Anybody listening to the Pitino show?

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WriterGoph said:
Not arguing for Pitino, but just countering your examples a bit...

George Mason also made a Final Four too. Does that mean it's a better basketball program than Minnesota? No, It just means they caught lightning in a bottle - which is what I'd argue as well for VCU that year.

Butler did it two years in a row, but they also had a HUGE unicorn named Gordon Hayward. If he wasn't such a small town Indiana guy, he would have crushed it for a blue blood. There just aren't very many kids who have that same interest in staying home these days.
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Butler only had Gordon Hayward for the first Final 4 run. He went pro early, and they did it again without him.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
Gathering from some of Darren Wolfson's comments on twitter that he feels Pitino will be back. Not interested in this becoming a bash of Darren, but I wonder if Pitino knows he's safe. If Coyle has made a decision to have him back, I'm wondering why he doesn't come out and say it. It would settle everyone down and allow Pitino and the players to just relax. I still think it's 50/50, but arguments can be made each way. I find myself arguing both sides.
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I think it is better than 50/50 that he gets fired, but I still like him and I still think he could be successful here or elsewhere. I see no reason for people to hate on him like we see here. I see nothing that is evidence of a lack of work ethic or that he has lost the players. I think that what he has done with this squad, based on what people thought going into the year (down year/dumpster fire) after Coffey left, has been a pretty good coaching job and perhaps a half dozen free throws and made Gabe 3's from it being a great year.

Those who have been decent about it and are just ready for a new guy...I have no beef with those people. As you say, arguments can be made both ways.

#1 problem right now is perception of fans and recruits, not his ability. If he keeps the job it has to be because he convinces Coyle he is in good shape to keep and sign the help needed to win next year. If he can't show that to Coyle convincingly, I think that Coyle probably has to move on because Pitino would be lame duck all next year if he isn't able to land good players in the spring who can help right away.
If he has a winning year next year, I think that the corner is turned and he is off the hot seat. Hot seat coaching is tough.
 


MaxyJR1 said:
Gathering from some of Darren Wolfson's comments on twitter that he feels Pitino will be back. Not interested in this becoming a bash of Darren, but I wonder if Pitino knows he's safe. If Coyle has made a decision to have him back, I'm wondering why he doesn't come out and say it. It would settle everyone down and allow Pitino and the players to just relax. I still think it's 50/50, but arguments can be made each way. I find myself arguing both sides.
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If Coyle has decided that Pitino is back 100%, he should say so. It would make it much easier not to be tempted to root for Nebraska on Sunday.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
Gathering from some of Darren Wolfson's comments on twitter that he feels Pitino will be back. Not interested in this becoming a bash of Darren, but I wonder if Pitino knows he's safe. If Coyle has made a decision to have him back, I'm wondering why he doesn't come out and say it. It would settle everyone down and allow Pitino and the players to just relax. I still think it's 50/50, but arguments can be made each way. I find myself arguing both sides.
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DW also said Paul Molitor wouldn't be fired and Boudreau wouldn't be fired before the season ended.
 


howeda7 said:
If Coyle has decided that Pitino is back 100%, he should say so. It would make it much easier not to be tempted to root for Nebraska on Sunday.
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Ridiculous. I am the AD and I approved this message. Utterly ridiculous.
And root for Nebraska? Please. Hackin, are you giving away the game in Bloomington?
 

Spottedmuskie said:
Would we be any better with Curry? He always limped around.. every succesful program has athletes leaving early.. Look at Virginia and TTU this year..
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Those 2 teams are great examples of what it means to build a program. Toughness being the main similarity between them. People will say you can't compare Minnesota to those teams, but you can't until you can.
 

bga1 said:
I think it is better than 50/50 that he gets fired, but I still like him and I still think he could be successful here or elsewhere. I see no reason for people to hate on him like we see here. I see nothing that is evidence of a lack of work ethic or that he has lost the players. I think that what he has done with this squad, based on what people thought going into the year (down year/dumpster fire) after Coffey left, has been a pretty good coaching job and perhaps a half dozen free throws and made Gabe 3's from it being a great year.

Those who have been decent about it and are just ready for a new guy...I have no beef with those people. As you say, arguments can be made both ways.

#1 problem right now is perception of fans and recruits, not his ability. If he keeps the job it has to be because he convinces Coyle he is in good shape to keep and sign the help needed to win next year. If he can't show that to Coyle convincingly, I think that Coyle probably has to move on because Pitino would be lame duck all next year if he isn't able to land good players in the spring who can help right away.
If he has a winning year next year, I think that the corner is turned and he is off the hot seat. Hot seat coaching is tough.
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Revisionist history going on here. The majority of people on this board did not think this.
 

scools12 said:
Revisionist history going on here. The majority of people on this board did not think this.
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How would you not have thought this year would be a down year? They had 2.5 players that even saw the court for them last year. Did you assume Oturu would be a legit first team all-conference player? After Carr's 0-fer at Pittsburgh, did you think he would be a top point guard in this league?

I was actually far more disappointed in a 9-11 record last year with the players on that team than I am with an 8 or 9 conference win season this year given the youth and inexperience going into the year. NOTE: that's not an excuse for whiffing on the IW/Harris class.
 



golfing18now said:
How would you not have thought this year would be a down year? They had 2.5 players that even saw the court for them last year. Did you assume Oturu would be a legit first team all-conference player? After Carr's 0-fer at Pittsburgh, did you think he would be a top point guard in this league?

I was actually far more disappointed in a 9-11 record last year with the players on that team than I am with an 8 or 9 conference win season this year given the youth and inexperience going into the year. NOTE: that's not an excuse for whiffing on the IW/Harris class.
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What I thought isn't the issue.
 

skiumah1 said:
Fair enough and I'm with you on those points.

I just find it hard to believe that the thinking exists that Minnesota can't be a tournament team every year, and do some damage when we get there. I'm not talking a final four team year-in and year-out, I'm just talking contending for a sweet 16 on a yearly basis. That doesn't mean getting to the sweet 16 every year but always being in contention. Why can't Minnesota be that school with our resources?
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I do not find it hard to believe, nor would (or is) my expectation be that the Gophers make it to the NCAA Tournament every year. Why? Because only 2 teams from the Big 10 have made it for the even the past 5 years in a row and one of those (Purdue) is in solid danger of missing the out this year.

For the past 5 years here is the NCAA Tourney Breakdown:

Team / NCAA Berths - S16 (or better)
Mich St / 5 - 2
Purdue / 5 - 3
Wisconsin / 4 - 3
Michigan / 4 - 3
Maryland / 4 - 1
Ohio St / 3 - 0
Indiana / 2 - 1
Iowa / 2 - 0
Minnesota / 2 - 0
Northwestern / 1 - 0
the rest / 0 - 0

My expectation would be to make it 3 out of 5 years, at least 1 Sweet16. Do that and I would up the goals, but realistically it does not happen often and will likely be more difficult to be consistently above average with the new transfers rules, player comp, etc..
 
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USAF said:
"We?"

Second, were they a "young" team last year? They finished under .500 in the B1G. Many of the same issues.

What's the one constant? The coach.

Christ, move on already. He has no birthright to the Gopher coaching job.
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Could say the same thing about you and a few others. We get it, you don't like Pitino and wanted him fired a long time ago.
 

scools12 said:
Revisionist history going on here. The majority of people on this board did not think this.
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Last year's team was 9-11

In a poll on this site 50% said 9 wins or less
Another 39% thought 10-11 wins


When asked the question if this team could be better than last year- you and most here said no. See for yourself.
I chose 10-11 wins. Obviously we have lost the close games it would have taken to do that.

Blue Ribbon had us 11th
BT Powerhouse had us 12th
Big Ten media poll had us 11th
CBS had us 11th
 



For my money, Fleck highlights Pitino's biggest shortcoming: the apparent lack of situational coaching. I don't see basketball players who "choke," I see players who have been poorly prepared at how to execute during crunch time. Players who don't attack the full-court press that everyone knows is coming, instead they simply try to survive the press.

Fleck on the other hand, has made a point of working on situational football: short-yardage plays, 3rd-and-long plays, etc. And it shows, his players don't choke, they execute in those situations, because they've been prepared to do it.

I think the U can do better.
 

bga1 said:
Last year's team was 9-11

In a poll on this site 50% said 9 wins or less
Another 39% thought 10-11 wins


When asked the question if this team could be better than last year- you and most here said no. See for yourself.
I chose 10-11 wins. Obviously we have lost the close games it would have taken to do that.

Blue Ribbon had us 11th
BT Powerhouse had us 12th
Big Ten media poll had us 11th
CBS had us 11th
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Not the majority but still not the dumpster you tried to make it out as.
 

scools12 said:
What I thought isn't the issue.
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What did you think they would finish this year?

Progress isn't linear. Year One < Year Two < Year Three < Year Four < Year Five < Year Six < Year Seven
Doesn't work that way.

Virginia/North Carolina/Texas Tech/Michigan State/Purdue/many others will all finish lower this year than last. None of them forgot how to coach. Not trying to compare us to them. Clearly their peaks have been higher than ours.
 

Fan of Ray Christensen said:
For my money, Fleck highlights Pitino's biggest shortcoming: the apparent lack of situational coaching. I don't see basketball players who "choke," I see players who have been poorly prepared at how to execute during crunch time. Players who don't attack the full-court press that everyone knows is coming, instead they simply try to survive the press.

Fleck on the other hand, has made a point of working on situational football: short-yardage plays, 3rd-and-long plays, etc. And it shows, his players don't choke, they execute in those situations, because they've been prepared to do it.

I think the U can do better.
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What are your three biggest free throw tips?
Please call Coach Pitino. I think you could still help!
 

golfing18now said:
What did you think they would finish this year?

Progress isn't linear. Year One < Year Two < Year Three < Year Four < Year Five < Year Six < Year Seven
Doesn't work that way.

Virginia/North Carolina/Texas Tech/Michigan State/Purdue/many others will all finish lower this year than last. None of them forgot how to coach. Not trying to compare us to them. Clearly their peaks have been higher than ours.
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I thought they would finish right where they will. Another Weakling Wednesday appearance.

You are right progress isn't linear. This program under Pitino has been up one year down the next. Treading water as another poster put it isn't progress either. We have seen enough of Pitino to know what he is a coach and what this program will be with him running it. Its time to move on.
 

scools12 said:
I thought they would finish right where they will. Another Weakling Wednesday appearance.

You are right progress isn't linear. This program under Pitino has been up one year down the next. Treading water as another poster put it isn't progress either. We have seen enough of Pitino to know what he is a coach and what this program will be with him running it. Its time to move on.
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Reasonable response. I don't have any issue with fellow posters that tactfully respond and hope for a change.
 

WriterGoph said:
GopherGangsta is the gutless one here. His screen name couldn't be more of an oxymoron. The biggest coward on this board. You literally are the Philip Nelson of the basketball board: big tough guy who comes in and kicks a guy when he is down - but didn't have the balls to say shit during a single win this season.

We all know the score on the season, but only a select few nutless wonders feel the need to take personal shots at the coach. Try some talk therapy, "Gangsta". Maybe after some breakthroughs you won't need to be such a miserable c--t belaboring the same point over and over to try and gain others' validation.
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You have issues!

Good to see you back. You've been almost invisible.
 

Ope3 said:
I do not find it hard to believe, nor would (or is) my expectation be that the Gophers make it to the NCAA Tournament every year. Why? Because only 2 teams from the Big 10 have made it for the even the past 5 years in a row and one of those (Purdue) is in solid danger of missing the out this year.

For the past 5 years here is the NCAA Tourney Breakdown:

Team / NCAA Berths - S16 (or better)
Mich St / 5 - 2
Purdue / 5 - 3
Wisconsin / 4 - 3
Michigan / 4 - 3
Maryland / 4 - 1
Ohio St / 3 - 0
Indiana / 2 - 1
Iowa / 2 - 0
Minnesota / 2 - 0
Northwestern / 1 - 0
the rest / 0 - 0

My expectation would be to make it 3 out of 5 years, at least 1 Sweet16. Do that and I would up the goals, but realistically it does not happen often and will likely be more difficult to be consistently above average with the new transfers rules, player comp, etc..
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This is pathetic. Posts like this will keep the Gophers down. Why can't we be a consistent winning program. The team to our East has and is a consistent winner and it makes me SICK to my stomach that post like this are on this site. We should be a winning program that wins the right way with good student athletes that stay out of trouble and maybe we should get some of the GOOD Minnesota high school kids to play for the Gophers. People that post this stuff should be banned. Let's have the gophers bb team make us proud consitently.
 

Ope3 said:
I do not find it hard to believe, nor would (or is) my expectation be that the Gophers make it to the NCAA Tournament every year. Why? Because only 2 teams from the Big 10 have made it for the even the past 5 years in a row and one of those (Purdue) is in solid danger of missing the out this year.

For the past 5 years here is the NCAA Tourney Breakdown:

Team / NCAA Berths - S16 (or better)
Mich St / 5 - 2
Purdue / 5 - 3
Wisconsin / 4 - 3
Michigan / 4 - 3
Maryland / 4 - 1
Ohio St / 3 - 0
Indiana / 2 - 1
Iowa / 2 - 0
Minnesota / 2 - 0
Northwestern / 1 - 0
the rest / 0 - 0

My expectation would be to make it 3 out of 5 years, at least 1 Sweet16. Do that and I would up the goals, but realistically it does not happen often and will likely be more difficult to be consistently above average with the new transfers rules, player comp, etc..
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Yeah I'm ok with that. It'd be great to change that 3 out of 5 to 4 out of 5 but alright I'll bear with ya there. The problem is the teams that aren't listed are on the up-and-up too. Rutgers, Penn St, and Nebraska with Hoiberg. This conference is only getting tougher.
 

bobmartinfan said:
This is pathetic. Posts like this will keep the Gophers down. Why can't we be a consistent winning program. The team to our East has and is a consistent winner and it makes me SICK to my stomach that post like this are on this site. We should be a winning program that wins the right way with good student athletes that stay out of trouble and maybe we should get some of the GOOD Minnesota high school kids to play for the Gophers. People that post this stuff should be banned. Let's have the gophers bb team make us proud consistently.
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It's not pathetic if you look at our past. It's a start! Right now we need to hope for Iowa level success and hopefully continue to grow. Sorry to burst your bubble with some realistic expectations.
 

Goldteam said:
You have issues!

Good to see you back. You've been almost invisible.
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No, I've been around the whole time. Just doing my best not to engage with your clown ass. You know, it's funny watching you post on the football board. It's almost like it's a different person. You know, one who's not a one-trick pony.

You should give up Gopher basketball. It's made you a total simpleton. You only know one angle and one line.

"It's okay, Lenny. Easy, Lenny. Now don't snap the neck of the rabbit, Lenny. Step away from the Gopher Basketball, Lenny. There are other things to do with your time."
 

manderson1984 said:
It's not pathetic if you look at our past. It's a start! Right now we need to hope for Iowa level success and hopefully continue to grow. Sorry to burst your bubble with some realistic expectations.
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The only thing I'd say about this is that I think a coach in college basketball can change everything. I understand the program as a whole over the past 20 years hasn't been good but it literally is all about coaching. You bring in the right guy and you could jump Iowa and Wisconsin in a couple years consistently.
This isn't in total disagreement of what you're saying, I just think a coach has that big of impact.
 

Ope3 said:
I do not find it hard to believe, nor would (or is) my expectation be that the Gophers make it to the NCAA Tournament every year. Why? Because only 2 teams from the Big 10 have made it for the even the past 5 years in a row and one of those (Purdue) is in solid danger of missing the out this year.

For the past 5 years here is the NCAA Tourney Breakdown:

Team / NCAA Berths - S16 (or better)
Mich St / 5 - 2
Purdue / 5 - 3
Wisconsin / 4 - 3
Michigan / 4 - 3
Maryland / 4 - 1
Ohio St / 3 - 0
Indiana / 2 - 1
Iowa / 2 - 0
Minnesota / 2 - 0
Northwestern / 1 - 0
the rest / 0 - 0

My expectation would be to make it 3 out of 5 years, at least 1 Sweet16. Do that and I would up the goals, but realistically it does not happen often and will likely be more difficult to be consistently above average with the new transfers rules, player comp, etc..
Click to expand...

Win in conference first and tourney success will come. It's just such a crapshoot. Last years champion was the first one seed to lose the year before. Conference success and tourney births is something that be graded more fairly imo. Thank you for your reasonable post, so people think we should be like Villanova or Michigan State right away and that's just crazy and actually pretty disrespectful to their coaches for the time it took them to build it.
 

skiumah1 said:
The only thing I'd say about this is that I think a coach in college basketball can change everything. I understand the program as a whole over the past 20 years hasn't been good but it literally is all about coaching. You bring in the right guy and you could jump Iowa and Wisconsin in a couple years consistently.
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Agree 100% as long as the program is supported by the AD and Admin, which I believe it is now.
 

bobmartinfan said:
This is pathetic. Posts like this will keep the Gophers down. Why can't we be a consistent winning program. The team to our East has and is a consistent winner and it makes me SICK to my stomach that post like this are on this site. We should be a winning program that wins the right way with good student athletes that stay out of trouble and maybe we should get some of the GOOD Minnesota high school kids to play for the Gophers. People that post this stuff should be banned. Let's have the gophers bb team make us proud consitently.
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1. You should try punctuation. It would make your garbled stream of conciousness much easier to read.

2. I'm pretty sure Amir Coffey and Daniel Oturu are "GOOD Minnesota high school kids". One is in the NBA now and the other is about to become a first-round pick. You were saying?
 

bga1 said:
Last year's team was 9-11

In a poll on this site 50% said 9 wins or less
Another 39% thought 10-11 wins


When asked the question if this team could be better than last year- you and most here said no. See for yourself.
I chose 10-11 wins. Obviously we have lost the close games it would have taken to do that.

Blue Ribbon had us 11th
BT Powerhouse had us 12th
Big Ten media poll had us 11th
CBS had us 11th
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We suck. But we were expected to suck! Four more years!

IMO, Pitino had to get an A either in recruiting or on the court to buy himself more time. He did neither. I'd give him a C on both fronts. Is this season worse than expected? Only a little. But it's not better. Did he outperform expectations with the Fall recruits? No. So we see little to no progress on either front, and that's from a meh starting point. A month ago he had a chance to get the on court A. He's failed.
 

manderson1984 said:
Win in conference first and tourney success will come. It's just such a crapshoot. Last years champion was the first one seed to lose the year before. Conference success and tourney births is something that be graded more fairly imo. Thank you for your reasonable post, so people think we should be like Villanova or Michigan State right away and that's just crazy and actually pretty disrespectful to their coaches for the time it took them to build it.
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I would add on to this that though that comparison to those teams isn't fair right now, it is important to realize that coaches can come in and completely change a program. Tony Bennett made Virginia. Chris Beard at Texas Tech. Greg Marshall at Wichita St. to a lesser extent. Brad Stevens at Butler obviously. Then as you're talking about with Jay Wright and Tom Izzo. Like you said though it does take time. Just need to find that guy as were talking about in the other post. I got the faith in Coyle.
 

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