B1G Talent

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GopherWeatherGuy said:
I actually tend to agree with you on this statement.
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Don’t even want to debate talent this year vs last. However, which of the following do you put Maryland ahead of when you rate them #4?
OSU
Michigan
Wisconsin
Penn State

MSU, Nebraska, Iowa all have quite a bit of talent as well.


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Keep in mind that Kill/Clayes recruited players to fit their system. Entirely new system especially on defense. Not to mention they left the cupboard bare at QB.

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Word said:
Maybe the eventual ceiling will be higher with Fleck if he can recruit better than Kill/Claeys, but I feel like Kill/Claeys were better at getting the most out of their talent.

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Quite the conclusion after 4 games.
 

Word said:
How about the rest of the team?

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How did Claeys win at home by 7 vs Oregon St? How? When PJ coached them to a 34 point victory AT Oregon St? How? How? How? How? How does that happen? How?


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GopherWeatherGuy said:
I actually tend to agree with you on this statement.
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You guys ever heard of year 1 vs year 4, 5, or 6? Or no? Too bad we still don't have Claeys, the program would be in such better shape. Darn.


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Word said:
Maybe the eventual ceiling will be higher with Fleck if he can recruit better than Kill/Claeys, but I feel like Kill/Claeys were better at getting the most out of their talent.

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The operative word being _their_ talent. Of course they were, because they recruited players for _their_ system.
The only thing we learned today is that Fleck's team needs to be perfect this season if they want to win because their personnel do not match their system.
We're witnessing another rebuild, whether we go kicking and screaming or happily wagging our tails.

Fleck has already torn this team to shreds, now we wait. And I cancel my season tickets for next year.
 


Some Day...Maybe said:
You guys ever heard of year 1 vs year 4, 5, or 6? Or no? Too bad we still don't have Claeys, the program would be in such better shape. Darn.


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I was just giving credit to the previous staff who I thought were very good with X's and O's on defense. If you follow my posts at all, I'll take Fleck over Claeys all day everyday. Fleck will get the talent here, it just takes time. The whole basis of this thread was to point out the talent gap between Maryland and Minnesota. The sleeping giant of Maryland is more likely to awaken sooner than Minnesota. But Washington DC is also a talent rich area.
 

fippled said:
Keep in mind that Kill/Clayes recruited players to fit their system. Entirely new system especially on defense. Not to mention they left the cupboard bare at QB.

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Has the offense or defense you've watched so far this year been much different than the previous few years? When in the past has the QB cupboard been full here?
 



short ornery norwegian said:
It's PJ Fleck in Concert - the "No Expectations" tour!

So, just out of curiosity, when are Gopher fans allowed to have expectations? 2 years - 3 years - 10 years - never?

We keep being told that Fleck is a better coach and a better recruiter - but we can't expect him to win as many games as the departed bad coach and bad recruiter. Why? Because.
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Wow! 3-1 and you're already crying. Kill's teams were awesome his first few years! 3-9, 6-7! You're right, any coach should be able to just pick up right where the old staff left off! Why would Fleck want to do it his way? Didn't work at Western. 1 secondary starter today. 2 expelled from University that probably would have been starters this year. Starting QB was cut by old staff! Ya, how long do we have to wait???? 3-1 sucks! Probably won't win another game. Seasons over.


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GopherWeatherGuy said:
I was just giving credit to the previous staff who I thought were very good with X's and O's on defense. If you follow my posts at all, I'll take Fleck over Claeys all day everyday. Fleck will get the talent here, it just takes time. The whole basis of this thread was to point out the talent gap between Maryland and Minnesota. The sleeping giant of Maryland is more likely to awaken sooner than Minnesota. But Washington DC is also a talent rich area.
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I'm on the same page as you. I agree. Wasn't meant for you.


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I continue to be amazed by how people "misremember" (copyright Roger Clemens) past Gopher coaching regimes. In the past 6 years, we won a grand total of ONE game against a top 25 opponent (@Nebraska who was ranked somewhere between 20-25). In year 4 of the Kill era we lost to a horrific Illinois team that was on something like a 20 game conference losing streak...and that was during one of (if not the) the best seasons in the past 30 years of Gopher football. 5 years in to their tenure, we were winning by three at home against Ohio and Kent State!

Flash forward to this year and PJ Fleck in his first year loses a home game to Maryland...and all of a sudden he can't compare to the coaching juggernauts this University has seen since their last conference title in '67? Maybe he deserves just a bit more time?
 





Some Day...Maybe said:
How did Claeys win at home by 7 vs Oregon St? How? When PJ coached them to a 34 point victory AT Oregon St? How? How? How? How? How does that happen? How?


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Shocking isn't it? Maybe both teams, or all teams, are different this year...
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
It's almost like there's a strong correlation between recruiting rankings and wins! Amazing!
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You're dumb if you think that this Maryland team is more skilled than this Gopher team.
Fleck suspended our best corner and then bitched about db depth.
He's not trying to win.
He wants this to be a turnaround story, no better way to start that than a 0-9 b1g season
 

hello-world said:
You're dumb if you think that this Maryland team is more skilled than this Gopher team.
Fleck suspended our best corner and then bitched about db depth.
He's not trying to win.
He wants this to be a turnaround story, no better way to start that than a 0-9 b1g season
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when did this happen?
 

hello-world said:
You're dumb if you think that this Maryland team is more skilled than this Gopher team.
Fleck suspended our best corner and then bitched about db depth.
He's not trying to win.
He wants this to be a turnaround story, no better way to start that than a 0-9 b1g season
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Except for recruiting. Recruits aren't going to buy it.
 


Yep, let's find a way to spin PJ losing to one of the worst teams in the B1G, and blame it on a coaching staff who absolutely rolled them last year on the road with almost the exact same team (including Rhoda). Totally logical.
 

hello-world said:
You're dumb if you think that this Maryland team is more skilled than this Gopher team.
Fleck suspended our best corner and then bitched about db depth.
He's not trying to win.
He wants this to be a turnaround story, no better way to start that than a 0-9 b1g season
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Lol if you actually believe any of this I'm pretty sure I'm not the dumb one.
 

Heracles said:
Yep, let's find a way to spin PJ losing to one of the worst teams in the B1G, and blame it on a coaching staff who absolutely rolled them last year on the road with almost the exact same team (including Rhoda). Totally logical.
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3 players started on defense today that started last year versus them. How is that the exact same team?
 

I am reacting to other posters. Gophers win 1st three games, and score a lot of points = posters rave about the wonderful things the new coaching staff is accomplishing.

gophers play poorly and lose to Maryland = and suddenly we're hearing about lack of talent, lack of depth. Yes, a few players are missing - but this is largely the same team that won the 1st three games.

Look, I am not saying this is an immensely talented roster, but there is at least some talent here.

To be blunt - there are people on this board who simply will not criticize Fleck or the other coaches. Some of these same people had no trouble criticizing the former coaching staff, but apparently the rules changed along with the coaching staff.

There is a middle ground between "blame the coaches for everything" and "blame the coaches for nothing." A lot of factors go into deciding the outcome of a football game. Coaching, and coaching decisions, make up some of those factors. Some - not all. Some of it is on the players and their decisions. Yes, injuries play a role, too.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
I am reacting to other posters. Gophers win 1st three games, and score a lot of points = posters rave about the wonderful things the new coaching staff is accomplishing.

gophers play poorly and lose to Maryland = and suddenly we're hearing about lack of talent, lack of depth. Yes, a few players are missing - but this is largely the same team that won the 1st three games.

Look, I am not saying this is an immensely talented roster, but there is at least some talent here.

To be blunt - there are people on this board who simply will not criticize Fleck or the other coaches. Some of these same people had no trouble criticizing the former coaching staff, but apparently the rules changed along with the coaching staff.

There is a middle ground between "blame the coaches for everything" and "blame the coaches for nothing." A lot of factors go into deciding the outcome of a football game. Coaching, and coaching decisions, make up some of those factors. Some - not all. Some of it is on the players and their decisions. Yes, injuries play a role, too.
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Those same posters were talking about lack of talent and depth before the season started.

Some posters a few days ago were accrediting the defensive success of the first few games to the previous staffs recruiting abilities. Now of course these same posters are blaming the defensive play on the coaching staff.
 

They are mostly the same players that played in the bowl game, right? Why wouldn't they question the defensive coaching?
 

jrock said:
They are mostly the same players that played in the bowl game, right? Why wouldn't they question the defensive coaching?
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That's not really my point. I'm saying some posters will acreddit whatever success the Gophers have this year to the previous coaching and whatever failure they have on the current coaching staff.
 

jrock said:
They are mostly the same players that played in the bowl game, right? Why wouldn't they question the defensive coaching?
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No they're not. There's only two starters on today's defense that were the same as the bowl game: Celestin and Richardson.
 

You need to understand how far Maryland recruiting has come under Durkin. In the last two years he has recruited two top 20 classes, he has UnderArmor doing for MD what Nike did for Oregon. By comparison Minnesota recruiting has ranked in the 40s. MD has recruited better than all but OhSt, Michigan, and Penn St. Minnesota was out matched before the kick off and it was a testament to Fleck that the game was as close as it was.

A loss to Purdue next week, however, will not be the same. While Brohm is a good coach, Purdue doesn’t have a distinct talent advantage over Minnesota. Minnesota should be able to beat Purdue.
 

BarnBurner said:
Coaching, then, means nothing. Game plan, nothing.

Only the teams with better players win.
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No, they matter. This game was an example as we were right in it to the very end.

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