B1G Recruiting Rankings

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It will be interesting to see how the staff approaches recruiting with a full class next year, do they take more chances? Do they recruit more developmental athletes? More or less JUCOs? More in state kids?
 

This is a good class so far, with the potential to be very good. I don't really care what the rankings say.
 

MZBKA said:
Huh? Brewster had some great recruiting classes. Those kids are the seniors now.
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Wow, its like you haven't been alive the last 3 years as most of Brews top recruits either didn't make it on campus, graduated (Jucos), failed out, transferred or just plain quit. His classes were paper tigers.
 

afurry91 said:
I used to think the world of Bill Snyder and thought that we could compete with 80+ ranked recruiting classes like he did.

Then I realized he rode the back of his once in a lifetime quarterback. Now they are pretty lousy.
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Wait, what exactly are you saying about Bill Snyder here?
 



Isn't Urban the one complaining the sky is falling? Thinking he knows a thing or two about quality of recruits
 


afurry91 said:
He's a great coach, but continued success with lower ranked recruiting classes is very difficult to maintain. When Klein graduated, they became average.
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I think it has just as much to do with them always recruiting so many Juco's. A lot of boom or bust type of players. You're right about Klein but remember this isn't the first time Snyder had success.

As for the article and rankings in the OP, I did find it odd that it lists "??????????" for the number of commits. Did their computer break down?

And here is what the write-up says from the bleacher report article (where the rankings came from):

We're forced to wonder exactly how the currently upward trend of Minnesota is going to continue while Jerry Kill's health remains a concern. Everyone certainly wishes Coach Kill the best, but if his health is preventing him from coaching on the sidelines, what does that do to Minnesota's recruiting?

The Golden Gophers haven't been the choice destination for the conference's top recruits for some time now, and based on early reports, it doesn't look like it's going to be in 2014, either.

Minnesota has eight commits thus far for 2014, the most noteworthy being 4-star running back Jeff Jones. Jones holds the distinction of being the top recruit from Minnesota for the class of 2014 and is listed as the No. 9 overall running back nationally (based on 247Sports.com's Composite Rankings).
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Like others have already said, I think part of the reason it is ranked so low is because we have so few commitments (which is not surprising considering how few seniors we have this year).
 

afurry91 said:
He's a great coach, but continued success with lower ranked recruiting classes is very difficult to maintain. When Klein graduated, they became average.
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You are aware that Bill Synder's legacy of winning extends far beyond the last 2 years, right? From 1997-2003, Snyder had 6 11-win seasons in 7 years. From 93-03, he had one team win less than 9 games.
 




It's a Pig Man! said:
FWIW, Ryan Burns is hearing that we are more solid with Jones than we were a month ago.
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That's good, but from his recent interviews with the Gopherhole and the Minnesota Daily, he still seems very likely to choose another school. He always qualifies responses regarding Minnesota with, "If that's where I decide to go."

If we lock up Jones and Rangnow, and we'll have a good recruiting class for the number of scholarships we have.
 

The day one of these websites comes out and gives the Gophers a top grade for their recruiting class, I will keel over from the shock.

This may not be backed up by any statistical data, but my gut tells me a lot of these sites operate on a very superficial level - i.e. "Ohio state always has a good recruiting class, so if recruit A is going to OSU, he must be good. And MN never has a good class, so if recruit B is going to MN, he can't be that good."

Most of these sites simply do not have the resources to actuallly review and rate every HS kid in the country - so they make assumptions based on past performance, and/or tips - or crap they read and/or hear on the internet.

Look - when you're dealing with the elite kids, anyone can tell you that Joe 5-Star is going to be good. But when you get down to the second or third tier of recruits, it's a lot harder to project how these kids will do in college. You have to weigh in factors like strength of competition, coaching, whether a player is playing in a system that fits his skill set, and also whether a player may be a late bloomer. 6 months ago, would anyone here have predicted that Cobb would be the Gophers most effective RB?

This may not be scientific, but I don't give a rat's behind about recruiting rankings. My gut (and experience from following HS FB for 30+ years) tells me that good coaches find ways to win, and bad coaches find ways to lose. I think Kill is a good coach, and I think he'll find a way to win.
 

Think where we'd be if Jordan Lynch had followed Kill to Minnesota as Tony Rice followed Lou Holtz to Notre Dame (he'd have had to sit out a year as a transfer).
 



Oh no we have a terrible recruiting class and we'll never win and we'll leave the cupboard bare for the next coach blah blah blah diamonds in the rough blah blah coach em up blah blah we should recruit more Minnesota kids look at how well they do at D2 schools blah blah blah the coaches are smarter than us blah star ratings matter blah blah no they don't blah offers matter blah blah but are they real offers blah blah blah electronic or hand -timed? Insidious personal attack blah blah responding personal attack blah extended pissing contest blah blah blah senile comment from Dr. Don blah Dpodoll insisting he's right and everyone else is wrong blah blah blah thread hijacked by discussion of AJ Barker's mom's best friend.


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afurry91 said:
I used to think the world of Bill Snyder and thought that we could compete with 80+ ranked recruiting classes like he did.

Then I realized he rode the back of his once in a lifetime quarterback. Now they are pretty lousy.
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He rode one quarterback to twelve Top-20 finishes spread across three decades?

And Klein isn't even the best quarterback he's had at Kansas St.
 

Jeshurun said:
Oh no we have a terrible recruiting class and we'll never win and we'll leave the cupboard bare for the next coach blah blah blah diamonds in the rough blah blah coach em up blah blah we should recruit more Minnesota kids look at how well they do at D2 schools blah blah blah the coaches are smarter than us blah star ratings matter blah blah no they don't blah offers matter blah blah but are they real offers blah blah blah electronic or hand -timed? Insidious personal attack blah blah responding personal attack blah extended pissing contest blah blah blah senile comment from Dr. Don blah Dpodoll insisting he's right and everyone else is wrong blah blah blah thread hijacked by discussion of AJ Barker's mom's best friend.


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And I'm now cross-eyed.
 

Someone better at math than me can try this if they want, but I went back to that article about recruiting rankings v success and quick calculated what this season is looking like.
http://www.footballstudyhall.com/2013/8/19/4635732/college-football-apparent-talent-coaching-effects

Avg scout.com(what they used) star rating 4 year 09-13 running avg
2.37 -15% from avg of 2.79 overall

On paper that would mean the gophers should be -15% from an average team's F+ rating or whatever they use of 214 which would be 182.69
Instead the gophers are currently +5.6% or 225.98
20% better than they should be strictly according to recruiting rankings.
In the article that much of a percentage difference is on par overachieving to Brian Kelly's last season in Cinci, Oregon 07' when they went on a really nice run, Florida in 08' when they won it all, and UConn in 07' when they went 9-4.
Not bad, assuming I didn't mess the calculations up which is very possible. Of course the season isn't over yet either.
 

Jeshurun said:
Oh no we have a terrible recruiting class and we'll never win and we'll leave the cupboard bare for the next coach blah blah blah diamonds in the rough blah blah coach em up blah blah we should recruit more Minnesota kids look at how well they do at D2 schools blah blah blah the coaches are smarter than us blah star ratings matter blah blah no they don't blah offers matter blah blah but are they real offers blah blah blah electronic or hand -timed? Insidious personal attack blah blah responding personal attack blah extended pissing contest blah blah blah senile comment from Dr. Don blah Dpodoll insisting he's right and everyone else is wrong blah blah blah thread hijacked by discussion of AJ Barker's mom's best friend.
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That's it. Time to close down the board. This is a pretty accurate summary of every recruiting thread there ever has been or ever will be.

BTW - re Bill Snyder - was Klein even born when Snyder started having 9, 10, 11-win seasons?
 

I'm trying to not be too consumed with recruiting rankings. Would it be nice to get the four and five star players? Sure. Do you need them to be NC competitors. Yes. Do you need them to be competitive in the Big Ten? To a degree. Some of our best recent players have been way under recruited and under rated. Eric Murray didn't have any other offers.......and as a sophomore........he is going to end up be our defensive leader next year. May even get some nods as an all big ten d-back next year. I'd be surprised if he didn't by his senior year.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Most of these sites simply do not have the resources to actuallly review and rate every HS kid in the country - so they make assumptions based on past performance, and/or tips - or crap they read and/or hear on the internet.

Look - when you're dealing with the elite kids, anyone can tell you that Joe 5-Star is going to be good. But when you get down to the second or third tier of recruits, it's a lot harder to project how these kids will do in college. You have to weigh in factors like strength of competition, coaching, whether a player is playing in a system that fits his skill set, and also whether a player may be a late bloomer. 6 months ago, would anyone here have predicted that Cobb would be the Gophers most effective RB?

This may not be scientific, but I don't give a rat's behind about recruiting rankings. My gut (and experience from following HS FB for 30+ years) tells me that good coaches find ways to win, and bad coaches find ways to lose. I think Kill is a good coach, and I think he'll find a way to win.
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Well said. Top notch talent is easy to identify. High school kids are hard to project, however. Most are still growing and their potential is difficult to assess.
 

MZBKA said:
Huh? Brewster had some great recruiting classes. Those kids are the seniors now.
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Ha. Cuz we start so many "great" seniors right now compared to underclassmen. Nice try.
 

everybody knows my name said:
That's it. Time to close down the board. This is a pretty accurate summary of every recruiting thread there ever has been or ever will be.

BTW - re Bill Snyder - was Klein even born when Snyder started having 9, 10, 11-win seasons?
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Only the recruiting threads? I think that pretty much sums up the history of this whole site. Well, except for stalking planes...
 

All the people who said, "If the Gophers don't get out of last place they'll never be able to compete for a Big Ten title", have been proven wrong. Even if this team gets swamped the next two weeks they won four B10 games Ina a row for the first time since 1973. Everyone gets that there is a correlation between the rankings and on field success. But hopefully we can forget about these doomsday scenarios this offseason.
 

GopherinPhilly said:
Wow, its like you haven't been alive the last 3 years as most of Brews top recruits either didn't make it on campus, graduated (Jucos), failed out, transferred or just plain quit. His classes were paper tigers.
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Best Back to Back Recruiting Classes in Modern Gopher Football History!!
Best Back to Back Recruiting Classes in Modern Gopher Football History!!

I am not making that statement comparing Minnesota to the rest of the country or the Big Ten. I am comparing us to what our history is. Glen Mason's last six classes averaged 2.43 on Rivals. Tim Brewster's three classes 3.0. But they were built
on sand! The 2008 class is recognized as our Gopher best. The 2009 class we pretty much got nothing at all from, other than Michael Carter as a senior and Ra'Shede Hageman, Ed Olson. 2010 is better than 2009 but 2011,2012 and now 2013 are better
than 2010. 2011 and 2012 we had 19 guys rated 3 stars each year. In contrast Mason had classes of 6 and 7 3 star guys. Jerry Kill's 3 classes average close to 2.8 on Rivals, but the best 3 classes of the last 12 years are 2008, 2012 and 2013
based on stars and the eyeball test together. If you go down the list of the players in 2012, every single kid is already either playing or expected to battle for playing time in 2013 on the field. Jerry Kill and his staff can evaluate talent and recruit!

We have never recruited the walk on talent we have these past two seasons which is another significant part of recruiting.
The PWO class in 2013 is a literally a Glen Mason recruiting class!
1 Chad Fahning OL De La Salle 6-7 275
2 Jeff Borchardt WR Wayzata 6-1 190
3 Brian Smith Jr WR Brookfield,WI 6-4 210
4 Michael Conway QB LaCrosse Aquinas
5 Conor Rhoda QB Cretin 6-3 190
6 Nick Hart TE Prior Lake 6-5 220
7 Chandler Wright OG Wayzata 6-3 270
8 Aaron Roundtree DB Eagan
9 Hunter Friesen Mankato
10 Matt Leidner C Lakeville So 6-1 270
and I'm probably missing some guys

All of our 2013 scholarship recruits are rated 3 stars by somebody among Rivals, Scout and ESPN. Many of Brewster's top rated recruits never got to campus, never played or barely played. Jerry Kill's 2012 class is here with PWO and all contributing. I believe 2013 will be a very solid contributing group as well. Therefore we presently have the BEST Back to Back Gopher Recruiting Classes Ever in the pipeline!

(Plus, this was accomplished with an inherited, really screwed up numbers availability situation to recruit from.) And I'm not trying to bash Mason or Brewster. I'm just excited about what we are accomplishing now.


This is what I wrote Feb 6, 2013
 


You get 85 scholarships…if your guys stick to the program, don't quit, transfer or get injured, you should have 17 scholarships a year…17 RS, 17 Freshmen, 17 Sophs, 17 juniors and 17 seniors. As long as they give you more points for more recruits, the programs that have loads of kids not playing 5 years are rewarded with great rankings. The rankings also don't include the PWO program. As Kill is able to redshirt more and more kids and getting better and better PWO's, even without better recruits, we will continue to improve. However, Kill's classes have improved especially at the bottom of each class. It seems we are bringing in solid 3 star recruits even at the bottom of the class which we didn't do before. We were always last in the big ten…but we used to be last by a long shot. Now we are only last because our classes are small and they are small because our guys are sticking with Minnesota. What does Kill have to do to prove that he knows more about recruiting for a football team than any of the analysts? Two of the top 3 quarterbacks in the country the last month are guys he recruited…Lynch and Nelson….what did the analysts say about those guys when they were seniors?
 

Ole said:
I actually think Kill and his coaches are one of those outlying data points in the science of recruit rankings v success. Few are in a positive way, but a few programs/coaches consistently perform much better than their recruit rankings and others just simply find guys other programs miss. I believe Kill is that type of coach, in the mold of a Bill Snyder at KSU, Gary Patterson at TCU, Peterson at BSU, even wisky under fatty ahole the past few years won alot of games with an 08 and 09 class rankings in the 40's. Some programs buck the trend, it appears Kill runs one of those.
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People should check out Tennessee's recruiting rankings over the last 5 years. 2009 was their only winning season in that time (7-6) even though they've had top 25 ranked classes in each of these years. Having the right fit is more important than simply getting players based on the amount of stars and press clippings that the "experts" give them imo.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
Recruiting is such a crap shoot and a game in its own. I was watching the BTN weekly behind the scenes show. Last night was a replay of the one with Hackenburg from PSU and the MSU DB, Darqueze Dennard. Dennard had one offer from a Florida directional school (which was being dropped for the JC player) when the MSU DC (Narduzzi) saw him while attending a game of another player. Narduzzi later saw his film and made an offer. All of a sudden with a couple weeks before signing, South Carolina and others came calling. Dennard started to waiver on his commitment to MSU. They held on to his commitment and the rest is history.


2 Star recruit.

A lot will happen in the next two+ months.
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Interesting to note that Le'Veon Bell was a 2 star on that same class.
 

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