Anybody listen to KFAN postgame?

I HATE to say it, but I agree with KFAN

Off Tackle Empire had a good article on the spread and its sustainability within the Big Ten over the summer.

Little in the Brewster era frustrated me more than seeing third down and short distance situations lined up in a shotgun formation and four receivers split wide. I didn't shed tears over Dunbar's departure, that is for sure.

I just don't care for the spread in this conference. I just don't find myself envious of the purer spread teams in conference. Yes, Indiana has perhaps competed better since it installed the spread, and Illinois had its oh-too-brief moment of glory. But they have hardly sustained success. Joe Tiller, who initially ran systems most similar to what many associate with the prototypical spread (wide open passing attacks predicated on a mobile quarterback and 4 or 5 receiver sets), saw progressively decreasing returns in his long career. Meanwhile Iowa and Wisconsin, our arch-rivals and closest analogs in conference in terms of home demographics and recruiting access, have put together long periods of being in the top third of the conference while emphasizing the power running game. Wisconsin in particular went from a cellar dweller to being relevant for going on 20 years while carving a niche in 'dinosaur' offenses.

'Basketball on grass' is dying in this league. Northwestern's coaching staff is talking about its run game, if not demonstrating it. Indiana has gone to the pistol formation to give it some running potency with some increased success, and Purdue has done much to reemphasize the running game (except for keeping backs healthy) under Hope. A spread option running game might be something I would be open to like Oregon, Georgia Tech [Paul Johnson fan for life, even if they are proving my anti-spread sentiments this year] or Michigan. Perhaps a similar system would have been a smoother transition from the Mason/Mitch Browning era offense.

Of the two 'spread advocate' names thrown around the most on this board, Mike Leach and Kevin Sumlin, I want nothing to do with either. Not even addressing the carts of baggage that Leach drags with him, both he and Sumlin ran/run systems that scream 'unsustainable in Minnesota'. Perpetually empty backfields and using shovel passes and quick routes in replacing the run is just not an experiment I am interested in reliving up here. Much of the offensive production of Texas Tech and Houston, furthermore, has been garnished using recruits who aren't likely to end up at Minnesota, be it for our distance from the Texas heartland or our stricter recruiting standards. If these don't scream 'Wacker's Wacky Adventure : part deux!' I don't know what does. Further our young offensive lineman, the element of the offense hardest to steer towards a new course developmentally, has clearly been recruited with run blocking in mind not a two point stance. Flushing their potential away now seems like a guarantee of more heartbreak in the next half decade.

Am I open to seeing spread elements in the offense? Yes. Especially in cases where personnel dictate its wisdom (see Terrell Pryor and SweaterVest). But to see it in the pure passing forms seen in Houston, Texas Tech, late '90's Purdue, etc. This isn't something I want to sign on for.
 

KFAN doesn't have anyone that knows college football on their post game show? I don't know about you, but I guess I trust Justin Conzemius knows college football. His credentials as a player speak a lot louder than many of the people who post on this site. In my opinion, he is credible in his critique.
 

If I want to watch basketball, I will. Give me 3 yards and a cloud of dust anyday and twice on Saturday.
 

Thaileagle doesn't like numbers or statistics. He prefers to give his opinions without any basis whatsoever.

If that were the case then Brewster wouldn't be a disaster like many (including me) could see from the beginning...
 

I turned on WCCO yesterday, and Sid was saying that the reason the Gophers had problems was that the entrance requirements were too high. He said that we have higher admissions requirements than half of the Big Ten, but even if true, that would make us average for the Big Ten. He claimed that Purdue had lower entrance requirements, and that Northwestern "found ways" to get marginal student athletes admitted.
 


Personally, I just hate the spread. I hate watching spread teams.

But aside from my personal view, keep in mind that you have to recruit speed in order to have a great spread offense, and the big ten isn't known for it's speed like the SEC. And the Gophers in particular don't get elite ahtletes.

To make a spread work, you need a good quarterback and 3 or 4 good receivers. But with Mason's run offense, we were able to succeed with one or two great backs and a mediocre quarterback. We were also able to make due with smaller offensive lineman who were good in a zone blocking scheme, but who were not highly ranked national recruits. So we were able to recruit the guys we needed to win. If only he could have done just a bit better in the passing game and on defense. But we were a lot closer with Glen Mason than we are now.

Who runs the spread offense?

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ESPN.com

The spread offense is seemingly reaching new heights each season. Below is a list of schools that run the spread or a version of the spread at least 75 percent of time.

ACC
Clemson: Spread
Georgia Tech: Triple-option spread
Virginia: Spread

Big 12
Baylor: Spread passing offense
Iowa State: Spread passing offense
Kansas: Spread passing offense
Missouri: Spread passing offense
Oklahoma State: Spread passing offense
Texas: Spread passing offense
Texas Tech: Air Raid passing offense

Big East
Cincinnati: Spread
South Florida: Spread
West Virginia: Spread option

Big Ten
Illinois: Multiple spread
Indiana: Multiple spread
Michigan: Spread option
Northwestern: Multiple spread
Penn State: Spread HD
Purdue: Shotgun spread

Conference USA
Houston: Spread
Memphis: Spread
SMU: Run and shoot
Southern Miss: Spread
Tulsa: Spread

MAC
Akron: Spread/Multiple
Central Michigan: Spread
Kent State: Spread
Toledo: Spread

Mountain West
BYU: Spread
UNLV: Spread
Utah: Spread
Wyoming: Spread

Pac-10
Arizona: Air Raid passing offense
Oregon: Spread option

SEC
Auburn: Multiple spread
Florida: Spread option
Mississippi State: Spread option
Vanderbilt: Multiple spread

Sun Belt
Arkansas State: Spread option
Louisiana-Lafayette: Spread option
Louisiana-Monroe: Spread option
Middle Tennessee: Spread pass
North Texas: Spread pass
Troy: Spread pass
WKU: Spread option

WAC
Hawaii: Run and shoot
Nevada: Pistol
Utah State: Spread

Looking at this more Big Ten teams run the spread than the SEC. Northwestern isn't a fast team and never has any WR that go on to the NFL. You are also taking about a Spread passing team when you make your claims. I think most people hear the word spread and think Texas Tech which runs the Air Raid spread.
Ulfr you make a few good points and actually give reasons why the pass spread might not work here. I can understand why you don't think an Air Raid offense would not work. I just want a coach (OC or Head Coach) that knows how to run an offense and just isn't throwing stuff together. I agree with EG#9.and his 5 points of light.
 

KFAN doesn't have anyone that knows college football on their post game show? I don't know about you, but I guess I trust Justin Conzemius knows college football. His credentials as a player speak a lot louder than many of the people who post on this site. In my opinion, he is credible in his critique.

Here are some excepts from a post early last month. I think he needs to step up his cred quite a bit.

these are not exact quotes

"Tommy Olson will be starting at LT against MTSU"

"Matt Garmin will be starting at DE"

"Adam Weber will make an NFL roster and be a #3/#4 QB in the league for years."

"Moses Alipate should be the #2 QB."

"MarQueis Gray can't be an NFL QB, because tall QBs don't succeed in the NFL."

"Said NW has as many RoseBowl wins as the U of M, zero. Cripes. this guy played for the U."
 

If so many teams are running the spread, then perhaps if we run the spread too, we'll just be competing for the same pool of athletes. Maybe a different offense would let us have first pick of athletes with a different skill set.

In any case, I am ***FAR*** more concerned about defense. Pick an offense by all means, just get a defense here!
 

The biggest problem I found with the spread the gophers ran a few years ago was the pressure it put on their defense.
 



2007 with players not recruited to run the spread:
48th in the country in total offense

2008:
91st in the country

2009:
109th in the country
 

Off Tackle Empire had a good article on the spread and its sustainability within the Big Ten over the summer.

Little in the Brewster era frustrated me more than seeing third down and short distance situations lined up in a shotgun formation and four receivers split wide. I didn't shed tears over Dunbar's departure, that is for sure.

I just don't care for the spread in this conference. I just don't find myself envious of the purer spread teams in conference. Yes, Indiana has perhaps competed better since it installed the spread, and Illinois had its oh-too-brief moment of glory. But they have hardly sustained success. Joe Tiller, who initially ran systems most similar to what many associate with the prototypical spread (wide open passing attacks predicated on a mobile quarterback and 4 or 5 receiver sets), saw progressively decreasing returns in his long career. Meanwhile Iowa and Wisconsin, our arch-rivals and closest analogs in conference in terms of home demographics and recruiting access, have put together long periods of being in the top third of the conference while emphasizing the power running game. Wisconsin in particular went from a cellar dweller to being relevant for going on 20 years while carving a niche in 'dinosaur' offenses.

'Basketball on grass' is dying in this league. Northwestern's coaching staff is talking about its run game, if not demonstrating it. Indiana has gone to the pistol formation to give it some running potency with some increased success, and Purdue has done much to reemphasize the running game (except for keeping backs healthy) under Hope. A spread option running game might be something I would be open to like Oregon, Georgia Tech [Paul Johnson fan for life, even if they are proving my anti-spread sentiments this year] or Michigan. Perhaps a similar system would have been a smoother transition from the Mason/Mitch Browning era offense.

Of the two 'spread advocate' names thrown around the most on this board, Mike Leach and Kevin Sumlin, I want nothing to do with either. Not even addressing the carts of baggage that Leach drags with him, both he and Sumlin ran/run systems that scream 'unsustainable in Minnesota'. Perpetually empty backfields and using shovel passes and quick routes in replacing the run is just not an experiment I am interested in reliving up here. Much of the offensive production of Texas Tech and Houston, furthermore, has been garnished using recruits who aren't likely to end up at Minnesota, be it for our distance from the Texas heartland or our stricter recruiting standards. If these don't scream 'Wacker's Wacky Adventure : part deux!' I don't know what does. Further our young offensive lineman, the element of the offense hardest to steer towards a new course developmentally, has clearly been recruited with run blocking in mind not a two point stance. Flushing their potential away now seems like a guarantee of more heartbreak in the next half decade.

Am I open to seeing spread elements in the offense? Yes. Especially in cases where personnel dictate its wisdom (see Terrell Pryor and SweaterVest). But to see it in the pure passing forms seen in Houston, Texas Tech, late '90's Purdue, etc. This isn't something I want to sign on for.

I browsed the article and the author does a good job of giving both view points. However, I disagree with the whole weather argument. College football is played in the fall not winter months. How many games last year did we have bad weather for? Penn State because of a fluke snow storm? Oh wait, by game time the snow had stopped and the field was clear. Teams don't design an offense for a whole season around a possible windy day in November. Just ask the Packers and Bears how much they worry about running the ball.
 

The one thing I especially do not like about the spread is that it really puts a burden on your defense. Even though Northwestern outgained us by over 100 yards, we still had the ball longer than them. I wouldn't mind running a version of the spread, but wouldn't want to run it most of the time.
 

So we run the spread? Only it is spread butter on the hands of our receivers and feet of our DBs??
 



The one thing I especially do not like about the spread is that it really puts a burden on your defense. Even though Northwestern outgained us by over 100 yards, we still had the ball longer than them. I wouldn't mind running a version of the spread, but wouldn't want to run it most of the time.

Wow, we had the ball longer for 38 more seconds! Northwestern also runs a hurry up offense. The spread doesn't require you to run hurry up.
 

The point has already been made in this thread, but here it is again. It doesn't matter what offense you run, as long as you run it well.
 

We didn't try the spread. If you want to call players recruited to run Mason's cut blocking scheme and play action scheme running the spread for 2 years "trying the spread" I guess we have. Brewster's biggest flaw offensively was buying into the media hype that he needed to change systems. We never once ran the spread with players recruited to run the spread (and our offense got worse, not better, when we left the spread system behind). We ran the spread for 2 years, and then Brewster abandoned it before you could even see if it would have worked here.

Well that's the whole point. Any team can run the spread with success assuming they put the true and honest effort forth into installing that offense and stick with it throughout its growing pains, but we didn't do that. We half-assed it and abandoned 'the spread' (or our iteration of it) before that offense could ever even have a chance at success, and that's all on Tim Brewster and his staff.

So yes, there's no reason why we can't run it with success, assuming we commit to it fully and stick to it rather than jibble-jabbling around and changing systems every other year. That's what's so discouraging and frustrating. I really wish this staff would show some balls.
 

If Brewster could have gotten LMJ and some of the quickie WR they were after a few years ago the spread may still be alive. They bailed when they didn't think they could get the athletes to run it. IMHO that is bogus though, you don't need speed from the south to run the spread, you need an accurate passer with sure handed WR and lots of WR that can keep running all day long.
 

We probably shouldn't have moved to the spread in the first place, it was too radical a change. But having made that radical switch once, we should have stuck with it, instead of starting everything all over again with a whole new system.
 

Wow, we had the ball longer for 38 more seconds! Northwestern also runs a hurry up offense. The spread doesn't require you to run hurry up.

They racked up almost 500 yards of offense and still had the ball less than us. I understand they ran the no huddle though.

However, if you look at the TOP leaders in the last few years, a majority of them do not run the spread. Then look at the teams at the bottom of TOP. A lot of them run the spread.

Therefore, in general, a spread offense will put more pressure on your defense than a more conventional offense.
 

Wow, we had the ball longer for 38 more seconds! Northwestern also runs a hurry up offense. The spread doesn't require you to run hurry up.

Agree. I also think time of possesion stats are pointless with this particular team when all of our opponents score as quickly as they do. Winning that battle matters when we win and can keep the defense off the field, but I don't see it as a silver lining this year. I can't imagine any of our remaining opponents will try to hold the ball to keep our powerful offense off the field. They will score quickly and score often, and we'll try to control the clock to avoid blowouts.
 

Let's get real with our commitment back to a rushing attack that includes pulling and cutting.


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Agree. I also think time of possesion stats are pointless with this particular team when all of our opponents score as quickly as they do. Winning that battle matters when we win and can keep the defense off the field, but I don't see it as a silver lining this year. I can't imagine any of our remaining opponents will try to hold the ball to keep our powerful offense off the field. They will score quickly and score often, and we'll try to control the clock to avoid blowouts.

Right now we are #2 in the nation behind Army in TOP. Alabama #72. If we have to protect our defense every year we are going to suck. Why do we allows focus on offense? Clearly our biggest problem the last half century is defense. Give me a good defense, a solid QB and a great Oline anytime over having a few great skill players.
 


Right now we are #2 in the nation behind Army in TOP. Alabama #72. If we have to protect our defense every year we are going to suck. Why do we allows focus on offense? Clearly our biggest problem the last half century is defense. Give me a good defense, a solid QB and a great Oline anytime over having a few great skill players.[/QUOTE]

I want a good D, a solid QB, a great OLine, and some great skill players. We're average to below average in every category right now.
 

I don't really understand the notion that certain players are more likely to succeed in the spread vs. other players, there seems to be a variety of different kinds of players who find success running the spread. About the only constant is a QB who has decent running ability. Just look at some of the most succesful players on different spread teams over the past few years.

Qb's like the Pat White's and Denard Robinson's have been succesful, yet, powerful runners like Tebow and Cameron Newton excelled in the spread. For every smaller quick (LMJ, S. Slayton, J. Demps) there are guys like L. Blount and Evan Royster (larger RBs).

My point isn't that I love the spread, it's simply that blanket statements about which players fit and don't fit the spread is kind of crazy. The spread is way too broad of a term. Auburn is an enormous football team, while West Virginia was built on speed. Because most players can find success somewhere in the spread, I really don't understand the demographics argument.
 

I don't really understand the notion that certain players are more likely to succeed in the spread vs. other players, there seems to be a variety of different kinds of players who find success running the spread. About the only constant is a QB who has decent running ability. Just look at some of the most succesful players on different spread teams over the past few years.

Qb's like the Pat White's and Denard Robinson's have been succesful, yet, powerful runners like Tebow and Cameron Newton excelled in the spread. For every smaller quick (LMJ, S. Slayton, J. Demps) there are guys like L. Blount and Evan Royster (larger RBs).

My point isn't that I love the spread, it's simply that blanket statements about which players fit and don't fit the spread is kind of crazy. The spread is way too broad of a term. Auburn is an enormous football team, while West Virginia was built on speed. Because most players can find success somewhere in the spread, I really don't understand the demographics argument.


First of all you have to define what is the spread offense. Are Auburn or Penn State really running the spread? Or are they adding some elements to their offense which we associate with the spread like the zone read or multiple receiver sets? The 'Spread HD' was perhaps the most pro set heavy spread offense in the nation, and I am not saying that was a bad thing. Ohio State put on a clinic on running plays associated with the Spread against the Gophers last season and I wouldn't consider them a "spread team".

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As toward a certain type of player succeeding in one system versus the other I couldn't disagree more. Running backs and wide receivers certainly offer the greatest versatility between systems, but they are exceptions. The quarterbacks we have behind Gray all seem to be of the traditional drop-back-and-pass variety and don't look like they are going to be viable options for running a zone read 15 times a game. And the real personnel you should be considering and didn't mention is the offensive line. Part of our putrid performance from the line of late certainly can be linked to Brewster not really emphasizing line play in either his early recruiting or his early coaching. Now we have a bunch of young linemen we have recently recruited or have committed for this cycle who are more suited for run blocking and a pro-set offense or at least a hybrid offense that incorporates spread and pro elements. Trying to change the line's identity to a spread system is only further delaying success.

As towards demographics, Wisconsin under Alvarez chose a power running scheme acknowledging that large powerful linemen were something that Wisconsin had easier access to in the upper midwest. I would add to that quality quarterbacks who more closely fit in the traditional pocket passing mold.


And if we are going to go get a 'spread coach' are we going to get a hybrid or option-run orientated coach? Probably not. We will be back to Dunbar-esque single-back shotgun set ad nausea. In the end I am saying that people in the conference are backing away from pass heavy offenses that resemble the Leach 'Air Raid' for a reason. I don't think pursuing a Kevin Sumlin type [to name the most realistic candidate who is a spread practitioner (and horrible defensive coach fwiw)] who primarily has experience in a passing-oriented offense is in Minnesota's interest.
 

KFAN doesn't have anyone that knows college football on their post game show? I don't know about you, but I guess I trust Justin Conzemius knows college football. His credentials as a player speak a lot louder than many of the people who post on this site. In my opinion, he is credible in his critique.

He knows his X's and O's. He doesn't know anything about the politics of college football. He doesn't know anything about winning football. I would guess 90% of high school football coaches in MN could speak more intelligently than JC on how MN needs to go about building a winning football program.
 

First of all you have to define what is the spread offense. Are Auburn or Penn State really running the spread? Or are they adding some elements to their offense which we associate with the spread like the zone read or multiple receiver sets? The 'Spread HD' was perhaps the most pro set heavy spread offense in the nation, and I am not saying that was a bad thing. Ohio State put on a clinic on running plays associated with the Spread against the Gophers last season and I wouldn't consider them a "spread team".

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As toward a certain type of player succeeding in one system versus the other I couldn't disagree more. Running backs and wide receivers certainly offer the greatest versatility between systems, but they are exceptions. The quarterbacks we have behind Gray all seem to be of the traditional drop-back-and-pass variety and don't look like they are going to be viable options for running a zone read 15 times a game. And the real personnel you should be considering and didn't mention is the offensive line. Part of our putrid performance from the line of late certainly can be linked to Brewster not really emphasizing line play in either his early recruiting or his early coaching. Now we have a bunch of young linemen we have recently recruited or have committed for this cycle who are more suited for run blocking and a pro-set offense or at least a hybrid offense that incorporates spread and pro elements. Trying to change the line's identity to a spread system is only further delaying success.

As towards demographics, Wisconsin under Alvarez chose a power running scheme acknowledging that large powerful linemen were something that Wisconsin had easier access to in the upper midwest. I would add to that quality quarterbacks who more closely fit in the traditional pocket passing mold.


And if we are going to go get a 'spread coach' are we going to get a hybrid or option-run orientated coach? Probably not. We will be back to Dunbar-esque single-back shotgun set ad nausea. In the end I am saying that people in the conference are backing away from pass heavy offenses that resemble the Leach 'Air Raid' for a reason. I don't think pursuing a Kevin Sumlin type [to name the most realistic candidate who is a spread practitioner (and horrible defensive coach fwiw)] who primarily has experience in a passing-oriented offense is in Minnesota's interest.

A few things things

1) You don't have to run zone read 15 times a game in the spread. There are many different versions.
2) Adam Weber ran zone read his freshman year, so if you don't think QBs 2-5 on the roster are as athletic as him, you didn't watch the spring game.
3) Why would pass happy offense not work in the Big Ten? It took Purdue from irrelevance to Big Ten title in the late 90s-2000
4) If you watch Ohio State this year, you will see they are at least 50% spread.
 

I don't mind the KFAN Gopher Post Game show. What I really enjoy is that the callers confuse the show with Barrieo's and all start out with a smart a$$ comment and the hosts respond to the callers humor with silence. The caller then becomes confused that it he/she isn't funny and goes into a Brewster/Weber rant.

Gaardsy and the other guy do a great job at hosting that show! I loved how they left Skipper out on an island.
 

Gray in pro or power

Anyone that wants gray to play right now is going to be very dissapointed to realize that he will be inept in a pro or power offense, the player that has everyone so excited was recruited to an option spread or zone read spread offense, Gray in power is going to get ugly
 




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