AT WHAT POINT DO YOU SAY ENOUGH IS ENOUGH

Donate To GopherHole
GopherWeatherGuy said:
They almost won at Michigan last year.

As for those complaining about assistant coaches, would you rather be paying ~3-4 million per year for Ciarrocca and Rossi? Their teams are sitting a combined 1-9 in the B1G.
Click to expand...
My son attends Arkansas. They sell a shirt on Dixon Street that reads:

We almost always, almost always win. Maybe we need one of those, too. Show up for even part of the 1st half, we probably would have won that game.
 

caliGopher said:
Offensively Mason's teams were the best since the 80's, but had issues on Defense.

Defensively, Kill/Claeys teams were the best since the 80's, but the offense was limited by coaching and recruiting.

As a whole, Fleck's teams have had better parity between the offense and defense, but neither side has been the best of during the era.

Fleck Fun Facts
(note, this includes the 2020 season in win totals, but I did not include the loss to Michigan as a loss to a ranked team since the rankings were pointless that season). If you want to look at this sans 2020, deduct 3 wins and 4 losses from his non ranked totals:

Fleck has a higher winning percentage against ranked B1G opponents through Saturday's game standing at 27% (6 wins - the most of any coach since Holtz - in 22 tries)

Fleck - 27% - (6 wins, 23 games)
Gutekunst - 20% (3,15)
Kill - 15% (2, 13)
Mason - 9% (3, 32)
Brewster - 9% (1,11)
Claeys - 0% (0,5)
Wacker - 0% (0,13)

Of note here - 41% of Fleck's games against ranked opponents have come in the last 2+ seasons (with at least one remaining in Oregon not included in these numbers).

Fleck also owns the worst winning percentage against non-ranked B1G opponents of coaches during that period not names Wacker or Brewster

Gutekunst - 82% (27 wins, 33 games)
Claeys - 67% (6, 9)
Kill - 62% (13, 21)
Mason - 60% (29, 48)
Fleck - 56% (31, 55)
Brewster - 33% (7, 21)
Wacker - 30% (8, 27)

Fleck also owns the fewest percentage of games against ranked opponents during his tenure in the B1G:

Mason - 40% of games against ranked opponents (32)
Kill - 38% (13)
Claeys including 2015 as HC - 36% (5)
Brewster - 33% (11)
Wacker - 33% (13)
Gutekunst - 31% (15)
Fleck - 29.5% (23)

It's important to remember that Fleck also has coached in one more game per season in the B1G than the other coaches (Clayes coached in 9 his one full season as HC), which helps explain the chances he coached against fewer ranked teams.

It's also important to note that 7 of Fleck's 9 seasons were coached in the west, which featured programs whose best teams not named Minnesota were all weaker (some weaker than others) than they had been, at least part of the time, with the execption of Northwestern who has fluctuated pretty wildly over the years. Purdue during Fleck's tenure was not the Drew Brees/Joe Tiller Era Purdue, for example. Iowa was pretty consistent from Mid Mason's term through today, although their offense during Fleck's tenure has reanged beteween brutal and pedestrian but hasn't really impacted their overall record as much as say WIsconsin's decline. One other outlier in the last season of the West, Illinois was a different team than during most of the previous era (save the one great season when they won the B1G back when Mason was coaching).

So some good, Some bad, but hard to say enough is enough. Also hard to say, the best it's been in forever.

EDIT: PS, look into the facts behind the cheating scandal in Basketball under Haskins. While it was wrong, unequivocally, the scandal wasn't how we got kids into school or preferential treatment for the the stars.
Click to expand...

Great data. The Gutekunst data seems a bit surprising. It makes the Wacker hire look even worse.
 

Panthadad2 said:
Great data. The Gutekunst data seems a bit surprising. It makes the Wacker hire look even worse.
Click to expand...
It was such a different time in College Football.

This isn't based on data, but Gutey benefited from Holtz' recruiting and having #39 in the backfield.

His results, as well as recruiting declined year over year. He benefited from scheduling breaks, but had a good team, but as his tenure went on, they were in obvious decline (as seen from the student section).
 

Yes Gopher Mac you should move on. Maybe pick OSU football and Duke basketball?
 




Gopher Mac said:
I have been a fan for 60 years. Is it time to move on? I have moved on from the Vikings. I remember the Chuck Forman days and I don't waste my Sunday's anymore. Is it time to also start enjoy my Saturdays?
Click to expand...

But the Vikings of the Chuck Forman (sic) days were a lot like the Vikings of the decades since. Consistently good but never champions. Eventually they will win the Super Bowl. They are by far the best NFL franchise to have not won it.

Gopher football is frustrating but It's also only 12 Saturdays (actually 8-9 Saturdays and a couple weeknight evenings). An average of 7-8 of those days will turn out as wins and have for a long time. It's not like getting ultra-deep into a crappy baseball team and watching them lose 90 times a year forever.

I would argue that the only real problem with being a Gopher football fan is not "enough is enough" but rather "there will likely never be enough" in terms of resource$, especially in the new era of openly paying players. It's the one team I cheer for that will probably never win a championship again unless something major changes.
 

Go Gophs said:
No, just mean the culture at the U is woke "intellectuals". College athletes don't care about that kind of stuff. In fact, I guarantee that culture plus the school in the middle of a large decaying city turns most of them off.
Click to expand...
It's a fucking university. What do you expect besides intellectuals? Alabama has intellectuals. So does Georgia, Ohio State, and every other school winning football championships.

Intellectuals are perhaps Minnesota's best hope for a football championship, in that they can maybe become ultra-wealthy and give us the money to compete at that level.

I assure you we're not losing young, primarily Black men between 18-23 due to the tropes you swallow every day from the far-right angry old white guy media complex.

If being a red state school in the middle of nowhere was the key, Purdue would be battling Nebraska for Big Ten titles.
 

Panthadad2 said:
Rutgers' offense (KC) is decent but the defense might be the BG10's worst. Regarding MSU, I don't know what happened to Rossi. Maybe his defenses at Minnesota were overrated by relying on a ball control offense (which was essentially Mo Ibrahim)?

I don't know if Fleck would need to pay top dollar for proven coordinators from a lower level. What I do know is that the Gophers looked unprepared against every FBS opponent this year except Nebraska.
Click to expand...

How much of it is a lack of preparation or a lack of execution by a young team? Or is it both? No amount of preparation can make up for a lack of execution. Lindsey had his worst game by far and outside of one game, the punter has been terrible too.

It has been a very up and down year and they are young so it shouldn't be surprising. How many people would have been surprised by 5-3 at the beginning of the year at this point? I don't think many.

The disappointments have been Cal and Iowa. Win this week and they are still 6-3 and bowl eligible. They are still setup for a strong finish, and will likely return most of the team next season.
 



I guess I should have said Woke Liberals. Of course Universities are run by intellectuals. The ones run like businesses with an eye on their athletic programs as drivers of revenue, etc generally do much better...


fmlizard said:
It's a fucking university. What do you expect besides intellectuals? Alabama has intellectuals. So does Georgia, Ohio State, and every other school winning football championships.

Intellectuals are perhaps Minnesota's best hope for a football championship, in that they can maybe become ultra-wealthy and give us the money to compete at that level.

I assure you we're not losing young, primarily Black men between 18-23 due to the tropes you swallow every day from the far-right angry old white guy media complex.

If being a red state school in the middle of nowhere was the key, Purdue would be battling Nebraska for Big Ten titles.
Click to expand...
Purdue is extremely dominant in Basketball...

Also do some research and tell me which football programs have been the most dominant for the last 30 years and see where they come from/are located...
 

fmlizard said:
Intellectuals are perhaps Minnesota's best hope for a football championship, in that they can maybe become ultra-wealthy and give us the money to compete at that level.
Click to expand...
Where are they then? Or why haven't they ever donated and helped out the athletic program?

They don't care about athletics that's why. It's the culture...
 

Gopherchase said:
Probably true, which unfortunately gives PJ a free ride to just continue doing things the way he’s doing them with his coaching hires and focus or lack there of on game planning and game day coaching improvements. Part of his floor includes not even trying to win against Ohio State and Michigan and probably Oregon and then an absolute abysmal effort like Saturday being accepted by some folks cause it could be worse. Pretty good gig.
Click to expand...
Nobody associated with the program (players, coaches, fans, administration)....is ok with what happened on Saturday against Iowa.....nobody. Fleck said it was unacceptable at half time and he led off with that again at the start of his press conference today.

But that doesn't mean you blow everything up after an abysmal effort. Part of the reason that Saturday was so shocking is because we rarely get blown out like that these days.

It annoys the crap out of me when fans act like it means more to them then the people in the complex. Fleck isn't looking for a free ride, he wants to win every game the same way all the players and coaches want to win every game.
 

fmlizard said:
It's a fucking university. What do you expect besides intellectuals? Alabama has intellectuals. So does Georgia, Ohio State, and every other school winning football championships.

Intellectuals are perhaps Minnesota's best hope for a football championship, in that they can maybe become ultra-wealthy and give us the money to compete at that level.

I assure you we're not losing young, primarily Black men between 18-23 due to the tropes you swallow every day from the far-right angry old white guy media complex.

If being a red state school in the middle of nowhere was the key, Purdue would be battling Nebraska for Big Ten titles.
Click to expand...
Madison WI votes ~90% blue. Doesn't seem to have effected Badger football much. Hiring the wrong coach did.
 



GopherWeatherGuy said:
How much of it is a lack of preparation or a lack of execution by a young team? Or is it both? No amount of preparation can make up for a lack of execution. Lindsey had his worst game by far and outside of one game, the punter has been terrible too.

It has been a very up and down year and they are young so it shouldn't be surprising. How many people would have been surprised by 5-3 at the beginning of the year at this point? I don't think many.

The disappointments have been Cal and Iowa. Win this week and they are still 6-3 and bowl eligible. They are still setup for a strong finish, and will likely return most of the team next season.
Click to expand...
Well said. I noted in another thread that the Iowa game was one of the first times this year where Drake has played like a freshman. To a certain degree we have been spoiled by how polished he has looked considering how little actual experience he has.
 

Go Gophs said:
No, just mean the culture at the U is woke "intellectuals". College athletes don't care about that kind of stuff. In fact, I guarantee that culture plus the school in the middle of a large decaying city turns most of them off.
Click to expand...
Using the term "woke" and claiming that Minneapolis is a decaying shit hole tells me all I need to know about you and shows what little you actually know about the U. Take your political ramblings to the off topic board,
 


Go Gophs said:
No, just mean the culture at the U is woke "intellectuals". College athletes don't care about that kind of stuff. In fact, I guarantee that culture plus the school in the middle of a large decaying city turns most of them off.
Click to expand...
That is funny!!! The last time the Gophers won the national championship had a black quarterback and one of the greatest college player of all time named Bobby Bell. Only reason we were able to recuit these players were because white colleges down south would not recuit them because of the color of their skin. Then those southern schools decided if they want to compete with us they better get as you say woke and recuit black athletes.
 

I think this question is asked at some point almost every year....sometimes by me. I'm in my late 50's now and after a lot of the Gopher nonsense I've witnessed through the years, I'm still here. I may give up on the rest of college football, but I don't think I'll stop rooting for the Gophers.
 


howeda7 said:
Madison WI votes ~90% blue. Doesn't seem to have effected Badger football much. Hiring the wrong coach did.
Click to expand...
Ugh, I hate to further any political discussion, but there is a difference between how the residents of a city vote and how the admin of a University in that city runs an athletic department, especially in terms of football.

We may be like Madison in terms of how our population votes, but they generally seem to run their athletic departments like the Alabama's and such, trying to win. We seem to accept mediocrity and to be happy with no scandals.

Sorry if this goes political. I tried to offer an idea while avoiding politics as much as I could.
 

GopherTheJugular said:
Ugh, I hate to further any political discussion, but there is a difference between how the residents of a city vote and how the admin of a University in that city runs an athletic department, especially in terms of football.

We may be like Madison in terms of how our population votes, but they generally seem to run their athletic departments like the Alabama's and such, trying to win. We seem to accept mediocrity and to be happy with no scandals.

Sorry if this goes political. I tried to offer an idea while avoiding politics as much as I could.
Click to expand...
I agree. I just think the "The U doesn't care about winning" thing is over-blown. Unless you have some evidence that the U President/Regents are handcuffing Mark Coyle in some way, that's not the reason Wisconsin has been better than us.

Sure, they probably wouldn't approve paying PJ's $26 million buyout, but that's for financial reasons and in any event, firing him isn't the right move.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
How much of it is a lack of preparation or a lack of execution by a young team? Or is it both? No amount of preparation can make up for a lack of execution. Lindsey had his worst game by far and outside of one game, the punter has been terrible too.

It has been a very up and down year and they are young so it shouldn't be surprising. How many people would have been surprised by 5-3 at the beginning of the year at this point? I don't think many.

The disappointments have been Cal and Iowa. Win this week and they are still 6-3 and bowl eligible. They are still setup for a strong finish, and will likely return most of the team next season.
Click to expand...

To me, lack of preparation and lack of execution are tightly related.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Nobody associated with the program (players, coaches, fans, administration)....is ok with what happened on Saturday against Iowa.....nobody. Fleck said it was unacceptable at half time and he led off with that again at the start of his press conference today.

But that doesn't mean you blow everything up after an abysmal effort. Part of the reason that Saturday was so shocking is because we rarely get blown out like that these days.

It annoys the crap out of me when fans act like it means more to them then the people in the complex. Fleck isn't looking for a free ride, he wants to win every game the same way all the players and coaches want to win every game.
Click to expand...
I’m not even talking about blowing anything up. I’m just talking about the fact that PJ probably has less pressure here than any other P4 coach in America. His A.D. is his Bobo and folks kind of shrug off really bad efforts as c’est la vie.
 

howeda7 said:
I agree. I just think the "The U doesn't care about winning" thing is over-blown. Unless you have some evidence that the U President/Regents are handcuffing Mark Coyle in some way, that's not the reason Wisconsin has been better than us.

Sure, they probably wouldn't approve paying PJ's $26 million buyout, but that's for financial reasons and in any event, firing him isn't the right move.
Click to expand...
And a lot of time, those buyouts are funded by boosters.

I'd love it if the U was football crazy enough to fire a coach and pay a $55 million buyout mid season like LSU just did. But they aren't. And to be fair, most schools aren't like that either.
 

Gopherchase said:
I’m not even talking about blowing anything up. I’m just talking about the fact that PJ probably has less pressure here than any other P4 coach in America. His A.D. is his Bobo and folks kind of shrug off really bad efforts as c’est la vie.
Click to expand...
There is definitely less external pressure here then the more football crazed areas.

But that still doesn't mean anyone is ok with or not bothered by the loss.
 



disco said:
And a lot of time, those buyouts are funded by boosters.

I'd love it if the U was football crazy enough to fire a coach and pay a $55 million buyout mid season like LSU just did. But they aren't. And to be fair, most schools aren't like that either.
Click to expand...
I'd like to know what % of these reported buyouts ever get paid out. James Franklin is going to get another job. Penn State won't pay $55 million. He might sit for year and collect $12 million of it or something. Or they will negotiate some partial settlement. Same for Brian Kelly etc.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
As for those complaining about assistant coaches, would you rather be paying ~3-4 million per year for Ciarrocca and Rossi?
Click to expand...

As you know, we seldom agree on much but that is a very good point. I think our defensive coordinator right now is pretty good. Wouldn't mind getting someone different for the offensive side but maybe we're better off paying the extra money for better linemen.
 


You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom