Athan visiting Rutgers

What do you think his record would be if Rutgers played in the west. Also, I'd think they'd be worse if he wasn't there.

Some just like to argue, I guess.
He's 3-9 against the West since his return to Rutgers. An identical win % to what he has put up overall.

Again, I think Schiano is a better coach than he gets credit for, but there's not really much evidence that his coaching is more "competent" than our staff's.

Our guys beat his 31-0 last year BTW.
 

What do you think his record would be if Rutgers played in the west. Also, I'd think they'd be worse if he wasn't there.

Some just like to argue, I guess.
Well they're 9-15 in games not against Penn St, Ohio St, and Michigan. Somehow that translates to competent coaching. Fleck was 17-12 against teams not Penn St, Ohio St, and Michigan in the last 4 years. And then that translates to incompetent coaching apparently. The only logical response to your take is that you consider a coach that wins less more competent.

It's a message board. You stated your opinion, I stated mine. Your whole argument makes little sense.
 

Well they're 9-15 in games not against Penn St, Ohio St, and Michigan. Somehow that translates to competent coaching. Fleck was 17-12 against teams not Penn St, Ohio St, and Michigan in the last 4 years. And then that translates to incompetent coaching apparently. The only logical response to your take is that you consider a coach that wins less more competent.

It's a message board. You stated your opinion, I stated mine. Your whole argument makes little sense.
It is really strange when people make the west vs east argument all the time but conveniently forget the fact the worst two football programs in the conference are Indiana and Rutgers. Indiana is the team fleck has played the least.

Maryland, Indiana, Michigan state, and Rutgers don’t dominate the west. Just because Ohio state, Michigan, and Penn state are better than Wisconsin, Iowa, and Purdue doesn’t mean Rutgers is better than Illinois.

Kind of like just because Georgia is better than Penn state it doesn’t mean Mississippi State is better than Illinois



What is flecks record vs the east?
2 games under .500
Teams played in the East
5 - Maryland (2-3)
3 - Michigan (0-3)
3 - Ohio state (0-3)
3- Michigan state (2-1)
2 - Penn state (1-1)
2 - Indiana (2-0)
2 - Rutgers (2-0)

If you played all 7 teams equally and applied the winning %
Each opponent would be 1/7 - or 2.86 games.
The implied record would be 10.21-9.79

The implied winning % of the east if playing all 7 equally (which will be the case in the new big ten) actually will raise the winning percentage from 45% against the east to 51%

Vs the west?
1 game over .500
51%

The new schedule means fewer games against Michigan, Maryland, Michigan State and Ohio state than we have been playing #shock

The new schedule means more games against Penn State, Rutgers, and Indiana.
.
 
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Well they're 9-15 in games not against Penn St, Ohio St, and Michigan. Somehow that translates to competent coaching. Fleck was 17-12 against teams not Penn St, Ohio St, and Michigan in the last 4 years. And then that translates to incompetent coaching apparently. The only logical response to your take is that you consider a coach that wins less more competent.

It's a message board. You stated your opinion, I stated mine. Your whole argument makes little sense.
I think Fleck has better players that get him to a better win total than Rutgers. Maybe you disagree there? I just don't think Fleck knows much about the X's and O's compared to Schiano.

Hypothetically, if the Gophers and Rutgers traded rosters, do you think Schiano would get more out of our roster or do you think Fleck would get more out of theirs?

Hope the question doesn't come off as argumentative - you've been civil in the discussion and I'm trying to be as well. Or maybe we just agree to disagree and we don't turn this into another Gopherhole thread that goes on for pages with just a handful of posters going back and forth, lol.
 

I think Fleck has better players that get him to a better win total than Rutgers. Maybe you disagree there? I just don't think Fleck knows much about the X's and O's compared to Schiano.

Hypothetically, if the Gophers and Rutgers traded rosters, do you think Schiano would get more out of our roster or do you think Fleck would get more out of theirs?

Hope the question doesn't come off as argumentative - you've been civil in the discussion and I'm trying to be as well. Or maybe we just agree to disagree and we don't turn this into another Gopherhole thread that goes on for pages with just a handful of posters going back and forth, lol.
I guess the difference is I believe recruiting and building the roster is a huge part of what makes a coach good/not good. I don't think anyone is arguing Fleck is a better X's and O's guy. He definitely isn't. But being a better X's and O's guy doesn't automatically make someone a better coach.
 


Well, what does make you a good head coach, if you’re not calling the plays on either side??
 

I guess the difference is I believe recruiting and building the roster is a huge part of what makes a coach good/not good. I don't think anyone is arguing Fleck is a better X's and O's guy. He definitely isn't. But being a better X's and O's guy doesn't automatically make someone a better coach.
Thanks for the clarification. I agree in that recruiting and roster building is part of being a good coach. For example, I believe Saban knows the X's and O's well, but he also builds/recruits very well too. Claeys knew the X's and O's well but would have been terrible as a head coach, as he couldn't get recruits.

That being said, my comment about Athan getting better coaching at Rutgers is directed at the X's and O's part of it, not the recruiting part. I guess I should have made that more obvious maybe?
 

Thanks for the clarification. I agree in that recruiting and roster building is part of being a good coach. For example, I believe Saban knows the X's and O's well, but he also builds/recruits very well too. Claeys knew the X's and O's well but would have been terrible as a head coach, as he couldn't get recruits.

That being said, my comment about Athan getting better coaching at Rutgers is directed at the X's and O's part of it, not the recruiting part. I guess I should have made that more obvious maybe?
That makes more sense. Thanks for the clarification.
 

Agreed.

The flashes of brilliance were there. That long TD throw against Michigan, for example.

Just so maddeningly few and far between.
Among those very high on AK as a freshman was P.J. Fleck, who elected to keep starting him late last season after Morgan was healthy and ready to play.
 



We can’t know for sure without peering into a parallel universe where KC stayed on.

In that universe, I think there’s a great chance that AK continued in the upward direction that was displayed in the Wisc game.


I think GHj can be and probably is a fine offensive playcaller.

I’m not sold on him as a QB coach and a developer of the position.

I am not either...but I don't think he is why AK struggled either. I think AK is one of those guys that if he plays in 2-3 games will probably have a decent run, but after that he falls off a cliff. There are tons of them out there...the NFL used to keep those guys around until their 40s because they could backup for any team.

If AK has a lot of time with KC he might be able to fix the issues he has on the physical end (like his incessant need to sidearm the ball) but I am not sure he will ever have it on the mental end. That is part of what worked in the Nebraska game and the Wisconsin game...he was just sort of chucking it around because he had zero to lose. (and the players enjoyed the change of pace from Morgan) The problem is though unless you are someone like Bret Favre that is going to catch up to you real quick as coaches start to get lots of tape on you. Roll your coverage to the main threat and coverage the outlet and he doesn't have the arm or patience to go through progressions and make the tougher throws. Put a little pressure on him and the ball is as likely to end up in the dirt as it is in the hands of the target.

I am not bagging AK, I was hoping he would be the future. I wasn't expecting a great year this year, I was hoping to see a guy who was ready to take the reigns. He would probably make mistakes but they were the mistakes you expect from a guy starting for the first time. The idea would be by the end he looked better than he did in the beginning getting closer to what we saw last year in relief. That just wasn't happening and it was disappointing we didn't have anyone as a backup who we could trust to truly take the reigns for a game and spell him to take the pressure off.

I wish him nothing but success wherever he finishes up.
 

the Rutgers talk made me curious, so I took a look at Rutgers' football history.

Rutgers had some national prominence in the late 50's and early 60's, winning 3 championships in the Middle Atlantic Conference and posting 2 top-20 national finishes.

most of the 60's and early 70's were up and down.
in the mid-70's to early 80's, Rutgers had some good years under coach Frank Burns (insert M.A.S.H. joke here). 7 straight winning seasons including 11-0 in '76 with a #17 national ranking.

then a number of down years in the 80's and 90's.

Schiano's 1st stint from 2001-2011 saw 6 winning seasons including 11-2 in 2006 and a #12 national ranking.

Rutgers had 2 winning seasons under coach Kyle Flood including a Big East Conf. title in 2012, but starting in 2015, it's been one .500 season and 8 losing seasons.

Schiano's career record at Rutgers: 86-95 overall; 37-74 in conference (Big East & B1G). 6 winning seasons out of 15 with one 6-6 season. best season 11-2, also two 9-4 seasons. 5-2 in bowl games with a game pending in the Pinstripe Bowl.
 

I think Fleck has better players that get him to a better win total than Rutgers. Maybe you disagree there? I just don't think Fleck knows much about the X's and O's compared to Schiano.

Hypothetically, if the Gophers and Rutgers traded rosters, do you think Schiano would get more out of our roster or do you think Fleck would get more out of theirs?

Hope the question doesn't come off as argumentative - you've been civil in the discussion and I'm trying to be as well. Or maybe we just agree to disagree and we don't turn this into another Gopherhole thread that goes on for pages with just a handful of posters going back and forth, lol.

I think we would end up about the same. I think Schiano would probably have won a couple more Iowa games because he would go for the jugular (no pun intended) but I also think he would have lost some of the games we won so the record would offset. I think fans would have been very hit or miss with him...happy with the rivalry wins but annoyed at the very easy to see ceiling. I also doubt we play or beat Auburn.

PJ at Rutgers would be interesting because I think he would be able to have carte blanche there just like here. He also would probably be safe there when there is divisions because no one expects Rutgers to beat tOSU or Michigan so if he can find a way to upset Penn State once or twice he could do alright.

I don't think either are great coaches...
 

Schiano probably has a higher ceiling as an Xs and Os coach. He has a WAY bigger job to rebuild Rutgers after that many losing seasons. Fleck did not have to do a complete rebuild, as much as he says he did. There were quite a few winning seasons and bowl bids prior to Fleck. The 5 years prior there were no less than 6 wins per season. Not a bad floor to start from. You can argue the roster for that specific year “zero” but I’m talking about the trend. There was also a new stadium that was only several years old.

Hence I’ll give Schiano a couple years in the new Big Ten before writing him off. He has won 3-4-5-6 games which is a steady trend.
 



I prefer a coach that doesn't try to downplay a nearly deadly MRSA outbreak in a locker room.
 

I am not either...but I don't think he is why AK struggled either. I think AK is one of those guys that if he plays in 2-3 games will probably have a decent run, but after that he falls off a cliff. There are tons of them out there...the NFL used to keep those guys around until their 40s because they could backup for any team.

If AK has a lot of time with KC he might be able to fix the issues he has on the physical end (like his incessant need to sidearm the ball) but I am not sure he will ever have it on the mental end. That is part of what worked in the Nebraska game and the Wisconsin game...he was just sort of chucking it around because he had zero to lose. (and the players enjoyed the change of pace from Morgan) The problem is though unless you are someone like Bret Favre that is going to catch up to you real quick as coaches start to get lots of tape on you. Roll your coverage to the main threat and coverage the outlet and he doesn't have the arm or patience to go through progressions and make the tougher throws. Put a little pressure on him and the ball is as likely to end up in the dirt as it is in the hands of the target.

I am not bagging AK, I was hoping he would be the future. I wasn't expecting a great year this year, I was hoping to see a guy who was ready to take the reigns. He would probably make mistakes but they were the mistakes you expect from a guy starting for the first time. The idea would be by the end he looked better than he did in the beginning getting closer to what we saw last year in relief. That just wasn't happening and it was disappointing we didn't have anyone as a backup who we could trust to truly take the reigns for a game and spell him to take the pressure off.

I wish him nothing but success wherever he finishes up.
Even if AK does well at Rutgers, it's not necessarily better coaching. Maybe he just needed more time to develop. A lot of quarterbacks just take time even at the NFL level. It's the most important and complex position in all of sports. Unfortunately, he decided to take his development elsewhere. That is not surprising in the time of the portal and NIL and I'm glad he has the opportunity.

Rutgers just extended Greg Schiano because he's the only coach that has been able to make them anything but terrible. Now, we'll see if he can take them to the next level. I hope he succeeds, but it won't be easy, just like it isn't easy here. I like all the teams in the B1G to do well, just the Gophers more than others.
 


Interesting. I see MN @ Piscataway Nov 9 2024. Athan starting for KC versus Fleck adds a lot of intrigue. Please make this happen.
 


Interesting. I see MN @ Piscataway Nov 9 2024. Athan starting for KC versus Fleck adds a lot of intrigue. Please make this happen.
I don’t think The backup QB makes a good storyline

But PJ vs two coordinators that used to work for him with Pj having experience behind Schiano is interesting
 

I don’t think The backup QB makes a good storyline

But PJ vs two coordinators that used to work for him with Pj having experience behind Schiano is interesting

Starter is? Wimsatt? I don’t follow Rutgers but he competed with Athan all season for top 5 worst statistical performances. Maybe they are hosting him just to shake the cage.
 

Starter is? Wimsatt? I don’t follow Rutgers but he competed with Athan all season for top 5 worst statistical performances. Maybe they are hosting him just to shake the cage.
Wimsatt is no worse than him
So I would guess Athan isn’t being promised day 1 starter, though it may be an open competition
 




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