B1G Game 13: Gophers visit Rutgers (2-13-24)

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BigTenGuy said:
Hart, Heyer and GG are not well-suited to transition basketball, but Holloway and Johnson could be. Would like to see more of those two, even some together.
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Athleticism is the issue right now. The women's game has become high scoring with 5 Big Ten teams in the top 20 in scoring, averaging over 80 a game. Teams are running and athletic. Gophers are 9th in the conference at 72ppg.

There are no easy wins in this conference, especially for the Gophers when down their best player. Rutgers just beat Nebraska, who beat Iowa.

We are improving and show spurts of playing well. We don't have much depth and bench scoring at this point.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
Athleticism is the issue right now. The women's game has become high scoring with 5 Big Ten teams in the top 20 in scoring, averaging over 80 a game. Teams are running and athletic. Gophers are 9th in the conference at 72ppg.

There are no easy wins in this conference, especially for the Gophers when down their best player. Rutgers just beat Nebraska, who beat Iowa.

We are improving and show spurts of playing well. We don't have much depth and bench scoring at this point.
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I'm a little shocked that some here seem to want Coach P to pretty much tank the season and try to get people who have obviously shown her every day in practice that they aren't ready or deserving of playing time yet. I'm pretty sure that at her level, she's not gonna just give out playing time for the sake of giving out playing time (like 7th grade hoops) when she's likely stressed in every day in practice that you have to show me you deserve it. Pretty sure she knows, from all the practice time starting in the summer, exactly what her players are capable of. Don't think she's the type to just desperately toss mud up against the wall to see if something sticks.

I think we're starting understand just how important Braun is to this team, whether she lights up the stat sheet or not. Very disappointed that some of the players we really need to take that big step up, haven't been able to do so consistently, but I don't think bagging the rest of the season and treating it like exhibition season or try-outs is the answer either.
 

Chico Gopher said:
I'm a little shocked that some here seem to want Coach P to pretty much tank the season and try to get people who have obviously shown her every day in practice that they aren't ready or deserving of playing time yet. I'm pretty sure that at her level, she's not gonna just give out playing time for the sake of giving out playing time (like 7th grade hoops) when she's likely stressed in every day in practice that you have to show me you deserve it. Pretty sure she knows, from all the practice time starting in the summer, exactly what her players are capable of. Don't think she's the type to just desperately toss mud up against the wall to see if something sticks.

I think we're starting understand just how important Braun is to this team, whether she lights up the stat sheet or not. Very disappointed that some of the players we really need to take that big step up, haven't been able to do so consistently, but I don't think bagging the rest of the season and treating it like exhibition season or try-outs is the answer either.
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I agree. Never understood why people want to through away a season. She plays who she trusts and has shown capability. No fix this year without Braun coming back. Improvement will be seen this off-season and with experience of the kids playing.
 

You Know You Are in Trouble When: you have to play your starters a huge amount of minutes against a team like Rutgers. Heyer, 40 minutes, GG, 39, Battle, 34, Hart, 33, and Sanders, 26. Heyer was very active and productive in the first half but wore down, Hart should play no more than 28 minutes to keep her a physical presence under the basket. GG shouldn't play a whole game but it is hard to give up that 3-point production. You Are In Deep Trouble when you can only play 3 bench players for a total of 28 minutes and get a total of 6 points, 4 rebounds, 0 assists, and 8 fouls.
 

walleye said:
You Know You Are in Trouble When: you have to play your starters a huge amount of minutes against a team like Rutgers. Heyer, 40 minutes, GG, 39, Battle, 34, Hart, 33, and Sanders, 26. Heyer was very active and productive in the first half but wore down, Hart should play no more than 28 minutes to keep her a physical presence under the basket. GG shouldn't play a whole game but it is hard to give up that 3-point production. You Are In Deep Trouble when you can only play 3 bench players for a total of 28 minutes and get a total of 6 points, 4 rebounds, 0 assists, and 8 fouls.
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We have to be winning the 3 second lane violation award this year, right? In all my years watching basketball I have never seen a team get called for this so many times. It does make me laugh when they get called for it and then look confused as to why lol
 


The fact that the players at the end of the bench are not playing now when we desperately need help tells me that they're not ready to compete now and probably won't down the road. As Chico Gopher said, the Coach sees them every day in practice and chooses not to play them. I think the only thing we can hope for now is that the underclassmen who are playing improve, both skill wise and as teammates. At this point, we have two recruits, both guards, and hopefully a healthy Klick joining the team next season. It would not surprise me if one or two spots open up after the season, and the coach is able to add some talent through the transfer portal. We really need more athleticism, speed, and size up front.
 

I know Hart gets a little criticism on this board but I think she played well last night and battled hard. I think Hart and GG made the game at least winnable, need that effort from the whole team in order to be successful. we need Battle playing like she was earlier in the season. I know she was in foul trouble but we still need her to run the point at the end of close games. Will not get assisted shots if she isn’t running the point. And yes we need an experienced PG next season.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
. . . The women's game has become high scoring with 5 Big Ten teams in the top 20 in scoring, averaging over 80 a game. Teams are running and athletic. Gophers are 9th in the conference at 72ppg.
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Will be interesting to watch if this year is the end of an era of sorts in the BIG for high scoring, efficient offenses. In the advanced stats era (2010-24), the two most efficient BIG offenses in conference play are this year’s Iowa and Indiana teams, followed by the 3 preceding Caitlin Clark teams. Next year could look different in the BIG, even with the West Coast additions.

A similar thing played out in the PAC-12 during the Ionescu/Plum years. Since 2010, the 4 most efficient offensive PAC-12 teams are 3 Oregon Ionescu teams and 1 Plum Washington team. None of this year’s PAC-12 teams are close to their level in offensive efficiency. When Ionescu and Plum graduated, things changed for that league. A similar thing could happen next year in the BIG with the exit of Holmes, Clark and the super seniors that are helping to power MSU and PSU (3rd and 4th in offensive efficiency this year).
 

Hart's effort shouldn't be questioned. But she isn't suited for a fast pace. If our opponents push tempo, she seems to get worn down. And if we're not hitting a modicum of 3's, then the defense plays closer to the post and is ready with quicker double teams help when she does get the ball down low. She is best when getting the ball one on one in the post. Half court sets and old school back-to-the basket style of play.
 



BBJones said:
The fact that the players at the end of the bench are not playing now when we desperately need help tells me that they're not ready to compete now and probably won't down the road. As Chico Gopher said, the Coach sees them every day in practice and chooses not to play them. I think the only thing we can hope for now is that the underclassmen who are playing improve, both skill wise and as teammates. At this point, we have two recruits, both guards, and hopefully a healthy Klick joining the team next season. It would not surprise me if one or two spots open up after the season, and the coach is able to add some talent through the transfer portal. We really need more athleticism, speed, and size up front.
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I'm really surprised we haven't seen anything of Zie. I know she is coming off an injury last year too, but I remember seeing some videos from last year summer 3:3 tourney they had, and she had good footwork and a nice shooting touch.
 

BBJones said:
I think Heyer runs the floor pretty well. There have been plenty of times when she's been the first one down the floor. The problem, as I see it, is that the guards dribble too much and hang onto the ball. When that happens as much as it does, people stop running and moving. Why work when you're never rewarded?
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Mal runs the floor pretty dang well.. issue is we hardly get her the ball when she is running down the floor and beating her player down the floor.
 

Chico Gopher said:
I'm a little shocked that some here seem to want Coach P to pretty much tank the season and try to get people who have obviously shown her every day in practice that they aren't ready or deserving of playing time yet. I'm pretty sure that at her level, she's not gonna just give out playing time for the sake of giving out playing time (like 7th grade hoops) when she's likely stressed in every day in practice that you have to show me you deserve it. Pretty sure she knows, from all the practice time starting in the summer, exactly what her players are capable of. Don't think she's the type to just desperately toss mud up against the wall to see if something sticks.

I think we're starting understand just how important Braun is to this team, whether she lights up the stat sheet or not. Very disappointed that some of the players we really need to take that big step up, haven't been able to do so consistently, but I don't think bagging the rest of the season and treating it like exhibition season or try-outs is the answer either.
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Figure out if they can be relied on next year or if that's extra depth spots you have to worry about in portal. Sanders minutes do the team no good for being better next year
 

rowdaboat said:
Figure out if they can be relied on next year or if that's extra depth spots you have to worry about in portal. Sanders minutes do the team no good for being better next year
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Sanders minutes do give Battle some breaks. We don't need her to get injured. And arguably she may learn something by watching another PG with her teammates. Observe what to do better and what not to do at all.
 



rowdaboat said:
Figure out if they can be relied on next year or if that's extra depth spots you have to worry about in portal. Sanders minutes do the team no good for being better next year
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I take it that you are on the side of tank the season, throw mud against the wall and hope some of it might start doing something that it apparently can't do in practice every day.
 

Chico Gopher said:
I take it that you are on the side of tank the season, throw mud against the wall and hope some of it might start doing something that it apparently can't do in practice every day.
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If they can't beat a 1 win team missing their top scorer then yeah there's not much to salvage
 

Tanking the season is a ridiculous concept to even discuss. This isn't the NFL. We don't get a higher draft pick for finishing lower. Quite the opposite.
 


MaxyJR1 said:
Athleticism is the issue right now. The women's game has become high scoring with 5 Big Ten teams in the top 20 in scoring, averaging over 80 a game. Teams are running and athletic. Gophers are 9th in the conference at 72ppg.

There are no easy wins in this conference, especially for the Gophers when down their best player. Rutgers just beat Nebraska, who beat Iowa.

We are improving and show spurts of playing well. We don't have much depth and bench scoring at this point.
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Love the transitive property!!!

I agree our athleticism lacks in a few spots but not others. I would say we only lack athleticism with Hart, GG and not sure about Heyer. We need more 3 point threats. Battle has looked decent but rarely takes them so is not a threat (career 3 point % 0.302, N=13).
 

Ragnor said:
Love the transitive property!!!

I agree our athleticism lacks in a few spots but not others. I would say we only lack athleticism with Hart, GG and not sure about Heyer. We need more 3 point threats. Battle has looked decent but rarely takes them so is not a threat (career 3 point % 0.302, N=13).
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You just listed 60% of our starters as potentially lacking athleticism. We weren't competitive vs ranked opponents this year. We are young and based on others losing players and us getting better, I'm not saying we are all doom and gloom. We have to get much more athletic.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
You just listed 60% of our starters as potentially lacking athleticism. We weren't competitive vs ranked opponents this year. We are young and based on others losing players and us getting better, I'm not saying we are all doom and gloom. We have to get much more athletic.
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I'm not sure we disagree all that much. I just identified 2.5 players that I thought were not very athletic. They may not be very athletic but they are good to very good at the bones of basketball. I think you need some athleticism on a team for matchups with the other teams athletic players but I think it pales in comparison to the person's ability to do the basketball skills people train the most for i.e. shooting accuracy, ball handling, passing and experience. For example, Nia and AJ are supremely athletic but don't have the very good college level skills yet. If the 2.5 players were more athletic that would make them have more potential and that is always good but you don't need to be very athletic to be an excellent BB player, i.e. Scalia and Whalen. I think we are athletic enough but more would be better, I think we are lacking accomplished outside shooters from the point guard position, consistent defensive intensity and decision making and decision making on passing as well as FT shooting. Making free throws or better decision making alone would have won us the Rutgers game and others.

In conclusion, I think more athleticism is an aspiration but it is down the list of things we need the most and I don't know if that would have won us more games where I think these other items would.
 

Ragnor said:
Making free throws or better decision making alone would have won us the Rutgers game and others.
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There were so many awful things in the game to discuss but I am surprised free throws haven't come up more. The Gophers ended up at 8/16, which is dreadful but if I remember right, they were 2/10 at one point (meaning they made their last six, which I guess is something). Anyway, that's shocking, incompetent and controllable.
 

We have a bunch of good young players. What we lack is an Impact Player; i.e., a player that can put the team on her back and/or lift the team when it is really needed; a player with lots of dimensions to her game and can beat you more than one way depending on what is or isn't working. We will have difficulty attracting an Impact Player when we are near the bottom of the Big Ten. That is why every win is important this season in making Minnesota more attractive to high-quality recruits and transfers. The Gophers need to build a stronger bench and eventually be able to land an Impact Player.
 

thatjanelpick said:
There were so many awful things in the game to discuss but I am surprised free throws haven't come up more. The Gophers ended up at 8/16, which is dreadful but if I remember right, they were 2/10 at one point (meaning they made their last six, which I guess is something). Anyway, that's shocking, incompetent and controllable.
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Regarding free throws, Heyer’s struggle at the line this year is beyond perplexing. Last year she was 34/48 (70.8%). This year she is 14/36 (38.9%). That percentage drop is beyond crazy, especially with her 3-point percentage up this year on heavy volume.
 
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walleye said:
We have a bunch of good young players. What we lack is an Impact Player; i.e., a player that can put the team on her back and/or lift the team when it is really needed; a player with lots of dimensions to her game and can beat you more than one way depending on what is or isn't working. We will have difficulty attracting an Impact Player when we are near the bottom of the Big Ten. That is why every win is important this season in making Minnesota more attractive to high-quality recruits and transfers. The Gophers need to build a stronger bench and eventually be able to land an Impact Player.
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MN has had their share of star players in the last few years but they leave the state . Hope Coach P can eventually turn that tide. I would add that we seem to lack leadership with Braun out. Your impact player does not have to be your only leader.
 

thatjanelpick said:
There were so many awful things in the game to discuss but I am surprised free throws haven't come up more. The Gophers ended up at 8/16, which is dreadful but if I remember right, they were 2/10 at one point (meaning they made their last six, which I guess is something). Anyway, that's shocking, incompetent and controllable.
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When you have people like Heyer and Nia hitting well below 50% and I don't know who else may be. This is clearly all psychological given Heyer's excellent 3 point shooting and Nia's dreadful ~20-30%. This is a knock on the sports psychologists in the athletic department.
 

Ragnor said:
When you have people like Heyer and Nia hitting well below 50% and I don't know who else may be. This is clearly all psychological given Heyer's excellent 3 point shooting and Nia's dreadful ~20-30%. This is a knock on the sports psychologists in the athletic department.
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Yeah just looked it up and Heyer is currently shooting 39%. That is absolutely shocking. There's a lot to like about her game but that has to get fixed quick.
 

GringaGopher said:
MN has had their share of star players in the last few years but they leave the state . Hope Coach P can eventually turn that tide. I would add that we seem to lack leadership with Braun out. Your impact player does not have to be your only leader.
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I don't equate Impact Player and Leader. They could be the same but sometimes are not. A Leader is a player who fosters team chemistry, inspires the team with their work ethic, energy, and spirit, encourages teammates, helps teammates adjust to college and basketball, sets good examples, etc. They may not be the "best" player on the team. An Impact Player in my mind is someone who can get hot and make really big plays on offense and/or defense and turn the momentum of a game. They are the player that the other team needs to contain. They can inspire the rest of the team with their plays. I do not know who the Leader is on the Gopher team. It might be Braun or it might not. Braun is the most prolific scorer. I don't think she is an Impact Player but I sure hope she develops into one in the next year or two. I will anger everyone on Gopher Hole by saying Minnesota produces many good players like our Super Sophomores but Minnesota does not produce many Impact Players. Impact Players come along about once every 4-6 years in Minnesota whereas other parts of this country produce them way more frequently. The Gophers have to recruit some blue chip players from other parts of the country and that is hard to do when you are near the bottom of the Big Ten. You can't keep all the good players home either because many kids want to get away, be independent, experience new places, and/or be on a contending team.
 

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