At 3-1, are the Gophers good, does the B1G stink, or is it a little of both?

What’s behind Gopher 3-1 start?

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Otis

Otis

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Standings:

Wisconsin 3-0
Purdue. 3-1
Minnesota 3-1
Indiana. 3-1
Illinois. 2-1
NU. 2-1
PSU. 2-2
Nebraska. 2-2
OSU. 2-2
Michigan. 1-3
Iowa. 1-3
Maryland. 1-3
MSU. 1-3
Rutgers. 0-3

Purdue, Wisconsin, Illinois and Indiana are playing close to their expectations. Same could be said for Northwestern and OSU. Then there are the head scratchers of MSU, Maryland and Rutgers all of which were predicted to be in the top 9 teams of the conference!

I just haven’t seen very much good basketball in the league. Feels like Purdue and a crap shoot as to order of finish behind them.

The Gophers, are playing much better and are in the minority of teams playing true team basketball! No hero ball here folks. They may have won those last couple games by double figures if they could make 75% free throws. I mean, “hack a Payne” is an excellent option in a close game. But the guard play is immensely better! Johnson could save himself and prove to be a good hire after all.

However, I feel the Gophers have risen and the B1G as a whole has fallen. Right now the Gophers are a fringe bubble team at best.
 

The league is down, our talent is up, we had a terrible non con schedule, and we start the season with several beatable teams in the league.

I'm enjoying the wins no matter what the scenario, but am not willing to bet the farm that the program has turned the corner. I hope so, but more data is needed. Turing the corner starts with winning the games we should, and it looks like we are close to that.

Worst case scenario is that we finish with a record that typically gets in the tournament, but get left out because they didn't challenge themselves in the preseason.
 

More than anything.....the Gophers are playing much.....much better.

And I think it's less that the Big Ten "stinks" and more that the Big Ten was unusually deep the past couple of seasons. There were a few not traditionally good BT teams that had a lot of upperclassmen leading their squads. It was always going to revert back to the mean.
 

I wouldn't say that we a good team(we might get there), we are an above avg CBB team at this point. The B1G is down, and given our B1G schedule, makes it probably the easiest B1G schedule we've had, maybe ever.

Gonna need to probably get to 23 wins to make the tournament. Which I think is achievable, but we need to get more quality wins.
 

The next four games will tell us a lot about the team.
@Indiana
Iowa
@MSU
Wisconsin

Two teams near the top of the standings, a team ranked in the top ten in preseason and our buddies from Iowa.

3-1, 2-2 or even 1-3 with close losses will prove they belong.
 


Otis said:
Standings:

Wisconsin 3-0
Purdue. 3-1
Minnesota 3-1
Indiana. 3-1
Illinois. 2-1
NU. 2-1
PSU. 2-2
Nebraska. 2-2
OSU. 2-2
Michigan. 1-3
Iowa. 1-3
Maryland. 1-3
MSU. 1-3
Rutgers. 0-3

Purdue, Wisconsin, Illinois and Indiana are playing close to their expectations. Same could be said for Northwestern and OSU. Then there are the head scratchers of MSU, Maryland and Rutgers all of which were predicted to be in the top 9 teams of the conference!

I just haven’t seen very much good basketball in the league. Feels like Purdue and a crap shoot as to order of finish behind them.

The Gophers, are playing much better and are in the minority of teams playing true team basketball! No hero ball here folks. They may have won those last couple games by double figures if they could make 75% free throws. I mean, “hack a Payne” is an excellent option in a close game. But the guard play is immensely better! Johnson could save himself and prove to be a good hire after all.

However, I feel the Gophers have risen and the B1G as a whole has fallen. Right now the Gophers are a fringe bubble team at best.
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First three game winning streak in B10 since 2016-2017 season, shows this is for team is for realz
 


No mention of Northwestern(other than on your list), who just pounded MSU last night and gave Purdue their only loss.

This team is no Joke. I say they finish top 3. 3 Sr. guards and 3 bigs with 5 fouls each.
 

I went with A bit of both but the Gophers are also definitely much improved from where they have been the past 2 seasons.

Big Ten looks like it has very few great teams and there probably isn't much separation between the teams once you get past the top couple.

Lot of season left but I will be very surprised if we aren't in the games most nights with a legit shot of getting the victory. At least based on how we have played to this point and assuming we don't get hit by the injury bug.
 



Little of both.

The team is undoubtedly better. The conference isn’t great.

Michigan is under .500
Nebraska was a nice win!
Maryland is a nice win with an asterisk cause that team isn’t good but we were 0-10 in the last 10 games against them.
 

Holy Man said:
The league is down, our talent is up, we had a terrible non con schedule, and we start the season with several beatable teams in the league.

I'm enjoying the wins no matter what the scenario, but am not willing to bet the farm that the program has turned the corner. I hope so, but more data is needed. Turing the corner starts with winning the games we should, and it looks like we are close to that.

Worst case scenario is that we finish with a record that typically gets in the tournament, but get left out because they didn't challenge themselves in the preseason.
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This.

To start with, we have three ranked teams in this conference, which would have been low even back when there were only ten conference teams. That said, I predict MSU will at least crack the top 25 before the end of this thing.

Dang, of all the years to schedule the weakest non-conference schedule ever! I've mentioned before that a stronger schedule was just what this talented team needed for development and seasoning on the fly. Beyond that, as you say, it's going to kill them if they would find themselves in contention for the Field.
 

The Big Ten is Purdue, then MSU talent-wise (although they have been wildly inconsistent and have not performed to their talent level) and Northwestern with veteran guards. Then it is the rest of the league without a lot of separation in talent. Wisconsin is Wisconsin. They really aren't very good but they won't beat themselves so in a very average league they do fine and will be near top.

All that said, it's really Purdue by themselves and they already had their upset loss to NW - they'll probably have one more, maybe two. They'll run away with it though. And, the Gophers? Who knows, but they're fun to watch, they can score, they can defend, have depth to cover foul trouble and/or poor play. They'll definitely compete with everyone in the conference. That's a huge plus from where we've been.
 
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Otis said:
But the guard play is immensely better! Johnson could save himself and prove to be a good hire after all.
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One thing is true. Two things can be true. The first thing: Ben is absolutely the worst hire the gophers have ever made (up to this point). That WILL NEVER change in my mind. #2: Ben could go down as the best coach the gophers have ever had. I have personally seen people get hired for jobs they have had no business being hired for. When given enough time and patience many of them ended up succeeding in the end. I sure hope that Ben continues to get better as a coach and the Gophers as a team. Loved the victory last night. I would think those long scoring droughts against quality competition might cost us.
 



UpAndUnder43 said:
Little of both.

The team is undoubtedly better. The conference isn’t great.

Michigan is under .500
Nebraska was a nice win!
Maryland is a nice win with an asterisk cause that team isn’t good but we were 0-10 in the last 10 games against them.
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I think this win could marinate well over the year. You're right, Maryland hasn't been that good this year, which is a bit perplexing.

They returned three of their core players (Reese, Young, Scott) from a team that won a tournament game last year. They need a couple of glue guys to evolve.

I'm thankful we got them early in the schedule and just once at home.
 

Was the Big 10 up or down the year we made it to the Final Four? I honestly don't remember because the only thing that matters is that we won games.

Winning matters. Losing matters. I'm not going to cut the program slack if they are losing games in an UP Big 10, I'm not going to quibble if they are winning games in a DOWN Big 10.
 

Gopherbbdude said:
No mention of Northwestern(other than on your list), who just pounded MSU last night and gave Purdue their only loss.

This team is no Joke. I say they finish top 3. 3 Sr. guards and 3 bigs with 5 fouls each.
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Actually, I said NU and OSU should be included with teams meeting expectations.

Yep, they beat Purdue in OT, beat MSU by 14, and lost to Illinois by 30 in their only B1G road game. Also they lost to something called Chicago State and Mississippi State ( who lost to Southern).

Their cupcake non-conference is similar to Minnesota’s!

They look pretty average at best to me.
 
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On t-rank, here are how the ranks go for all the teams in the B1G:

2023: 7,25,31,32,35,36,39,41.44.45.50,59,94.207
2024: 2,9,10,14,26,52,54,63,70,84,96,102,110,112

At its current rank, MN would have finished 12th last year. I think it's pretty fair to say that a lot of teams have gotten worse.

There are, however, better teams at the top in 2024, but the middle is worse, and the number of teams that would have been 12th or worse last year (i.e. worse than 59th) = 7.

I still voted a little of both, but I think the number of teams stinking is significant.
 

Otis said:
Actually, I said NU and OSU should be included with teams meeting expectations.

Yep, they beat Purdue in OT, beat MSU by 14, and lost to Illinois by 30 in their only B1G road game. Also they lost to something called Chicago State and Missouri State ( who lost to Southern).

Their cupcake non-conference is similar to Minnesota’s!

They look pretty average at best to me.
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Northwestern didn't lose to Missouri State. They lost to Mississippi State.
 

formerlybis said:
At its current rank, MN would have finished 12th last year. I think it's pretty fair to say that a lot of teams have gotten worse.
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So, their current T rank puts them at 11th (by that measure) in the conference but would have put them at 12th last season and that is evidence that a lot of teams have gotten worse?

You sound like someone who knows just enough to misuse your knowledge.
 


TwistingMyMelon said:
So, their current T rank puts them at 11th (by that measure) in the conference but would have put them at 12th last season and that is evidence that a lot of teams have gotten worse?

You sound like someone who knows just enough to misuse your knowledge.
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Actually, they're 10th. But, that's not the evidence. The evidence is that 7 teams are worse than the 12th place team last year.
 

formerlybis said:
Actually, they're 10th. But, that's not the evidence. The evidence is that 7 teams are worse than the 12th place team last year.
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As I believe someone tried to tell you before, you cannot compare a sample of scores from a season that's 15 games old to one that contains scores from the entire season plus postseason. Games are not randomly ordered. The last half of the season and the postseason contain games with higher level competition that usually results in higher scores.

Which reinforces my prior point: a little bit of knowledge but limited perspective to evaluate that knowledge.
 

TwistingMyMelon said:
As I believe someone tried to tell you before, you cannot compare a sample of scores from a season that's 15 games old to one that contains scores from the entire season plus postseason. Games are not randomly ordered. The last half of the season and the postseason contain games with higher level competition that usually results in higher scores.

Which reinforces my prior point: a little bit of knowledge but limited perspective to evaluate that knowledge.
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I'm willing to concede the point that we're comparing a half-season to a full season, but the results are instructive, nonetheless. T-rank allows me to go back and compare through this date last year. 12th place was 67th at that time.

You just need to the data to conform to your pre-conceived notion and won't challenge yourself.
 

I said both and I don't think either is debatable. We are clearly better and the conference as a whole is clearly down. As I said a few weeks ago, I think there is very little separation from 5 to 14 and I think a win or 2 could move you 6-7 spots in the Big 10 tournament. I would bet there are a lot of "seed upsets " in the conference tournament but not actually surprising results as most teams look to be pretty even. In theory should make for a lot of close games during the season. There will be 1 team that pulls a 2022 Vikings and goes like 15-5 by winning 8 games by 1 possession, who that is I have 0 idea.
 

leib0039 said:
I said both and I don't think either is debatable. We are clearly better and the conference as a whole is clearly down. As I said a few weeks ago, I think there is very little separation from 5 to 14 and I think a win or 2 could move you 6-7 spots in the Big 10 tournament.
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Last season, there was a 3 game difference between the 2nd place conference team and the 12th place conference team. Doesn't sound much different than what you have described above.
 

Yes, maybe the big ten is down overall, but it is still tough basketball each night to grind through. Think Johnson did a much better job with the transfer portal this year to strengthen the quickness, 3 pt shot, running an offense, and having overall depth that can compete.
 

I can think of worster-case scenarios than this. Anything approaching a .500 conference record is a success after what happened last year. Anything beyond that is gravy for this fan.
Holy Man said:
The league is down, our talent is up, we had a terrible non con schedule, and we start the season with several beatable teams in the league.

I'm enjoying the wins no matter what the scenario, but am not willing to bet the farm that the program has turned the corner. I hope so, but more data is needed. Turing the corner starts with winning the games we should, and it looks like we are close to that.

Worst case scenario is that we finish with a record that typically gets in the tournament, but get left out because they didn't challenge themselves in the preseason
Click to expand...
 


Bob_Loblaw said:
Was the Big 10 up or down the year we made it to the Final Four? I honestly don't remember because the only thing that matters is that we won games.

Winning matters. Losing matters. I'm not going to cut the program slack if they are losing games in an UP Big 10, I'm not going to quibble if they are winning games in a DOWN Big 10.
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I recall it being a bit of a down year in the conference, but that was a long time ago.
 

Otis said:
Actually, I said NU and OSU should be included with teams meeting expectations.

Yep, they beat Purdue in OT, beat MSU by 14, and lost to Illinois by 30 in their only B1G road game. Also they lost to something called Chicago State and Mississippi State ( who lost to Southern).

Their cupcake non-conference is similar to Minnesota’s!

They look pretty average at best to me.
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Last night they looked like a NCAA team..... J&H maybe
 

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