Are Big 10 wins versus Big 10 losses important?

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RodentRampage said:
Big Ten wins are the best way to compare coaches, as it eliminates the unfairness of those coaches who played brutal non-conference schedules being compared to those coaches who played cupcake schedules.
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Actually, that's not even true within the conference, it can be unbalanced since everyone doesn't play everyone. For example, the Gophers didn't play the bottom two B1G teams in 2010. You don't think switching OSU and PSU for Michigan/Indiana wouldn't change things dramatically. That's a potential 5-3 vs. 3-5 record difference, which is actually quite huge. Your B1G schedule can influence a ton on how your season plays out.
 

RodentRampage said:
Big Ten winning percentage since Warmath

.482 Stoll
.411 Holtz
.400 Horton
.400 Mason
.395 Gutekunst
.222 This Brewster
.200 Wacker
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Rodent Rampage: I have further clarified a former coach's name. Wren/Walrus will not know who you're talking about.
 

Monty519 said:
Actually, that's not even true within the conference, it can be unbalanced since everyone doesn't play everyone. For example, the Gophers didn't play the bottom two B1G teams in 2010. You don't think switching OSU and PSU for Michigan/Indiana wouldn't change things dramatically. That's a potential 5-3 vs. 3-5 record difference, which is actually quite huge. Your B1G schedule can influence a ton on how your season plays out.
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That true, it's imperfect, but over time, it's the best you have.
 


GoAUpher said:
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Well said GoAUpher. :clap:
 


The thing that matters is that Mason had MORE Big Ten wins than any coach since Warmath. He had the toughness...the cunning...the support...the fight...the will...and the LONG TERM contracts to totally buck the system at the University of Minnesota to win MORE Big Ten football games than Stoll, Salem, hoax, Gutey, Wacker, brewster and the interm coach who finished off the final five Big Ten games of the fourth and final brewster failed season.

NONE of those coaches had the ability to stick around long enough to beat Mason's total of 32 Big Ten wins.

SURVIVAL means everything. (Of course, it helps when you have incompetent administrators supposdly running the show who you can force to sign you to long-term extensions so that you can do the heavy lifting in getting a new stadium deal done and the naming rights sale completed.)

NONE of those other coaches helped bring the new stadium project on home.

So, by the numbers...Mason falls first in line right after Warmath. In the past 60 years, the pecking order of Big Ten Coaches in Minnesota in terms of Big Ten wins is Warmath, Mason and then Stoll.

At the University of Minnesota, any football coach who wants to surpass Mason is going to need to have one heck of a lot of staying power. If any coach doesn't have the ability, street-smarts, staying power, toughness, and the ablity to keep inadequate administrators at bay and a new stadium to get named and built, they will NEVER reach the total of 32 Big Ten Football wins at the U of M. ; 0 )
 

Gosh,

I thought Hayden Fry and Barry Alvarez were great Big 10 coaches. Both are in the College Football Hall of Fame and left strong programs behind them. We can we look to see Mason inducted?
 

imthewalrus said:
So, in the grand scheme of Big Ten Football, fantasy recruiting stars and rankings matter in any way, shape or form?????????

The only three things that matter are graduating ever increasing numbers of student athletes, running a completely clean and honest football program AND the number of Big Ten wins minus the number of Big Ten losses. Why else is there a Big Ten Football Conference that keeps track of the Big Ten Standings?

So, you dudes and dudettes can fail to pay attention to the standings and go on and on and on about the significance of fantasy fooball recruiting rankings if you want...but...you are totally missing the reason WHY the Big Ten Teams play the Big Ten Schedule. It has nothing to do with non-conference games...it has everything to do with ranking the football programs in the Big Ten based upon the results of the games against other Big Ten teams. And, "...that's the story of...that's the glory of...": Big Ten Football.

How will Coach Kill stack up? The Big Ten wins minus the Big Ten losses will tell the tale.
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I didn't read what you wrote here, and never will, but I am still disappointed. Only 4 paragraphs? I expected to have to scroll down several times to get past it.
 

So essentially, cause we kept Mason longer, he's automatically a better coach. Just like Brett Favre is the absolute best QB ever in the history of the game because he has the most completions, TDs, etc...we'll ignore all those INTs, right? LOL
 



No doubt: fry and alvarez would have....

BOMBED at Minnesota and most likely never would have made it more than five or six seasons. Minnesota is a different game. Neither one of those two fine coaches would have been given the kind of support by the administration at the University of Minnesota that they got at iowa and wisconsin. Sorry lonely iowa dude or dudette, which ever the case may be. Stoll was easily the level of coach that fry and alvarez were. But, they weren't toiling in Minneapolis with the questionable administrators who actually decided to abandon their on campus football stadium. Do you think that without the support they got at iowa and wisky that alvarez and fry ever would have won the way they did as the third tenant...the red-haired step child syndrom victim...the receiver of hand-me-downs and third-classed-citizenship papers they would have received from the U of M administrators and from the twins and vikings?

No...fry and alvarez never would have gotten the job done at the U of M. Heck, hoax recognized THAT fact of life really early on and he bagged tail just as quickly as he could in the middle of the night just a few steps ahead of the NCAA investigators.
 

imthewalrus said:
The thing that matters is that Mason had MORE Big Ten wins than any coach since Warmath. He had the toughness...the cunning...the support...the fight...the will...and the LONG TERM contracts to totally buck the system at the University of Minnesota to win MORE Big Ten football games than Stoll, Salem, hoax, Gutey, Wacker, brewster and the interm coach who finished off the final five Big Ten games of the fourth and final brewster failed season.

NONE of those coaches had the ability to stick around long enough to beat Mason's total of 32 Big Ten wins.

SURVIVAL means everything. (Of course, it helps when you have incompetent administrators supposdly running the show who you can force to sign you to long-term extensions so that you can do the heavy lifting in getting a new stadium deal done and the naming rights sale completed.)

NONE of those other coaches helped bring the new stadium project on home.

So, by the numbers...Mason falls first in line right after Warmath. In the past 60 years, the pecking order of Big Ten Coaches in Minnesota in terms of Big Ten wins is Warmath, Mason and then Stoll.

At the University of Minnesota, any football coach who wants to surpass Mason is going to need to have one heck of a lot of staying power. If any coach doesn't have the ability, street-smarts, staying power, toughness, and the ablity to keep inadequate administrators at bay and a new stadium to get named and built, they will NEVER reach the total of 32 Big Ten Football wins at the U of M. ; 0 )
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Wren, you cut your gospel in half in the middle of a thread. Earlier in this thread, you said Kill will be judged on Big 10 wins MINUS Big 10 losses. You made it clear in that posting that the only way to judge a coach is by looking at their Big 10 wins compared to their Big 10 losses...

Now, you have said that the only thing that matters is the number of wins. What the heck happened to substracting the losses?
 

Fry and Alvarez would have bombed?

First of all, Lou Holtz left for Notre Dame because he had it put in his contract that he could leave Minnesota if he got offered the Fighting Irish job. Do you remember when Mason wanted to leave Minnesota for the Ohio State job?
If Fry and Alvarez would have bonbed at Minnesota, there is absolutely no hope for Gopher football, ever. Both coaches are in the College Football Hall of Fame. Do you know how hard it is to gain that status as a coach? Fry had trouble getting in for a while because of his career losses that came early in his rebuilding of programs at SMU, North Texas and Iowa. It was Bo Schembeckler that fought for Fry's induction. Bo knew how tough it was to play a Fry coached team.
Finally, what Bill Snyder did at Kansas State puts even the accomplishments of Fry and Alvarez to shame. If you think Mason had a tougher job to do at Minnesota than Snyder did at Kansas State, you're nuts. Snyder will be inducted into the College Football Hall of Fame once he finally, finally retires.
 

imthewalrus said:
The thing that matters is that Mason had MORE Big Ten wins than any coach since Warmath. He had the toughness...the cunning...the support...the fight...the will...and the LONG TERM contracts to totally buck the system at the University of Minnesota to win MORE Big Ten football games than Stoll, Salem, hoax, Gutey, Wacker, brewster and the interm coach who finished off the final five Big Ten games of the fourth and final brewster failed season.
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Any of the Gophers coaches would have reached 32 wins if they had stayed here long enough. The total wins doesn't matter one bit. That is one of the most absurd things I have ever read. Was Knute Rockne less of a coach because he was killed in a plane crash, and this couldn't win any more games?

We get it, you hate the Gophers, and you worship Mason.
 



Jeshurun said:
When asked about the meaning of life, Socrates replied "big ten wins."
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I prefer Calvin Coolidge's quote: "When more and more people are thrown out of work, Big Ten wins result."
 

It's time to come clean on administrators!

It's time to name names when it comes to University of Minnesota administrators who did Mason in as the Gopher football coach. Who exactly pulled the plug on Mason in the second halves of Minnesota's most famous collapses against Michigan and Texas Tech? Was it the president? The Women's Athletic Director? Who?
 

LonelyIowaGopher said:
If Fry and Alvarez would have bonbed at Minnesota, there is absolutely no hope for Gopher football, ever. Both coaches are in the College Football Hall of Fame.
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In his world view, Mason is one of the all-time great coaches. But if he was so great, then surely Minnesota made a monumental mistake in firing him. If that is the case, then why has no one else hired him? Are all the university presidents and athletics directors around the country fools?

When Fry and Alvarez were hired, their teams were in the same boat that we were in. You couldn't predict which of Minnesota, Iowa and Wisconsin would do well. Wisconsin hadn't won the Big Ten since 1962. Iowa hadn't won it since 1960, when they were co-champions.
 

Who can forget that great JFK quote: "Ask not what you can do for more Big Ten wins. Ask what you can do for less Big Ten losses."
 

LonelyIowaGopher said:
First of all, Lou Holtz left for Notre Dame because he had it put in his contract that he could leave Minnesota if he got offered the Fighting Irish job. Do you remember when Mason wanted to leave Minnesota for the Ohio State job?
/QUOTE]

No he didn't have that clause. Paul Giel, McGrath and even a couple of Treasurers at the U said there was never such a clause in the Music Man's contract. They said there was no reason to try to hold him to the contract if he was set on going.

The Weasel invented the "magic Notre Dame" contract to make they way he left seem more palatable. Much in the way he told his players at halftime of his last game that "there was no truth to the Notre Dame" rumors it was just another Holtz lie.

Back to your regularly scheduled thread.
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I so wish that Mason would get another coaching job, any coaching job, just so that his worshippers could move on to that team.
 

LonelyIowaGopher said:
First of all, Lou Holtz left for Notre Dame because he had it put in his contract that he could leave Minnesota if he got offered the Fighting Irish job. Do you remember when Mason wanted to leave Minnesota for the Ohio State job?
If Fry and Alvarez would have bonbed at Minnesota, there is absolutely no hope for Gopher football, ever. Both coaches are in the College Football Hall of Fame. Do you know how hard it is to gain that status as a coach? Fry had trouble getting in for a while because of his career losses that came early in his rebuilding of programs at SMU, North Texas and Iowa. It was Bo Schembeckler that fought for Fry's induction. Bo knew how tough it was to play a Fry coached team.
Finally, what Bill Snyder did at Kansas State puts even the accomplishments of Fry and Alvarez to shame. If you think Mason had a tougher job to do at Minnesota than Snyder did at Kansas State, you're nuts. Snyder will be inducted into the College Football Hall of Fame once he finally, finally retires.
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Disagree with the Bill Snyder part. When you can get anyone into school it makes things much, much easier.
 

RodentRampage said:
In his world view, Mason is one of the all-time great coaches. But if he was so great, then surely Minnesota made a monumental mistake in firing him. If that is the case, then why has no one else hired him? Are all the university presidents and athletics directors around the country fools?

When Fry and Alvarez were hired, their teams were in the same boat that we were in. You couldn't predict which of Minnesota, Iowa and Wisconsin would do well. Wisconsin hadn't won the Big Ten since 1962. Iowa hadn't won it since 1960, when they were co-champions.
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Right when they're about to sign the contract, they are blinded by Mason's teeth. Otherwise Ohio State would have fired Jim Tressel long ago in order to hire Mason as the highest paid coach in any sport at any level. Mason would then proceed to get 80 straight Big Ten Wins.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Who can forget that great JFK quote: "Ask not what you can do for more Big Ten wins. Ask what you can do for less Big Ten losses."
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Or Lincoln's "Four score and seven Big Ten wins ago."
 

It's still so funny that someone who has a special pair of knee pads for Glen Mason likes to talk about Big Ten wins. Talk about irony. If people would have ignored the wins of Louisiana Lafeyette and Western Kentucky State and just looked at the Big Ten record, we could have gotten rid of Glen Mason much, much sooner. It's like a fat girl wanting to be judged on her physique instead of her personality.
 

Or the MLK speech, "I have a big ten win"

I can't believe that we are debating the same things with Mrs Mason 4-5 years after the fact. This are the exact same arguments we all had with her back in the day.
 

"A journey of at thousand wins ...

... begins with one Big Ten Win at at time." Mao Tse-tung

(Please excuse the at which should have been an a)
 

Nathan Hale

"I regret that I have but one Big Ten Win to give my university." Nathan Mason Hale
 

"this is one small win for man, one Big Ten win for mankind" - Neil Armstrong
 

dpodoll68 said:
Who can forget that great JFK quote: "Ask not what you can do for more Big Ten wins. Ask what you can do for less Big Ten losses."
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Dpo ~

You must have not gotten the memo, according to Wren, Big 10 losses don't matter at all anymore.
 

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to procure more Big Ten Wins.-Thomas Jefferson
 

How about this one from John Lennon

"All we are saying is give Big Ten wins a chance."

Or how about this classic from Rick James

"You can't have Big Ten wins without drugs, you can't have Big Ten wins without sex."
 

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