I would think so, too, which is why I'm excited to watch a game between two teams I don't really like.
AP Poll 10-12-14
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There is NO WAY NDSU Can afford to go up bigtime.
They'd have to add 20 schollies plus build a new domed stadium that would seat 40 thou plus imstead of their current 18 thou.
Plus they'd have to budget millions more for coaches pay in all sports. Ain't gonna happen.
They'd have to add 20 schollies plus build a new domed stadium that would seat 40 thou plus imstead of their current 18 thou.
Plus they'd have to budget millions more for coaches pay in all sports. Ain't gonna happen.
upnorthkid
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exactly. stick as a big fish in a small pond instead of a medium fish is a big pond.
mnsportsgeek
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I don't think they'd need to do anything to the stadium. Conference USA has a lot of small stadiums too.
I still maintain the Fargo Dome would be too small for the big time.
The way things are, ticket prices are very affordable. That would change too.
Not so fast Dr, I wouldn't call the lower tier FBS bigtime. NDSU could move to the Sunbelt for FB with current stadium and win that league and 2-3 other FBS G5 leagues right now. If NDSU increases it's budget by 3-4 million for schollies, they'd be there. Lots of $ upside in the NDSU fanbase and in playing more FBS games. If NDSU can't get games vs. FBS team (which seem to be drying up . . . see B1G's preference for G5 patsies vs. playing good regional teams), they won't sit around in the FCS. Add 20 schollies, and that's a scarry good team.
It really depends if FBS playoff expands and opens up avenues for more of it's 10 conferences, or if the 2nd Tier starts its own playoff. Either way, NDSU isn't going to sit at the FCS level and watch the program die on the vine when it could be winning at a higher level.
mplsbadger
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I just think that if FSU ran the table and ND finished 11-1 that ND would get into the playoff.
Currently $30 GA, $35-$40 Reserved, if you could find one. Not MN prices, but ramping up.
mnsportsgeek
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They might. But it would be between them, a 1 loss B1G, and a 1-2 loss SEC.
That 4th spot in the playoff is going to be a doozy to decide.
bkrownd
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These programs have had their moments, but seldom in the same year. All 3 were in the 10-20 range in an early poll in 1953, but that's about it.
FYI, Bernie Bierman and Murray Warmath were both briefly head coaches at Mississippi State
bleedsmaroonandgold
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That's a lot of confidence for a fan of a program whose best win ever was against a 5-4 Big 12 team.
Confidence that NDSU could compete for championships in the Sunbelt, MAC, MWC or CUSA? With an additional 20 scholarships? Do you follow college football, at all?
Give it up Herd. NDSU is upper echelon of a low tier. Stay there, and you will be happy.
upnorthkid
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You make some very faulty assumptions when you just say add 20 schollies and they'd be awesome. First, where are you getting these guys from? 2nd, look at what playing non-traditional teams does to your program in terms of excitement. UND moved up and moved to the Great West in the most idiotic move they ever could've and their team has gone down the crapper. Now you lose for a couple years and kids aren't wanting to come quite so bad. NDSU draws the kids that are, traditionally, the leftovers of MN, Wisconsin, Iowa, Nebraska, etc (not always the case but for the most part). Just moving up, without adequate facilities to draw upper tier kids is hard. Not to mention your increased travel expenses from switching to the Sun Belt or another conference. That type of move is what has cratered UND, which was a very good DII program when they thought they could move up and it didn't matter what conference they joined. If it worked out that they could join a conference that had some regional flair and that fit their style (same thing that has happened to UND, went to a pass happy conference that they didn't have the athletes to compete with), I don't doubt they could win games; but there's a whole lot more to it than what you see on the field.
Goldy Gopher
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A big problem for UND wasn't who they were playing or the conference they were in it was the coaching staff they had when they moved up and that they didn't stick to the identity that had made them successful in the past. They tried to run a spread throw it all over the place system and really local kids were an after thought for them and they couldn't draw the types of players they needed to run that system. Their new coach runs a more traditional system and has put a huge emphasis on the Minnesota, North Dakota, and regional recruiting he has also has a few commitments from Canadians and they have had some good past success there. They also have a new indoor practice facility currently going up and while it has taken them a while and some very bad years I think they are on the right track to being competitive at the FCS level.
upnorthkid
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I don't disagree with anything you've said, but they've lost a large part of the fanbase now, including the students, and that is crippling for a team that was already an afterthought in a hockey oriented town
Goldy Gopher
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Definitely agree when I was younger I went to a few of their games and the stadium seemed like it was twice as full as it looked on Saturday when I saw their game on TV. I think for the last few years football season in Grand Forks has basically just been something to do while they are waiting for hockey to start and with hockey starting this weekend their attendance may start dwindling from week to week. I would guess it will take a few successful seasons before they see any improvement in attendance.
Und joined the Great West, then Transitioned to the Big Sky. Ndsu joined the great West, then transitioned to the MVFC. No difference there at all. The General FB commitment and support is the only difference.
If FBS conference eliminate FCS games, what's the value of staying FCS? If you can test yourself vs a P5 team each year, then being FCS is palatable. Currently G5, B1G and B12 won't play NDSU, and many of NDSU's peers in FCS are transition to G5 conferences to stay connected with regular P5 games. Why wouldn't NDSU who has dominated the FCS level (48 of 50) do the same?
If FBS conference eliminate FCS games, what's the value of staying FCS? If you can test yourself vs a P5 team each year, then being FCS is palatable. Currently G5, B1G and B12 won't play NDSU, and many of NDSU's peers in FCS are transition to G5 conferences to stay connected with regular P5 games. Why wouldn't NDSU who has dominated the FCS level (48 of 50) do the same?
Sparlimb
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Which is why you expand the playoff to 8 and guarantee a shot to the conference champion of the Big 5. Then the other 3 spots can be for the committee.
bleedsmaroonandgold
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Because you have too much fun rattling off 11 wins against minor league football, sniping one bad to mediocre FBS program where you have the advantage of your biggest and most prepared for game of the year being against an opponent when its their least significant and least prepared for game of the year, and then declaring yourselves masters of the universe while you make charts comparing yourselves to Alabama.
Please explain to me how moving from the MVFC to the Sunbelt would be a step-up to Bigtime football? It would involve 3-4 million for added scholarships, but he product on the fieldin the SBC is no different than the product onthe field in the MVFC. Below are the current rankings in 2014 in case you only get the BTN channel. If you are not allowed to play FBS games as an FCS level team, why wouldn't you move to a lower G5 FBS conference in order to get higher level games and improve your profile. Georgia Southern who didn't make the FCS playoffs in 2013, is running away with the Sunbelt conferece lead in 2014.
CONFERENCE CENTRAL MEAN SIMPLE AVERAGE TEAMS WIN50%
1 SEC-WEST (A) = 91.19 90.48 ( 1) 7 90.63 ( 1)
2 PAC-12(SOUTH) (A) = 79.83 78.61 ( 3) 6 79.19 ( 3)
3 BIG 12 (A) = 79.82 79.41 ( 2) 10 79.66 ( 2)
4 SEC-EAST (A) = 79.20 78.43 ( 4) 7 79.09 ( 4)
5 PAC-12(NORTH) (A) = 77.46 77.73 ( 5) 6 77.62 ( 5)
6 BIG TEN-EAST (A) = 74.67 75.35 ( 6) 7 75.09 ( 6)
7 ACC-COASTAL (A) = 74.44 74.41 ( 7) 7 74.42 ( 7)
8 ACC-ATLANTIC (A) = 74.26 74.17 ( 8) 7 74.27 ( 8)
9 BIG TEN-WEST (A) = 73.96 73.21 ( 9) 7 73.51 ( 9)
10 I-A INDEPENDENTS (A) = 70.16 70.25 ( 10) 4 70.18 ( 10)
11 MWC-MOUNTAIN (A) = 65.69 65.25 ( 11) 6 65.39 ( 11)
12 AMERICAN ATHLETIC (A) = 63.82 63.42 ( 12) 11 63.58 ( 12)
13 MISSOURI VALLEY (AA)= 63.09 63.13 ( 13) 10 63.10 ( 13)
14 MWC-WEST (A) = 61.79 61.09 ( 15) 6 61.37 ( 15)
15 CONFERENCE USA-EAST (A) = 61.73 62.41 ( 14) 7 62.02 ( 14)
16 MAC-WEST (A) = 59.94 59.16 ( 17) 6 59.60 ( 17)
17 CONFERENCE USA-WEST (A) = 59.81 60.22 ( 16) 6 60.12 ( 16)
18 SUN BELT (A) = 54.43 55.02 ( 18) 11 54.75 ( 18)
19 MAC-EAST (A) = 53.55 54.18 ( 19) 7 53.97 ( 19)
20 COLONIAL (AA)= 50.24 50.59 ( 21) 12 50.35 ( 21)
21 BIG SOUTH (AA)= 50.21 50.62 ( 20) 6 50.42 ( 20)
22 SOUTHERN (AA)= 50.05 49.43 ( 22) 8 49.89 ( 22)
23 SOUTHLAND (AA)= 49.85 48.49 ( 25) 11 49.66 ( 23)
24 OHIO VALLEY (AA)= 49.06 48.95 ( 24) 9 49.20 ( 24)
25 BIG SKY (AA)= 48.30 49.31 ( 23) 13 48.90 ( 25)
26 IVY LEAGUE (AA)= 48.05 47.34 ( 26) 8 47.77 ( 26)
27 PATRIOT (AA)= 45.41 45.51 ( 27) 7 45.46 ( 27)
BJN
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I have no problem with NDSU moving up and continuing to grow. Just like having a solid bench pushes the starters to improve, having a solid successful secondary FBS team in the region will put upward pressure on the Gophers and keep them improving.
upnorthkid
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Ok I'm going to remove the chart because it says nothing and looks awful. Plus I can cherry pick any one I want to disprove that the conference rankings that people develop mean nothing since I just pulled up the Real Time RPI and the MVC is 16th (below the Sun Belt at 11) which could just as equally be garbage. You assume moving up would allow you to play the power 5. No one wants to schedule NDSU right now for the obvious on the field reasons. That won't change. Moving up to the Sun Belt kills you in geographical expenses for travel and will aggravate many fans because right now they have some great regional rivalries (and if you're going to try maintain those, well how exactly are you getting this abundance of power 5 matchups?). Let's say that you manage to move up, play an 8 game conference schedule against the Sun Belt. You have 4 non-conf games. Let's say you schedule one or two against your neighborly rivals like SDSU, Montana because there is no benefit for MN to play you in order to keep the fans happy in that circumstance. Who do you think out of the power 5 is clamoring to schedule NDSU? The answer is no one. No power 5 is going to want to schedule you. You don't have Bohl anymore with his connections to get those games. You won't play any high profile games for the short while. And less kids are going to want to come play the Sun Belt from the area because their friends and family can't watch them play as much as they used to.
Overall you get 3-5 years into this and fans are frustrated with the travel; maybe you manage to stay successful adapting to a new brand of football and can survive those years of lull, but if you don't, you can enter an abyss and now you're stuck in the Sun Belt and now maybe some power 5 teams sensing weakness will schedule you since they might feel it's now an easier win. Moving up isn't in the school's best interest at this time as too much change is happening. You'd be wise to keep yourself as a perennial power so that kids keep clamoring to want to come there. Then once the NCAA movement settles and conference realignment starts to relax, maybe you can latch onto a conference like the MAC that has a little more regional taste to keep the costs lower, you might have the money for a stadium saved, and kids still will want to play for a program that has kicked ass for years. Pump your brakes. Moving up just to move up is an idiotic idea. The University has done a damn good job guiding you to this point. Don't get greedy and over-extend and then look back with remorse when you're stuck somewhere you don't want to be
Twinsfan007
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Bingo +100000
DoubleB
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seriously we need just 4 conferences and the champions of the conferences go to the playoffs
yes that would mean huge conferences with divisions and those would have play offs to determine the champions. It would eliminate all the guess work. it would be very similar to a national playoff.
yes that would mean huge conferences with divisions and those would have play offs to determine the champions. It would eliminate all the guess work. it would be very similar to a national playoff.
RodentRampage
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Give up the Big Ten just to simplify a tournament? I'll pass. There would still be problems - people would complain that one super-conference deserved two teams, while another deserved none.
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upnorthkid
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128 schools in 4 conferences (with let's say 2 divisions each) would break down to 16 teams per division. Not enough time to play everyone realistically and geography would be really rough there. Gotta go to 8 conferences (with 2 divisions each) to break down to 8 team divisions so you can play everyone within your division. IF we're doing this hardcore, Shorten the regular season to the 7 divisional games plus one scrimmage preseason for 8 games. Then seed the 2 divisions and play playoffs with games @ higher seed home site. 3 games to get to win divisional playoffs w/ single elim. Then the divisional champs play each other to determine the conference champs (8 of them) with site for title game decided by the conferences themselves. Played 11 games (if my math is right) to this point with 8 teams leftover. Seed them using selection committee/polls/whatever with initial game being at home sites (to encourage football in north late in the year) and you have 3 games left to decide it all and the max is still at 14 games in a season. Logistically can decide how to do other bowl selection for those that don't make the playoffs final 8 (such as conference runner up tournament, do you play for 3rd place in the conference). Eliminates the selection bias for picking the final 8. Would absolutely KILL the small schools and those with poor facilities.