
1960: Neb, K-State
61: Missouri, Oregon
62: Missouri - Navy
63: Neb, Army
64: Neb - Cal
65: USC, Wash St. Missouri
66: Missouri, Stanford, Kansas
67: Utah, Neb, SMU
68: USC, Neb, Wake Forest
69: Arizona St., Neb
70: Missouri, Neb
71: Neb, Wash St.
72: Neb, Colorado, Kansas
73: Kansas, Neb
74: TCU, Nebr
75: West Mich, Oregon, Ohio
76: Wash St., West Mich, Wash
77: West Mich, UCLA, Wash
78: UCLA, Oregon St.
79: USC
80: USC
81: Oregon St.
83: Nebraska (83-14.....)

That is a stretch of over 20 years where they had at least one and sometimes up to 3 major-conference non-conf games.

What was up with '76 - played Washington State and Washington in the same year?

Anyway, imagine that type of non-conf schedule in today's climate.
 

First, congrats to WI getting this series. I'm a bit jealous. This is a tough game for me to figure who I'm rooting for. Dislike both quite a bit.
 


dpodoll68 said:
If we became the University of Medtronic Golden Targets, brought to you by General Mills, you wouldn't think that was lame?
Click to expand...

That's a lame hypothetical that'll never happen.

If we replaced Oregon St with games vs Notre Dame or some other helmet school at Soldier field, no I would not think that is lame either.
 

I thought the atmosphere at Lambeau was outstanding. The tailgating was going strong early in the AM and the crowd was in good spirits, probably because LSU fans thought the Tigers would walk all over the Badgers.

On the other hand, I also saw Wisconsin play Alabama at Jerry World. The in-stadium atmosphere was cool, but pregaming was pretty lame. Parking passes were well over $100. Wisconsin fans knew they were likely to get beat by Alabama and were just hoping for a close game. Tide fans got really pissy when it was a close game in the first half. I mean, I've never seen fans get so anxious so quickly. The two experiences definitely make me want to root for LSU when the play Alabama.

This series doesn't happen as a home-and-home. These neutral site games guarantee a big check for each school, for both games.
Notre Dame loves these neutral site games where there are large Catholic populations, so Chicago is a great venue for them. Jack Swarbrick (Notre Dame AD) presented at an alumni dinner I attended and talked about that particular strategy. It has as much to do with recruiting students as it does athletes.
Curly Lambeau played for Knute Rockne, so the historic appeal of the Irish playing at Lambeau Field is undeniable.

The media stories in the lead-up will be much more compelling than a simple high-profile home-and-home.
 


GopherWeatherGuy said:
That's a lame hypothetical that'll never happen.
Click to expand...

A few years ago, most people would've thought that a regular-season game in Arlington, TX between Michigan and Florida would "never happen". Your decision criteria on whether something is lame is how much revenue it generates. Therefore, by definition, you would be a huge fan of becoming the University of Medtronic Golden Targets - brought to you by General Mills.

GopherWeatherGuy said:
If we replaced Oregon St with games vs Notre Dame or some other helmet school at Soldier field, no I would not think that is lame either.
Click to expand...

That's a false dichotomy. We're not talking about replacing one team entirely with another, we're talking about playing the same team at different venues. If you gave me the option of a 2-game series with Notre Dame at TCF and South Bend or at Soldier Field and US Bank Stadium, I would take the former 100% of the time within a nanosecond. I think the latter is lame. That is my opinion, one shared by many fellow fans.
 

Pedantic said:
I thought the atmosphere at Lambeau was outstanding. The tailgating was going strong early in the AM and the crowd was in good spirits, probably because LSU fans thought the Tigers would walk all over the Badgers.

On the other hand, I also saw Wisconsin play Alabama at Jerry World. The in-stadium atmosphere was cool, but pregaming was pretty lame. Parking passes were well over $100. Wisconsin fans knew they were likely to get beat by Alabama and were just hoping for a close game. Tide fans got really pissy when it was a close game in the first half. I mean, I've never seen fans get so anxious so quickly. The two experiences definitely make me want to root for LSU when the play Alabama.

This series doesn't happen as a home-and-home. These neutral site games guarantee a big check for each school, for both games.
Notre Dame loves these neutral site games where there are large Catholic populations, so Chicago is a great venue for them. Jack Swarbrick (Notre Dame AD) presented at an alumni dinner I attended and talked about that particular strategy. It has as much to do with recruiting students as it does athletes.
Curly Lambeau played for Knute Rockne, so the historic appeal of the Irish playing at Lambeau Field is undeniable.

The media stories in the lead-up will be much more compelling than a simple high-profile home-and-home.
Click to expand...

Its because they don't know how to handle losing. I saw similar things happening to Badger fans last year in BWW prior to the 3rd and 4th quarter.
 

dpodoll68 said:
A few years ago, most people would've thought that a regular-season game in Arlington, TX between Michigan and Florida would "never happen".



That's a false dichotomy. We're not talking about replacing one team entirely with another, we're talking about playing the same team at different venues. If you gave me the option of a 2-game series with Notre Dame at TCF and South Bend or at Soldier Field and US Bank Stadium, I would take the former 100% of the time within a nanosecond. I think the latter is lame. That is my opinion, one shared by many fellow fans.
Click to expand...

I second this.

Two great college football venues, and they choose to play a 2-game series at neutral sites? I'd like to take a big, runny, greasy dump on all the netural-site games played in college football and basketball. Play the frickin' games at your home stadiums/arenas.
 

The only time I will root for Notre Dame is when they play the Skunks! Go Gophers!!
 



dpodoll68 said:
Your decision criteria on whether something is lame is how much revenue it generates. Therefore, by definition, you would be a huge fan of becoming the University of Medtronic Golden Targets - brought to you by General Mills.
Click to expand...

No, I said that would be the school's criteria. And the University of Minnesota will never be called the Medtronic Golden Targets - brought to you by General Mills. That's a stupid hypothetical.

dpodoll68 said:
That's a false dichotomy. We're not talking about replacing one team entirely with another, we're talking about playing the same team at different venues. If you gave me the option of a 2-game series with Notre Dame at TCF and South Bend or at Soldier Field and US Bank Stadium, I would take the former 100% of the time within a nanosecond. I think the latter is lame. That is my opinion, one shared by many fellow fans.
Click to expand...

Of course we're talking about replacing teams. In the future, the Gophers would absolutely play a helmet school at a neutral field, rather than schedule a home and home with a middling P5 team. They wouldn't do both in the same season.

I agree, I'd rather have a home and home with a helmet school like we did with USC. But with how lucrative these neutral site games have become for these schools, the odds of getting one to come to TCF is slim to none.

On top of that, the interest that it would create for the casual fans around the Twin Cities and the state of Minnesota would be extremely high. Right now most Minnesota football fans care far more about the Vikings opener, rather than the Gophers opener vs Buffalo. If the Gophers are instead opening with Notre Dame at Soldier Field on national TV, you'll have a lot more fans take notice.

Your statement was that neutral site games are 'unquestionably lame', yet it would be unquestionably stupid for a school to be offered one and turn it down.
 

Donovan said:
First, congrats to WI getting this series. I'm a bit jealous. This is a tough game for me to figure who I'm rooting for. Dislike both quite a bit.
Click to expand...

Easy. Anybody but Wisconsin.
 

GopherHomer said:
Tough non-conference games have zero value unless you think you will be in the running for the playoff. Give me 3 cream puffs before conference play every year. Many years it is the only time to get excited about certain players.
Click to expand...

Jerry, is that you?
 

I get picking a neutral site if two teams are agreeing to a one time meet, or if their stadiums don't hold as large a crowd as the neutral site. Camp Randall and Lambeau are almost identical seat wise and soldier field holds 20,000 less fans than Notre Dame's stadium.

Can someone explain the math of how they make money on this? Wouldn't whatever money you get from playing at a neutral site be offset by what you lose by NOT playing at your home venue?
 



LakerFan said:
Can someone explain the math of how they make money on this? Wouldn't whatever money you get from playing at a neutral site be offset by what you lose by NOT playing at your home venue?
Click to expand...

I've asked for this on other sites, nobody has been able to splain it to me. I know the neutral site pays and the schools claim to make more money, but how it works from the ground up and suddenly becomes way more than home money and the neutral site makes money is beyond me.

I half suspect the neutral site doesn't actually make money as much as fill a date and make it look like they're making money when really they're just treading water / not empty.
 

Originally Posted by GopherHomer:

Tough non-conference games have zero value unless you think you will be in the running for the playoff. Give me 3 cream puffs before conference play every year. Many years it is the only time to get excited about certain players.

FredCoxRocks said:
Jerry, is that you?
Click to expand...

Nope, it's Glen.
 

Let's face it - in today's world where TV calls the shots, the Gophs are not going to host a game against a Notre Dame-level opponent until or unless the team is contending for a B1G title, and they expand the stadium. No helmet school is going to schedule a home-and-home against a team that plays in a 50,000 seat stadium.

If Fleck can make the Gophers a hot commodity on the national level, I could see them getting a neutral-site game - but not at MN - at least not at TCF.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Let's face it - in today's world where TV calls the shots, the Gophs are not going to host a game against a Notre Dame-level opponent until or unless the team is contending for a B1G title, and they expand the stadium. No helmet school is going to schedule a home-and-home against a team that plays in a 50,000 seat stadium.
Click to expand...

Autzen seats 54,000, Stanford seats 50,000 and they both get helmet school opponents (Nebraska, Ohio State at Oregon; Stanford gets Notre Dame every other year at home because tradition). The major barrier is relevancy on a national scale, not the size of our stadium currently.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
I've asked for this on other sites, nobody has been able to splain it to me. I know the neutral site pays and the schools claim to make more money, but how it works from the ground up and suddenly becomes way more than home money and the neutral site makes money is beyond me.

I half suspect the neutral site doesn't actually make money as much as fill a date and make it look like they're making money when really they're just treading water / not empty.
Click to expand...

I think part of it is TV money. The BTN (WI) and NBC (ND) contracts are for home games. A neutral site game is independent and on top of any other TV money you are getting. Add to that it's a prime time game (often with little or no competing games) and they can afford to pay more than either could pay as a home team. Plus they can charge more for tickets, one because people are willing to pay for "the experience" and two because they aren't part of a season ticket package (again, not a home game). I'm guessing tickets average $60/$70 as part of the season ticket package for either school (not counting donations). I'd bet they charge $100 or more on average at the neutral site. Not to mention all the student section tickets that are probably $20 or less...

It makes a lot less sense in Minneapolis when you can walk between the stadiums. But if the main U of M campus was in Rochester (or Mankato or Duluth or...) there would be a great appeal to play a NC game in US Bank Stadium. As it is, it would seem silly unless done for capacity...

short ornery norwegian said:
Let's face it - in today's world where TV calls the shots, the Gophs are not going to host a game against a Notre Dame-level opponent until or unless the team is contending for a B1G title, and they expand the stadium. No helmet school is going to schedule a home-and-home against a team that plays in a 50,000 seat stadium.

If Fleck can make the Gophers a hot commodity on the national level, I could see them getting a neutral-site game - but not at MN - at least not at TCF.
Click to expand...

I will guarantee they will not get a neutral site game at TCF... :)
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
I've asked for this on other sites, nobody has been able to splain it to me. I know the neutral site pays and the schools claim to make more money, but how it works from the ground up and suddenly becomes way more than home money and the neutral site makes money is beyond me.

I half suspect the neutral site doesn't actually make money as much as fill a date and make it look like they're making money when really they're just treading water / not empty.
Click to expand...

These are the benefits Alabama and Florida St are getting for this year's game.

Each team gets $5 million plus:

30,000 game tickets priced between $125 and $250 (If I average the price to $175 per ticket, that's another 5.25 million)
100 free hotel rooms in Atlanta the night before the game
A $50,000 scholarship
Free tickets to the College Football Hall of Fame

So over likely over $10 million for each school for one game. Now that's for Alabama and Florida St, I'm sure Wisconsin, Minnesota, etc would not get that type of money.

According to this it looks like the Gophers generated about 12.5 million in revenue from football ticket sales last year. http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/minn/genrel/auto_pdf/2016-17/misc_non_event/2016NCAAReport.pdf

Even if you become conservative with those numbers, let's say $1.5 million + 15,000 tickets at $150 per ticket, that's still nearly $4 million for one game, or 1/3 of last year's ticket revenue. On top of that, this would replace the 'home and home' that we've had on the schedule with teams like Oregon St, TCU, etc essentially eliminating one of those true road games. You could still schedule two weaker non-conference opponents at home, and have 7 home games.
 

Why such the distaste for neutral settings? With the exception of a potential bowl game its only 1 game on their entire schedule that's on a neutral site.

Personally, I don't take offense to watching teams play in pre-season basketball tournaments like the UNC/Kentucky game that was played in Vegas last year. Or watching a college bowl game with my team playing on a neutral field. I care more about the actual 2 teams playing than the location.

That said, I'm not so sure about watching outdoor hockey on a baseball diamond from a viewing aspect or a basketball game held on an aircraft carrier. I guess if that was the way UW and UND could come to an agreement, it's better than not playing at all in my opinion. I sure wish MN could play UND in a 2 game series at Soldier Field and US Bank Stadium.
 

Iceland12 said:
How many LSU fans would you guess were able to get tickets and do you know how much the two teams got paid?
Click to expand...

LSU & Wisconsin both Received 20k in tickets at Lambeau. LSU sold everyone. The Packers sold the remaining and all premium seats.

It was a pretty fun game!

My understanding from the article is that ND and Wisconsin essentially "rented" Lambeau field this time around taking on all operational costs and receiving the ticket rev.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
I guess you should let all the helmet schools know that what they continue to do is 'unquestionably lame'. And turn down the large amount of money they are getting for them.

FSU and Alabama are getting paid 5 million each, plus 30,000 tickets priced between $125-$250 along with other benefits for their game this year. https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/alabama-football/bama-can-nearly-pay-nick-sabans-salary-payout-17-game-vs-fsu/
Click to expand...

I think these type of games are GREAT for determining who gets in the CFP


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
No, I said that would be the school's criteria. And the University of Minnesota will never be called the Medtronic Golden Targets - brought to you by General Mills. That's a stupid hypothetical.
Click to expand...

What about it is a "stupid hypothetical"? Again, you stated that a school's decision-making criteria is based primarily on revenue. Are you trying to argue that selling naming rights to the school would not generate more revenue? If so, why would they not do that?

Or, maybe, just maybe (and this is a big leap, so try to stick with me here) there are other factors in assessing the quality of a choice aside from how much revenue it generates? Seems pretty far-fetched, I know, but just this crazy theory I have.
 

dpodoll68 said:
What about it is a "stupid hypothetical"? Again, you stated that a school's decision-making criteria is based primarily on revenue. Are you trying to argue that selling naming rights to the school would not generate more revenue? If so, why would they not do that?

Or, maybe, just maybe (and this is a big leap, so try to stick with me here) there are other factors in assessing the quality of a choice aside from how much revenue it generates? Seems pretty far-fetched, I know, but just this crazy theory I have.
Click to expand...

The only thing that is far fetched is you stating that playing a neutral site game is 'unquestionably lame'. That statement is wrong. There are many positives to playing a neutral site game.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
The only thing that is far fetched is you stating that playing a neutral site game is 'unquestionably lame'. That statement is wrong. There are many positives to playing a neutral site game.
Click to expand...

How can an opinion be wrong?

Great job on the pivot and deflect, by the way.
 


GopherWeatherGuy said:
You said it was unquestionable. Opinions are opinions, and are definitely questionable.
Click to expand...

I think these neutral site games in NFL stadiums are great for everyone, especially when they are teams that matter (not the ND Shamrock Series generally) and the teams are somewhere where the fanbase will travel to.

I give great credit to ND and Wisconsin for getting this done. There is some history between the programs, yet they have not played for 53 years, and the this game does appeal greatly to both fan bases. Wisconsin fans can get to Chicago easily and ND fans will flock to Green Bay.

The ND rivalries in the Big Ten were getting sort of stale anyway, and it was great to finally see ND have to face Ohio State twice in the last 20 years (neither matchup ended well for Notre Dame), and I also enjoyed seeing the ND game two years ago with Nothwestern and look forward to this years game at Ryan Field. I'd really like to see Iowa, Minnesota and even Illinois get a game in vs Notre Dame again.

I wish we could play one of these games at US Bank Stadium and maybe in Indy vs. ND for example. (or maybe the Washington Huskies at the Seahawks stadium then at US Bank Stadium the next year.

These games tend to have some appeal to me when they are on TV and it is better than a one off game at Jerrywoirld in Dallas, which I also like.
 

Another factor is that some (Notre Dame for one) teams don't want to play at Camp Randall, feeling it gives the Badgers an advantage. (Doesn't the ND campus give them the advanatage?) I think Badger fans, as would most college football fans, would prefer the games be in Madison and South Bend, but that wasn't going to happen. If a neutral site is what it takes to get the game scheduled, I'm all for it. The LSU game in Lambeau was a blast.

Soldier Field is a dump, but I love going to Chicago and it's close, so it's not like we're playing in Salt Lake City or something. What I can't figure out is why ND is the home team at Lambeau and UW is home at Soldier Field. That's a head scratcher.
 

TAW said:
Another factor is that some (Notre Dame for one) teams don't want to play at Camp Randall, feeling it gives the Badgers an advantage. (Doesn't the ND campus give them the advanatage?) I think Badger fans, as would most college football fans, would prefer the games be in Madison and South Bend, but that wasn't going to happen. If a neutral site is what it takes to get the game scheduled, I'm all for it. The LSU game in Lambeau was a blast.

Soldier Field is a dump, but I love going to Chicago and it's close, so it's not like we're playing in Salt Lake City or something. What I can't figure out is why ND is the home team at Lambeau and UW is home at Soldier Field. That's a head scratcher.
Click to expand...

Don't blame the Damers for not wanting to play at Camp Randall. Total dump that still uses outside portapodies.
 

ruppertflywheel said:
Don't blame the Damers for not wanting to play at Camp Randall. Total dump that still uses outside portapodies.
Click to expand...

Well, in fairness, their fans drink an average of 62 beers apiece, so there's bound to be an excessive demand for toilets.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom