Badgers in 2012: Who will return?

[dpodoll68]

Why do you set yourself up for looking silly over Ryan Groy? This is Wisconsin. The OL is about 9 deep.

Why do you say things that can neither be proven or disproven? On the basis of one start, you're calling Ryan Groy this huge stud?

Here, I'll try - "if MarQueis Gray had committed to Oregon, he would've won 3 Heismans by now."

You're right! That was fun!

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

Asking the wrong question...

It doesn't really matter who the Badgers lose, because they always have someone just as good or better behind them. Just ask Ohio Valley Badger, he'll tell you.

What players return for Wisky next year is not nearly as important as what coaches come back. If OC Chryst and O-line coach Bostad bail together next year, that will make me one happy camper. Chryst has been bailing out Bielema for several years and their offense more than makes up for the inadequacies of the defense.

Chryst is a brilliant OC. Time will tell if the right opportunity comes up for him to decide to move on. Not sure what happened with the move to Texas last year as a lateral move to being the OC at UT would have clearly been a step up. More than likely he was just using that as leverage for more $$$.

It'll be interesting to see if a head gig comes up that would make him move on. Could be an interesting offseason.

 

[dpodoll68]

What players return for Wisky next year is not nearly as important as what coaches come back.

You just don't get it. It doesn't matter who's on the coaching staff. Any OL instantly becomes a first-team All-American as soon as he puts on the drunken W helmet. Their entire second-team OL would all be starting at any other school in the country. Their walk-on 4th-string LT was going to transfer to Alabama (where he would've started from day 1, of course), but he'd rather pay for the privilege of playing for such a legendary program.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

You Badger fans are hilarious. You are literally taking time out of your day to troll a 2-win Minnesota team's message board. That is the definition of pathetic. You realize that the core of Pantherhawk's pathetic-ness was that he was an adult trolling a message board? You share that with him. You are literally a trombone and a picture of Dallas Clark (or whoever the Sconny equivelent would be...maybe Owen Daniels) away from being Pantherhawk.

There is nothing in this thread or any other thread that would make any normal human feel the need to "defend their team". There has to be a void in your life that would make you feel the need to seek out attention by trolling on the internet, especially something like the Gopher football team.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

You just don't get it. It doesn't matter who's on the coaching staff. Any OL instantly becomes a first-team All-American as soon as he puts on the drunken W helmet. Their entire second-team OL would all be starting at any other school in the country. Their walk-on 4th-string LT was going to transfer to Alabama (where he would've started from day 1, of course), but he'd rather pay for the privilege of playing for such a legendary program.

Badger fans REALLY do think WI is one of those great programs. Seriously, they do.

 

[Badger_inohiovalley]

Badger fans REALLY do think WI is one of those great programs. Seriously, they do.

Bob....we just love to talk Badger football! This is one of the best sites to do that on. It's a constant topic here as evidenced by all the threads.

I'm curious how you define a great program? If you could assign a measurement for me, I'd like to know. I'd say that 20 years of a 10-6 bowl record, four conference championships, three BCS bowl wins and a top 15 national record probably gives us a lot of confidence in our program. It is tough being us.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Bob....we just love to talk Badger football! This is one of the best sites to do that on. It's a constant topic here as evidenced by all the threads.

I'm curious how you define a great program? If you could assign a measurement for me, I'd like to know. I'd say that 20 years of a 10-6 bowl record, four conference championships, three BCS bowl wins and a top 15 national record probably gives us a lot of confidence in our program. It is tough being us.

If this is one of the best spots for you to talk Badger football, you should read up on this brand new invention called google. You can find it, put www.google.com into the browser, and just put "Badger football message boards", into the search function. You'll be able to find a real website dedicated to YOUR team, it's really nifty. They might not be very warm to you either though, real fans don't like trolls. Trolls give the entire fanbase a bad name, and they are just the lowest form of human life. I can't stand trolls even if they support the same teams that I support, so they might not be a big fan of you over there either.

WI is a good football program, it's just simply not elite. I'm not ripping on WI by any means, I think they are a very good program. I don't like Burt, but I don't really rip on him. I liked Alvarez, I respect our rivals.

But that said, since 2000:
Top 10 finish: 2
BCS Bowls: 1

Oregon-
Top 10's: 4
BCS: 2

Iowa-
Top 10's: 4
BCS: 2

Penn St-
Top 10's: 4
BCS: 2

There are about 6-7 other schools who I wouldn't consider elite who could go into this list who have also faired better than WI at those key areas of how you judge a "great" or elite program.

OK....now we are going to get to the Top Tier Programs
LSU:
Top 10s: 6
BCS: 4
National Championships:2*

Texas:
Top 10s: 6
BCS: 4
National Championships: 1

Oklahoma:
Top 10s: 7
BCS: 8
National Championships: 1

Ohio St:
Top 10s: 7
BCS: 8
National Championships: 1

Now, you can keep doing this with Florida, USC, etc.

You'll see when you look at Top 10 finishes, BCS Bowl Game (or equivelent), and for some National Championships, WI is simply NOT elite. They are a good program though, i'm not ripping on them. They just aren't anywhere near that elite category. This season with WI, I think we can all agree was WI's most talented football team and they had a legit chance of going undefeated and even possibly playing in the BCS Championship. A season like this is extremely rare, even for a good program like WI. However, the elite programs, have a season where they and their fanbase legitimately (and correctly) believe they have a CHANCE to run the table about every other year. WI is NOT in that category.

 

[Badger2010]

If this is one of the best spots for you to talk Badger football, you should read up on this brand new invention called google. You can find it, put www.google.com into the browser, and just put "Badger football message boards", into the search function. You'll be able to find a real website dedicated to YOUR team, it's really nifty. They might not be very warm to you either though, real fans don't like trolls. Trolls give the entire fanbase a bad name, and they are just the lowest form of human life. I can't stand trolls even if they support the same teams that I support, so they might not be a big fan of you over there either.

WI is a good football program, it's just simply not elite. I'm not ripping on WI by any means, I think they are a very good program. I don't like Burt, but I don't really rip on him. I liked Alvarez, I respect our rivals.

But that said, since 2000:
Top 10 finish: 2
BCS Bowls: 1

Oregon-
Top 10's: 4
BCS: 2

Iowa-
Top 10's: 4
BCS: 2

Penn St-
Top 10's: 4
BCS: 2

There are about 6-7 other schools who I wouldn't consider elite who could go into this list who have also faired better than WI at those key areas of how you judge a "great" or elite program.

OK....now we are going to get to the Top Tier Programs
LSU:
Top 10s: 6
BCS: 4
National Championships:2*

Texas:
Top 10s: 6
BCS: 4
National Championships: 1

Oklahoma:
Top 10s: 7
BCS: 8
National Championships: 1

Ohio St:
Top 10s: 7
BCS: 8
National Championships: 1

Now, you can keep doing this with Florida, USC, etc.

You'll see when you look at Top 10 finishes, BCS Bowl Game (or equivelent), and for some National Championships, WI is simply NOT elite. They are a good program though, i'm not ripping on them. They just aren't anywhere near that elite category. This season with WI, I think we can all agree was WI's most talented football team and they had a legit chance of going undefeated and even possibly playing in the BCS Championship. A season like this is extremely rare, even for a good program like WI. However, the elite programs, have a season where they and their fanbase legitimately (and correctly) believe they have a CHANCE to run the table about every other year. WI is NOT in that category.

If Oregon, Penn State and Iowa (no Rose Bowl's since 1990) are elite, then Wisconsin is at least close to elite. I'm not saying we are elite, but going off your definition, how can you say we "aren't anywhere near elite."

Also, the year 2000 is an arbitrary cutoff point. If you include 1999 and 1998, we have been to 3 BCS games, won 3 conference championships and have 4 top 10 finishes.

By comparison, during that time, Iowa has 2 Big Ten championships, 2 BCS bowl games, and 4 top 10 finishes.

Oregon has 4 Pac 10 championships, 3 BCS bowl games, and 5 Top 10 finishes.

Penn State has 2 Big Ten championships, 2 BCS bowl games, and 3 Top 10 finishes.


Just going off what you said, not trying to troll. The only team better than us since 1998, only 2 years before you chose to apply your metrics, on your list (not including top-tier) is Oregon. In fact, we are ahead of Iowa and Penn State in every category except for Top 10 finishes, in which we are tied with Iowa at 4.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

If Oregon, Penn State and Iowa (no Rose Bowl's since 1990) are elite, then Wisconsin is at least close to elite. I'm not saying we are elite, but going off your definition, we certainly are not "no where near elite."

Also, the year 2000 is an arbitrary cutoff point. If you include 1999 and 1998, we have been two 3 BCS games, won 3 conference championships and have 4 top 10 finishes.

By comparison, during that time, Iowa has 2 Big Ten championships, 2 BCS bowl games, and 4 top 10 finishes.

Oregon has 4 Pac 10 championships, 3 BCS bowl games, and 5 Top 10 finishes.

Penn State has 2 Big Ten championships, 2 BCS bowl games, and 3 Top 10 finishes.


Just going off what you said, not trying to troll. The only team better than us since 1998, only 2 years before you chose to apply your metrics, on your list (not including top-tier) is Oregon. In fact, we are ahead of Iowa and Penn State in every category except for Top 10 finishes, in which we are tied with Iowa at 4.

Anytime you pick is arbitrary, I picked since the 2000s. I actually didn't do it to purposefully, I did it because I was doing it quickly and I was thinking the past 10 years and I made a mathematical error, when the time from 2000-2010 is really 11 seasons. However, you going back 20 years or 13 years is arbitrary as well, why not go back 30 years? Because it makes WI look a step down.

So, the stats should have been since 2001, since I wanted to go for the past decade, but I was in a hurry and messed up.

That said, I didn't explain what I was saying. I am fine with people lumping WI with IA and teams of that ilk. They are in that list of schools with good programs who I wouldn't consider to be elite programs. I think they are about the same as Iowa over the past decade, Iowa is a hair better but WI seems to be doing better recently. I also think Oregon is slightly better. However, my main point is that they are NOT elite. They are not in the LSU/Alabama/Oklahoma/Texas/Ohio St category.

This argument came about because I said that WI has a certain sections of fans that believe they are one of the great programs, like they are one of the elites. Without fail, one of your brethren chimed in about how he thought they were. Keep in mind, this was in reference to comparing them to the U of Alabama. Therefore, badgeridiot_in_mom'sbasement must've thought that comparing Alabama and WI was apt. It obviously is not for a vareity of reasons. Wisconsin is NOT in that elite group, in fact, they aren't even close.

That second category down of good programs, sure, they are in there. However, over the past decade, they haven't really been one of the better from that group either, but i'll give ya, they've been in that relatively large group of good but not elite programs over the past decade.

 

[Badger_inohiovalley]

This argument came about because I said that WI has a certain sections of fans that believe they are one of the great programs, like they are one of the elites. Without fail, one of your brethren chimed in about how he thought they were. Keep in mind, this was in reference to comparing them to the U of Alabama. Therefore, badgeridiot_in_mom'sbasement must've thought that comparing Alabama and WI was apt. It obviously is not for a vareity of reasons. Wisconsin is NOT in that elite group, in fact, they aren't even close.

That second category down of good programs, sure, they are in there. However, over the past decade, they haven't really been one of the better from that group either, but i'll give ya, they've been in that relatively large group of good but not elite programs over the past decade.

Enormous strawman. Problem is, we can all see what I said. I never said UW was on the same level as Alabama....or anything close. I know exactly what the UW program is, and has earned. I said we have reason to have confidence in our program.

I don't know a single Badger fan that would put UW on a level plane as Texas, Ohio State or Alabama. Do you care to show me one who did? As a season ticket holder, and someone who reads most UW message boards (including this one) I have yet to find a fan who equates UW with those teams.

Your argument is a symptom of your jealousy. It is why you have to create an alternate reality in building your strawman.

 

[zambam]

ALL GOPHER FANS, STOP POSTING IN THREADS WITH BADGER TROLLS SO THEY GO AWAY. That is all.

 

[GVBadger]

ALL GOPHER FANS, STOP POSTING IN THREADS WITH BADGER TROLLS SO THEY GO AWAY. That is all.

Maybe they should also stop starting threads about Wisconsin. That may help as well.

 

[Badger2010]

I don't know a single Badger fan that would put UW on a level plane as Texas, Ohio State or Alabama. Do you care to show me one who did? As a season ticket holder, and someone who reads most UW message boards (including this one) I have yet to find a fan who equates UW with those teams./QUOTE]

This is what I thought too. I haven't seen anyone say that we are in the same class as Alabama, OSU, Oklahoma, USC, etc. I doubt we ever will be what those programs are; you need decades upon decades of success, and you need to be regular (at least twice a decade) contenders for a national championship, or at least that's my take.

However, I do think we have a chance to be on the level of Penn State, Nebraska, Oregon, Georgia, etc. These programs have the tradition, but over the 10-15 years, we have been relatively equal to them. If that continues for another 10-15 years, then we have, in my opinion, become a great program. Not elite, like Texas, OU, USC, Bama, etc., but a great program that can contend for a national championship every now and then and will continually challenge for BCS bowl games.

 

[zambam]

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Enormous strawman. Problem is, we can all see what I said. I never said UW was on the same level as Alabama....or anything close. I know exactly what the UW program is, and has earned. I said we have reason to have confidence in our program.

I don't know a single Badger fan that would put UW on a level plane as Texas, Ohio State or Alabama. Do you care to show me one who did? As a season ticket holder, and someone who reads most UW message boards (including this one) I have yet to find a fan who equates UW with those teams.

Your argument is a symptom of your jealousy. It is why you have to create an alternate reality in building your strawman.

I'm not jealous of other people's accomplishments. I'm not surprised that a Badger troll would take great pride in something other people have accomplished, because as i've said, trolls are always losers. It's just a fact. However, if I was going to be jealous of a program, I would pick an elite one, not one that is on par with Iowa.

Now onto my apparent strawman...

Let's break it down for you.

DPO said: "the 4th string OL was thinking of going to ALABAMA" as a joke.
I said: "Badger fans really do think of themselves like THOSE great programs"
- - Ok, now this is called deductive reasoning, the "THOSE" is in reference to programs that are LIKE ALABAMA.
You chimed in with your diatribe defending that position, it can not be thought of any in other way.

Here is an example:
If I said that London is a better city than Paris, and then you responded by telling me all of the great things about Paris, the only PLAUSIBLE assumption is that you would think that Paris is better than London, or else you would have prefaced it by saying "I don't think Paris is better than London however...". Similarily, if you weren't trying to argue that Wisconsin was like THOSE GREAT PROGRAMS(in obvious reference to Alabama), you shouldn't have made the argument about their "greatness". It's simple rules of logical construction.

So you implied that Wisconsin was one of THOSE GREAT PROGRAMS (like Alabama).

It shouldn't be that difficult for you to understand, but trolls hate logic. I actually don't think most Wisconsin fans believe that they are on par with the elite programs, but trolls aren't really fans anyway and are prone to delusion.

 

[zambam]

DDDDDDDDDDDIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

 

[Badger_inohiovalley]

Bob...are you going to show me Badger fans who think that the UW is on a level field with those top programs? Or you going to snivel away hoping that your ridiculous claim doesn't get brought up again?

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Bob...are you going to show me Badger fans who think that the UW is on a level field with those top programs? Or you going to snivel away hoping that your ridiculous claim doesn't get brought up again?

I just showed how you did. You're the one ducking your own argument. It's the online equivalent of putting your hands over your ears and yelling "I can't hear you". It's ok though, I realize that it's over your head. You have no real argument, because it was your own words comparing WI to "those top programs" in reference to Alabama.


Care to explain how my logical construction of what YOU said when you compared WI to THOSE TOP PROGRAMS (in reference to Alabama) could have implied anything else?

The only argument you could make is that you're not a Badger fan, and that's probably a pretty good argument considering trolls aren't really fans.

 

[maroonfive]

These badger trolls are posting like there is actually something in Wisconsin. Who knew? All this time I thought it was a place to stop and take a dump on the way to Chicago.

 

[Badger_inohiovalley]

Bob....please cut and paste where I compared Wisconsin to the elite programs. Not where you projected that. Where I said it.

I asked you what criteria you use for elite. I said nothing to the tune of comparing Wisconsin to those programs.

Here is my direct quote...."I'm curious how you define a great program? If you could assign a measurement for me, I'd like to know. I'd say that 20 years of a 10-6 bowl record, four conference championships, three BCS bowl wins and a top 15 national record probably gives us a lot of confidence in our program. It is tough being us."

Please explain how you can take that to mean that I equate Wisconsin to Alabama. You are going to have to get creative. Do us a favor....don't post what you think. Show me what I posted to give you any reason to think I equated the UW to the top programs. My reply was to you. Not dpoll. Stand on your own two legs.

 

[year of the gopher]

"...Our offense didn't move the ball very well, but that was due more to our own ineptness then Wisconsin's "talent" on defense."

Very well? You didn't move it at all after posting three touchdowns, 415 total yards and 22 first downs at E. Lansing against MSU's so-called vaunted defense. On your own field you had 9 first downs and 156 total yards of offense. Your offense didn't score a single touchdown. Do you realize how truly pathetic that is?

Inept? Yeah. No doubt, but not all of that was self-destruction.

You were out-classed on both sides of the ball. We never broke a sweat.

Keep displaying the badger class dude.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

My reply was to you. Not dpoll. Stand on your own two legs.

First, you need to google what the phrase "stand on your own two legs" means.
I'm not asking or relying on assistance from Dpo, I merely brought him up because this entire thing is in reference to my reply to Dpo's post. It filled in the blank on what I was referring to in my post. This shouldn't be difficult for anyone with a fully functioning brain.

As to the "substance" of your argument...

You aren't really unable to understand reading in context are you? In sort of seems like you are hinting at that and I just can't imagine someone wouldn't understand that communication is always done with certain inferences and in the context of the prior statements.

If Person A said "The Badgers are really good"
and Person B replied "Yeah, they are".
Do you understand who Person B is referring to when he says "they", or does that also escape you?

Similarily...
If A says "Persa is the best QB in the Big 10";
and B says "Wilson has more TD passes, higher QB rating, etc."
You do understand there is an implication in there right? You do understand that B, implicitly is arguing that Wilson is the better QB. We both realize it would then be EXTREMELY dumb to not understand that there was an inference, right? We both realize it doesn't take any creativity, rather it's just common sense.

You argued that WI was on Alabama's level and hiding behind the lack of formality in the way people communicate, I don't know if you are really that dumb or you are just running away from YOUR idiotic argument.

 

[zambam]

WHY WON'T THIS THREAD DIE?!?!?!!?!?!

 

[Badger_inohiovalley]

You argued that WI was on Alabama's level and hiding behind the lack of formality in the way people communicate, I don't know if you are really that dumb or you are just running away from YOUR idiotic argument.

You still haven't shown anywhere that I compared Wisconsin to Alabama. You keep sniveling away from showing the quotes where I do. You need evidence to win a discussion like this. Just go get the evidence. It should be right there easy to quote.

What's great about this thread is that you have to create an alternate reality to try to prove what you think. You can't do it with quotes. It's very entertaining!

I love this board. You guys are excellent at discussion UW football.

 

[Unregistered User]

Blah, blah, blah

You know, if you hadn't been proving otherwise over your posting career, I would almost think that you're being clever in keeping Bob spinning his head on the proverbial baseball bat, but as the old adage goes:

"Better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt".

You've been flapping your gums here long enough to identify yourself.

 

[Badger_inohiovalley]

Honestly....is it out of line to ask someone to back up their claims with actual quoted evidence? I don't think that's too much to ask.

 

[Unregistered User]

Honestly....is it out of line to ask someone to back up their claims with actual quoted evidence? I don't think that's too much to ask.

You're not really very good at this.

 

[Parski1]

Honestly....is it out of line to ask someone to back up their claims with actual quoted evidence? I don't think that's too much to ask.

Bob - I think you need to go home.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

You still haven't shown anywhere that I compared Wisconsin to Alabama. You keep sniveling away from showing the quotes where I do. You need evidence to win a discussion like this. Just go get the evidence. It should be right there easy to quote.

What's great about this thread is that you have to create an alternate reality to try to prove what you think. You can't do it with quotes. It's very entertaining!

I love this board. You guys are excellent at discussion UW football.

Your post where you listed off Sconny's accomplishments as a response to me saying that WI fans think their team is as good as programs like WI.

I was talking about programs like Alabama (the standard) and then chimed in with your description of WI's accolades. There is where you compared WI with Alabama. It's still over your head huh?

 

[zambam]

DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE