Authority of Coaches Is Absolute No Longer

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Great article, thanks for sharing.

Speaking in general. As the son of a military man I have always found "tough" coaches to be more wimps and bullies than actually tough.

In the military during my dads time, the drill Sargent would berate a subordinate merciless. However; they would always offer to take the stripes off if the subordinate was interested.

Supposedly hard nosed coaches? Not in a million years; they talk the talk but don't come close to walking the walk.
 

How long would a coach last if hethrew down with the players?
 

Sportsfan24 said:
Great article, thanks for sharing.

Speaking in general. As the son of a military man I have always found "tough" coaches to be more wimps and bullies than actually tough.

In the military during my dads time, the drill Sargent would berate a subordinate merciless. However; they would always offer to take the stripes off if the subordinate was interested.

Supposedly hard nosed coaches? Not in a million years; they talk the talk but don't come close to walking the walk.
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I agree...the chickener one is, the bullier he is. The wronger one is, the arguer he is. It goes without saying that it is always the little weenie guy who starts the fights between the big boys. In fact, I like to brag that I was the best fighter in town. I won my last fight by 14 blocks.
 

Sportsfan24 said:
Great article, thanks for sharing.

Speaking in general. As the son of a military man I have always found "tough" coaches to be more wimps and bullies than actually tough.

In the military during my dads time, the drill Sargent would berate a subordinate merciless. However; they would always offer to take the stripes off if the subordinate was interested.

Supposedly hard nosed coaches? Not in a million years; they talk the talk but don't come close to walking the walk.
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+1
 


You play on a winning big time pgm. and think the authority is gone, you have another think coming. Urban and Jerry are the bosses!!
 

Sportsfan24 said:
Great article, thanks for sharing.

Speaking in general. As the son of a military man I have always found "tough" coaches to be more wimps and bullies than actually tough.

In the military during my dads time, the drill Sargent would berate a subordinate merciless. However; they would always offer to take the stripes off if the subordinate was interested.

Supposedly hard nosed coaches? Not in a million years; they talk the talk but don't come close to walking the walk.
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Um, probably better to avoid generalizing people. Some military men also don't walk the walk. Had one drill sergeant who delighted in bullying the weaker recruits of the platoon but was nothing but a sadistic wimp. However, I don't think I ever respected anyone more than Gunny Keyes, the lead drill sergeant, other than my dad. I think you'll find that coaches cover a pretty wide spectrum also.
 

Coach Kill can take the hits. He runs his program the way he sees fit. His way or the highway. Young people need guidance and, at times, tough love. At the end of the day, kids need to realize that most coaches are trying to do what is best for the kid and maintain the integrity of the program.

Has anyone heard a Gopher player rip Coach Kill for his style, other than Barker?
 

Bayfieldgopher said:
Coach Kill can take the hits. He runs his program the way he sees fit. His way or the highway. Young people need guidance and, at times, tough love. At the end of the day, kids need to realize that most coaches are trying to do what is best for the kid and maintain the integrity of the program.

Has anyone heard a Gopher player rip Coach Kill for his style, other than Barker?
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Again speaking in general terms.

How does belittling, bullying and demeaning provide guidance? Answer, it doesn't. It's just the lazy way of leading.
 



Sportsfan24 said:
Again speaking in general terms.

How does belittling, bullying and demeaning provide guidance? Answer, it doesn't. It's just the lazy way of leading.
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My mannnn, we get it. You dont like Kill, how many more times do you have to share this, we get the point bra.

On the other side of the spectrum, telling everyone they are great all the time, is also a easy way to lead. Whats the difference between the two? There isn't. Keep talking up Brew, and keep bashing Kill. Doing great, loving your routine. One of the best bits in town.
 

Bayfieldgopher said:
Coach Kill can take the hits. He runs his program the way he sees fit. His way or the highway. Young people need guidance and, at times, tough love. At the end of the day, kids need to realize that most coaches are trying to do what is best for the kid and maintain the integrity of the program.

Has anyone heard a Gopher player rip Coach Kill for his style, other than Barker?
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Coach Kill and his staff have a track record that speaks for itself. From all we have heard his programs have been clean, very good grades, success on the field, limited off field problems. Always are exceptions and people make mistakes.
 

I think if a coach is bullying for the sake of bullying, it isn't a very good (or tough) course of action. But running a sports program at this level is a tough endeavor. Coach's are faced with a lot of ego on on team, and they need to get all of those egos to buy into the idea that they are supposed to put the team above the individual (the name on the front of the jersey is more important than the one in the back). Sometimes, these players get too big for the britches, and they need a reminder that they aren't special enough that the rules don't apply to them. There is a lot of skill in the room, but that skill is only valuable in as much as it benefits the team, and I think strong shows of authority are the only way for the coach to drive home the point that he decides what is best for the team.
 

bleedsmaroonandgold, in other words, you are indicating that there is no "I" in TEAM, but if you look closely, some of these kids see a "ME".
 



Bayfieldgopher said:
Has anyone heard a Gopher player rip Coach Kill for his style, other than Barker?
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I don't think a player really could speak out against his coach publicly. Barker did because he was leaving and was completely fed up with Kill. It's kind of like how North Koreans probably don't have a whole lot to gain by speaking out against Kim Jong Un. It will hurt the person speaking out a lot more than the person being spoken out against. You probably aren't going to hear many honest evaluations of coaches by their players unless they are positive. If a player has not had a positive experience with his coach, he probably won't say anything, or just lie and say that he thinks his coach is great.

For better or worse, it seems that it is considered unprofessional for one to speak negatively about people one used to work with.
 


bleedsmaroonandgold said:
I think if a coach is bullying for the sake of bullying, it isn't a very good (or tough) course of action. But running a sports program at this level is a tough endeavor. Coach's are faced with a lot of ego on on team, and they need to get all of those egos to buy into the idea that they are supposed to put the team above the individual (the name on the front of the jersey is more important than the one in the back). Sometimes, these players get too big for the britches, and they need a reminder that they aren't special enough that the rules don't apply to them. There is a lot of skill in the room, but that skill is only valuable in as much as it benefits the team, and I think strong shows of authority are the only way for the coach to drive home the point that he decides what is best for the team.
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There are far too many extremely successful coaches who have NEVER verbally abused their players to buy what you are saying. You are advocating just one of many ways to coach a sports team. How many times do you think John Gagliardi yelled at and embarrassed one of his players in front of his teammates in the 60 plus years he coached? How about John Wooden? How many times do you think Bud Grant yelled at a player in all of the time he coached football? Do you thing he ever raised his voice to any of his children when they were growing up? I don't. Coaches verbally abuse players because that is their natural personality and it is too hard for them to figure out another way to do it. They just don't want to put out the effort.
 

victor04 said:
My mannnn, we get it. You dont like Kill, how many more times do you have to share this, we get the point bra.

On the other side of the spectrum, telling everyone they are great all the time, is also a easy way to lead. Whats the difference between the two? There isn't. Keep talking up Brew, and keep bashing Kill. Doing great, loving your routine. One of the best bits in town.
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I have gotten into my share of spats with 24, but I know, not believe, that he is largely correct on his point.

As for your point that 24 is all about bashing Kill, I think that is a total and gross exaggeration.
 

Dean S said:
I have gotten into my share of spats with 24, but I know, not believe, that he is largely correct on his point.

As for your point that 24 is all about bashing Kill, I think that is a total and gross exaggeration.
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Sports Fan 24 is one of the few regular posters in GopherHole who knows Kill personally and has watched him up close and personal for an entire season. Because many of the kool-aid drinkers in GopherHole don't like his message they do what the do best - kill the messenger.
 

Dean S said:
I have gotten into my share of spats with 24, but I know, not believe, that he is largely correct on his point.

As for your point that 24 is all about bashing Kill, I think that is a total and gross exaggeration.
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Thank you Dean S. I read SF24's comments with great interest. He has no reason to dislike Coach Kill, but he has every right to disagree with Coach. Just like anyone and everyone on this board, we all have a right to express our likes and dislikes. SF24 gives personal experience, not just opinion, into his comments. That does NOT mean I agree with him at all times, just that I admire his input into his input.

Is he an expert? NO!! Are you an expert? NO!! Am I an expert? NO!!! Are other GH'ers experts? A RESOUNDING NO!!!.

We all know less than what we wished we knew. ALL of us.
 

24 is a big cry baby because kill didn't go to kim pro day well i can see why.. kim was a decent small d 1 player playing in the big ten. He got beat on every passing play there was last year. Slow couldn't cover my grandma. Dont be mad 24 because your kid was not that good.. just be thankful he fooled some body into giving him a free ride in the big ten. Dont wine because kill is building a program not just playing the seniors because they are seniors and kim had to work hard.. i have seen more hustle on these last to years of gopher teams than i have seen in years. Kill is staying for awhile unless health issues force him to retire.. he is not going anywhere so u better get used it.. kim is not there anymore so u can move on.. he is not NFL material i know it sucks as a dad to have dreams and think your kid is better thanhe was.. its hard to hear.. but dad maybe u can get some couseling to have u get over that fact
 

Go4Broke said:
How many times do you think John Gagliardi yelled at and embarrassed one of his players in front of his teammates in the 60 plus years he coached? How about John Wooden? How many times do you think Bud Grant yelled at a player in all of the time he coached football? Do you thing he ever raised his voice to any of his children when they were growing up? I don't.
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There is no possible way you could know any of this.

Bud Grant - Hired 1956
Gags - 1949
John Wooden - 1946 - Indiana St.

Hell Jerry Kill was born in 1961. How about some contemporary coaches that you can prove don't yell at players.
 

Dr.Don said:
Thank you Dean S. I read SF24's comments with great interest. He has no reason to dislike Coach Kill, but he has every right to disagree with Coach. Just like anyone and everyone on this board, we all have a right to express our likes and dislikes. SF24 gives personal experience, not just opinion, into his comments. That does NOT mean I agree with him at all times, just that I admire his input into his input.

Is he an expert? NO!! Are you an expert? NO!! Am I an expert? NO!!! Are other GH'ers experts? A RESOUNDING NO!!!.

We all know less than what we wished we knew. ALL of us.
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As a matter of fact, I now know more than I ever would have wished to know.
 

Absolute control does not have to mean yelling and belittling, Bud Grant didn't yell and belittle, but you can bet your tail end he was the ABSOLUTE BOSS, ask a few players that didnn't do what he wanted, (Ersal ( sp) Macbee) for one. If Bud was unhappy you probably went elsewhere. Alan Page.

Also if we didnn't have all the hurt feelings and a little more discipline in society we probably wouldn't have all the school shootings because someone's little feelings were hurt.
 



Sportsfan24 said:
Again speaking in general terms.

How does belittling, bullying and demeaning provide guidance? Answer, it doesn't. It's just the lazy way of leading.
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It's all a matter of perspective. Yes, there are different methods of coaching. There have been very successful coaches who were "tough" coaches. (bringing to mind the famous quote about Vince Lombardi from a former player - "He treats us all the same - like dogs!") A lot of people have criticized Bobby Knight, but the vast majority of his former players support him.

Can coaches cross the line? - of course they can. Are some players (and parents) looking for excuses after they didn't have the success they were anticipating? you bet they are.

It's hard to render a verdict unless you know ALL the facts - who said what to whom, and under what circumstances.

But, I will say this - if you are going to play team sports, you need to buy into the team concept. If you are unable or unwilling to buy into the team concept, then maybe you should consider trying an individual sport.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
It's all a matter of perspective. Yes, there are different methods of coaching. There have been very successful coaches who were "tough" coaches. (bringing to mind the famous quote about Vince Lombardi from a former player - "He treats us all the same - like dogs!") A lot of people have criticized Bobby Knight, but the vast majority of his former players support him.

Can coaches cross the line? - of course they can. Are some players (and parents) looking for excuses after they didn't have the success they were anticipating? you bet they are.

It's hard to render a verdict unless you know ALL the facts - who said what to whom, and under what circumstances.

But, I will say this - if you are going to play team sports, you need to buy into the team concept. If you are unable or unwilling to buy into the team concept, then maybe you should consider trying an individual sport.
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Or go to another college football team that your mother's best friend approves of.
 

victor04 said:
My mannnn, we get it. You dont like Kill, how many more times do you have to share this, we get the point bra.

On the other side of the spectrum, telling everyone they are great all the time, is also a easy way to lead. Whats the difference between the two? There isn't. Keep talking up Brew, and keep bashing Kill. Doing great, loving your routine. One of the best bits in town.
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Kill? I couldn't have been any clearer.

My comments were not directed toward Kill. I was speaking in general terms. I figured someone would assume I was talking about Kill so I thought by making a disclaimer I could prevent that assumption...I guess not.

My man if you hadn't noticed, I'm a direct kind a guy. You may not like what I say or do but you will always know where I'm coming from.

If your gonna dis me, please do it for something I actually did.....it won't take long (smile).
 

gopherhoopsguy said:
24 is a big cry baby because kill didn't go to kim pro day well i can see why.. kim was a decent small d 1 player playing in the big ten. He got beat on every passing play there was last year. Slow couldn't cover my grandma. Dont be mad 24 because your kid was not that good.. just be thankful he fooled some body into giving him a free ride in the big ten. Dont wine because kill is building a program not just playing the seniors because they are seniors and kim had to work hard.. i have seen more hustle on these last to years of gopher teams
than i have seen in years. Kill is staying for awhile unless health issues force him to retire.. he is
not going anywhere so u better get used it.. kim is not there anymore so u can move on.. he is not
NFL material i know it sucks as a dad to have dreams and think your kid is better thanhe was.. its
hard to hear.. but dad maybe u can get some couseling to have u get over that fact
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Do you need a hug? Do you somehow think what you wrote bothers me?

Did it make you feel good to write that? If so you should write some more because I'm all for making ones self feel good. In fact I'm sure you were the result of the one time your father didn't resort to making himself feel good and I'm certain he still regrets it.:D
 

Sportsfan24 said:
Again speaking in general terms.

How does belittling, bullying and demeaning provide guidance? Answer, it doesn't. It's just the lazy way of leading.
Click to expand...

I completely agree. Great coaches don't belittle players. They know you're expectations and there's a time and a place for reprimanding a player. Some coaches know how, some don't. And it can change the make-up of your team for better or worse if you cross the line too many times.
 

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