Anyone still defending Cosgrove?

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NewEngland_Gold said:
Troll-O-Meter

Hate Level: Very High
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Well, to be fair, these NU fans heard about the board, found the thread and are posting their observations from a few YEARS of Cosgrove. I think it's far too convenient to just dismiss what they are saying.

It's like the abused spouse who divorces her husband. She tries to tell the next girlfriend/wife that he's going to hit her, but she hasn't been hit yet so she ignores the warnings. It's all good....until it isn't. Everyone here WANTS to believe in Cosgrove, yet there are no statistical signs of improvement (which reminds me I need to post the stats for the week)....all we have is "hope" that he'll be better going forward. Wisconsin was happy to see him go. Nebraska was happy to see him go. Yet here we are as Gopher fans just happy to have him.

I think it's fine that some want to back Cosgrove - have at it. But to just dismiss those who have seen it all before from him is a mistake IMO.
 

Clyde Tester said:
Well, to be fair, these NU fans heard about the board, found the thread and are posting their observations from a few YEARS of Cosgrove. I think it's far too convenient to just dismiss what they are saying.

It's like the abused spouse who divorces her husband. She tries to tell the next girlfriend/wife that he's going to hit her, but she hasn't been hit yet so she ignores the warnings. It's all good....until it isn't. Everyone here WANTS to believe in Cosgrove, yet there are no statistical signs of improvement (which reminds me I need to post the stats for the week)....all we have is "hope" that he'll be better going forward. Wisconsin was happy to see him go. Nebraska was happy to see him go. Yet here we are as Gopher fans just happy to have him.

I think it's fine that some want to back Cosgrove - have at it. But to just dismiss those who have seen it all before from him is a mistake IMO.
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Most here seem to agree that Brew & Co are recruiting O/D at a level higher than at any time in the last 40 years. Great. No one here seems to have a firm grip on whether they can actually "coach them up" to be average or above-average BT on-field performers.

So, given above-average recruited talent, if the Gs stats on D don't improve materially from the BT bottom-feeding range in the next 1-2 years, it's doubtful Cosgrove's (and Lee's?) contract will be renewed and Brewster will likely be on the "hot seat" as well.

Cosgrove's fate as a G D coach will be determined by results on the field...and relatively soon imho.
 

If I remember right, we had all this information when we hired Cosgrove. No one was terribly happy about it then, either. BUT, our defense has, as far as I can tell, played up to its abilities this season, and unfortunately, Cos is who we could afford. We've had a lot of recent turnover. We can't afford to go out and get another D-coord. now, and even if we could, our defense hasn't really shown Cos' weaknesses yet (at least, not relative to the Ds we've seen here the last couple decades). And if those two things weren't true, we would STILL need some fricking stability in this coaching staff.

Like it or not, he's here next season. Get used to it.
 

RedPoo said:
Cos is who we could afford
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I absolutely refuse to believe that we couldn't have done better than a guy who flat-out sucked in his last coordinator job, and was so sought-after that we plucked him from his position as a volunteer HS coach in Madison.

There had to be a BCS position coach or non-BCS coordinator looking for a shot at moving up, and who wouldn't have cost any more than Cosgrove. There just had to be.

But you're right, though - we have to stick with this horrible coach now that we have him here. We can't afford any more staff turnover at this point.
 

The only thing I could think of is that this coordinator is going to stay, and given the revolving doors for DC positions here for the last decade, it seemed like that was part of the requirement.

I have not been too critical of the staff, since I have a sincere interest in stability in the coaching staff. I would like a DC to last more then 3yrs for once. Just so I don't have to hear the excuses about how our players are still learning the terminology and once they get it they can just play instead of think.
 


There was a reference earlier to no one criticizing Cosgrove last year. Found this thread (I'm sure ther are others too) from last year.
 

Maroon said:
There was a reference earlier to no one criticizing Cosgrove last year. Found this thread (I'm sure ther are others too) from last year.
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As long as you're looking, see if you can find any "fire Cosgrove" threads after the NW, Penn State, Iowa, Iowa State, MTSU or even Purdue games.

And after reading another bleeding thread containing the "I'm a Nebraska Football fan", I've come to the conclusion that Cosgrove was the Defensive Coordinator in the following seasons:

2007
2004
2002
1968
1967
1961
1960
1959
1958
1957
1956
1955
1954
1953
1952
1951
1949
1948
1947
1946
1945
1944
1943
1942
1941
1938

(in many of the early years Cosgrove is referred to as the Offensive Coach)

The only other thing we can be sure of is every time the Gopher defense will have a bad game under Cosgrove they'll show up again and every time the Gopher defense has a good game the bitter screwballs will be nowhere to be found.
 

Iceland12 said:
The only other thing we can be sure of is every time the Gopher defense will have a bad game under Cosgrove they'll show up again and every time the Gopher defense has a good game the bitter screwballs will be nowhere to be found.
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No, I'm around when the defense has a good game too.
 

Maroon said:
No, I'm around when the defense has a good game too.
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I was referring to the @$&&^%$*^R^(& Nebraska fans !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I thought Maroon was the Gopher color.

Judas Priest, get over yourself for a moment will ya?
 




Iceland12 said:
I was referring to the @$&&^%$*^R^(& Nebraska fans !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I thought Maroon was the Gopher color.

Judas Priest, get over yourself for a moment will ya?
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Get over myself? I was referring to myself as a bitter screwball. Next time I'll try to be more harsh.
 

Last I heard Johnnie Cochran turned down the job.
 

Evidence

This is all the evidence you need that Cosgrove is a bum (from the Strib article):

"I don't think you can overestimate the role the play-calling of (offensive coordinator) Wesley Beschorner played in this game," Meierkort said. "He was moving the pocket around, hitting inside zones, calling some play-actions. We burned them on some blitzes with some screens ... It was a beautiful thing. We have a very creative offensive coordinator here and he was a step ahead of their defensive coordinator all day."
 



Cosgrove is good at:
Vanilla run defense against teams that do not use misdirection
Defense against teams that keep their QB under center (unless they use misdirection)
Pass defense against teams with inaccurate QBs

Cosgrove is not good at:
Defending cutback runs
Teaching tackling (other than the attempted-strip-and-get-carried-by-the-ballcarrier-5-to-10-yards)
Teaching corners to cover without giving a 10-to-15 yard cushion
Disguising blitzes
Making adjustments at the half
Play recognition (see last year's Wisconsin game)
Defending screens
Defending spread QBs

I'll say that I never liked his hire from the beginning. Maybe people liked him last year because he didn't suck as bad as prior terrible defensive coordinators. However, I've followed both Minnesota and Nebraska for quite some time and the above list is based on my observations from the last 8 years of watching Cosgrove (but do not include his High School coaching stint). Cosgrove does best when he inherits a team that already knows how to tackle. Tackling is only going to get worse.
 

tjgesquire said:
This is all the evidence you need that Cosgrove is a bum (from the Strib article):

"I don't think you can overestimate the role the play-calling of (offensive coordinator) Wesley Beschorner played in this game," Meierkort said. "He was moving the pocket around, hitting inside zones, calling some play-actions. We burned them on some blitzes with some screens ... It was a beautiful thing. We have a very creative offensive coordinator here and he was a step ahead of their defensive coordinator all day."
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Similar to when Chase Daniel at Mizzou compared Cosgrove's defense to a high school defense that could not make effective adjustments.
 

My take on Coz:

Cosgrove was a better DC when UW had better defensive players. It's about as simple as that. Some of our teams excelled on defense. I think we were in the top three in lowest points allowed one year. A few years we sucked. None of these coaches on any team can make a silk purse out of a pig's ear. These guys all steal ideas from each other. There are no big secrets. You think the DCs at Florida and OSU are really that much better than thier peers? Give them the Gopher D and see how they would do. I bet not much better. It's about having good players. I think you're starting like 9 new guys on that side of the ball. It's going to take some time. Coz is not brilliant, but a good solid football coach.
 


It's hard to imagine what cos could have done. If we are going to blame him than we better be able to name who he could have played that would have made a difference. I just don't think he had a plug for this hole. We want to say he didn't adjust, how could he? who on the field was going to direct these players to the right spots and remind them of their assignments, cos couldn't run out there. No on field leadership, no experienced players. It's a real mess. we knew this coming in, I thought maybe we'd be a little better in the secondary but apparently not.
I think we just plain suck in the secondary right now. Not talent wise maybe, but certainly in experience. We were exploited with no option out. This is a real problem, because it doesn't really fix itself quickly.
 

Schnoodler said:
It's hard to imagine what cos could have done. If we are going to blame him than we better be able to name who he could have played that would have made a difference. I just don't think he had a plug for this hole. We want to say he didn't adjust, how could he? who on the field was going to direct these players to the right spots and remind them of their assignments, cos couldn't run out there. No on field leadership, no experienced players. It's a real mess. we knew this coming in, I thought maybe we'd be a little better in the secondary but apparently not.
I think we just plain suck in the secondary right now. Not talent wise maybe, but certainly in experience. We were exploited with no option out. This is a real problem, because it doesn't really fix itself quickly.
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That's some real revisionist history for you there. Bravo! :clap:
 


One bad game, even very bad is not enough to react to. He was fine for us last year. let's see what happens. If he can't make the changes all the coaches are history anyway. It's not like Brew has the time to change coordinators again. No need to get alarmed, we can't do *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!# about it no matter.
 

Schnoodler said:
One bad game, even very bad is not enough to react to. He was fine for us last year. let's see what happens. If he can't make the changes all the coaches are history anyway. It's not like Brew has the time to change coordinators again. No need to get alarmed, we can't do *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!# about it no matter.
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What you don't seem to grasp is that it isn't one game that most people are reacting to.
 


dpodoll68 said:
You're saying Lynch is better than Jahvid Best?

You're joking, right?
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No...he is saying that the team from Cal, which that year had Lynch on it, was better than the Cal team that showed up here last year.
 

Unregistered User said:
No...he is saying that the team from Cal, which that year had Lynch on it, was better than the Cal team that showed up here last year.
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If he mentions two players as the basis for his reasoning, that leads me to believe he thinks said players are better. And if he believes Marshawn Lynch is better than Jahvid Best, he didn't watch Cal vs. Min 2006, Cal vs. Min 2009, or any NFL football this year.
 

dpodoll68 said:
If he mentions two players as the basis for his reasoning, that leads me to believe he thinks said players are better. And if he believes Marshawn Lynch is better than Jahvid Best, he didn't watch Cal vs. Min 2006, Cal vs. Min 2009, or any NFL football this year.
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Maybe he's just mentioning those names as a point of reference. Who cares?
 

dpodoll68 said:
If he mentions two players as the basis for his reasoning, that leads me to believe he thinks said players are better. And if he believes Marshawn Lynch is better than Jahvid Best, he didn't watch Cal vs. Min 2006, Cal vs. Min 2009, or any NFL football this year.
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Are you serious? Are you not familiar with what a point of reference is?
 

positively4thstreet said:
Are you serious? Are you not familiar with what a point of reference is?
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Yes.

However, if I say the 2009 Vikings (with Favre at QB) were better than the 2008 Vikings (with Frerotte/Jackson at QB), what does that imply to you?

I'll hang up and listen.
 

dpodoll68 said:
If he mentions two players as the basis for his reasoning, that leads me to believe he thinks said players are better. And if he believes Marshawn Lynch is better than Jahvid Best, he didn't watch Cal vs. Min 2006, Cal vs. Min 2009, or any NFL football this year.
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Not that it really matters, but you could certainly make an argument that Lynch was as talented if not more talented than Jahvid Best was at the time in their career.

Marshawn Lynch opened his career with back-to-back 1,000 yard seasons. You think Best is going to hit 1,000 yards this season? And next?

Lynch also had more yards rushing and receiving in college. I realize that Best got hurt, i'm just saying it shouldn't be an obvious decision on who was a better ball player at Cal.

Additionally, Marshawn Lynch was picked 12th overrall anmd Jahvid Best was picked 30th.

Now, i'm not saying that Lynch hasn't lost quite a bit from all of his issues, i'm merely saying that MArshawn Lynch was a supremely talented player while at Cal and the begining of his career. It would be hard for Best to have a better first two seasons in the NFL than Lynch.
 

Badger1bob said:
My take on Coz:

Cosgrove was a better DC when UW had better defensive players. It's about as simple as that. Some of our teams excelled on defense. I think we were in the top three in lowest points allowed one year. A few years we sucked. None of these coaches on any team can make a silk purse out of a pig's ear. These guys all steal ideas from each other. There are no big secrets. You think the DCs at Florida and OSU are really that much better than thier peers? Give them the Gopher D and see how they would do. I bet not much better. It's about having good players. I think you're starting like 9 new guys on that side of the ball. It's going to take some time. Coz is not brilliant, but a good solid football coach.
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And USC might have their worst defense in decade . . . with Monte Kiffin as DC. UCLA has had one of the worst offenses in college football over the past several years . . . with Norm Chow as OC.
 

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