Antoine Winfield cleared of any wrong doing!!

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The hearing results show it isn't a kangaroo court. We will see what happens with the appeals process.

Is this correct?

Can appeal decision to the provost first?


Then can appeal to federal court?
 

MissouriGopher said:
I don't understand your point. There was no success rate. The EOAA presented their findings and recommendations and the disciplinary committee made the final decision. Did you fail when you recommended Mexican for dinner but your wife decided to stay in?
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Nope. The EOAA findings were essentially the starting point unless overturned. It is the equivalent of guilty until proven innocent. Everyone should have an issue with that. Not sure why some don't.


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MissouriGopher said:
I don't understand your point. There was no success rate. The EOAA presented their findings and recommendations and the disciplinary committee made the final decision. Did you fail when you recommended Mexican for dinner but your wife decided to stay in?
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Uh, yeah. If the goal was to find the true place we wanted to eat, yes I did. When an appeal is granted, the party that is appealing considers their appeal 'successful'. The converse is also true.

This illustrates the problem with the low burden of proof threshold. The appeals panel, when confronted with full arguments from both sides concluded that 4 of the cases couldn't even get to 50%. And in another they felt the wrong punishment was reached. That's appalling when you consider the stakes.
 

tato2001 said:
It would if 50% of decisions were overturned. As happened here.
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There was no prior decisions. This was a hearing and not an appeal of a prior decision. The EOAA made a recommendation only. The did an investigation and the hearing officers were only persuaded that six of the players violated the Student Code of Conduct. The EOAA did their job and so did the hearing officers (whoever they were). Any appeals will happen now.
 

rugger14 said:
The hearing results show it isn't a kangaroo court. We will see what happens with the appeals process.

Is this correct?

Can appeal decision to the provost first?


Then can appeal to federal court?
Click to expand...

The appeals process shows it was most definitely a kangaroo court. The EOAA findings were overturned 50% of the time when both parties were able to present their cases. That is appalling.
 


Spoofin said:
Nope. The EOAA findings were essentially the starting point unless overturned. It is the equivalent of guilty until proven innocent. Everyone should have an issue with that. Not sure why some don't.


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You must hate the criminal court system then! Did you know prosecutors start with their own recommendation for punishment and then the system determines if they're right? Do you get upset when a prosecutor pushes for a murder charge and the jury recommends manslaughter?
 

tato2001 said:
^Four cleared, one punishment reduced per Doogie, apparently. 5 upheld. An atrocious success rate.
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Um ... "success rate?" If you weren't totally hysterical on one side or the other, this was pretty much what most people expected. For about the 10th time, this wasn't a black and white case. There was a hell of a lot of gray area between all 10 guilty of whatever or all 10 innocent and getting railroaded by fascists and communists and femi-Nazis.

As for being Googled in 20 years and coming up a rapist? Okay, but if that's as far as some idiot goes, it basically doesn't matter. Anybody whose opinion you value or is important will also see you were cleared. Hopefully, they've done enough with their lives that this is buried way done.

Not total justice, but I'm not going to be outraged. All the U did was announce these players would not be playing in the bowl game. Whoever leaked the report and their teammates who demanded all 10 be allowed to play or they were boycotting bear much of the responsibility for everyone being painted with the same sexual assault brush.
 

MissouriGopher said:
You must hate the criminal court system then! Did you know prosecutors start with their own recommendation for punishment and then the system determines if they're right? Do you get upset when a prosecutor pushes for a murder charge and the jury recommends manslaughter?
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I "must"? You're getting defensive...
 




Mulligan said:
Um ... "success rate?" If you weren't totally hysterical on one side or the other, this was pretty much what most people expected. For about the 10th time, this wasn't a black and white case. There was a hell of a lot of gray area between all 10 guilty of whatever or all 10 innocent and getting railroaded by fascists and communists and femi-Nazis.

As for being Googled in 20 years and coming up a rapist? Okay, but if that's as far as some idiot goes, it basically doesn't matter. Anybody whose opinion you value or is important will also see you were cleared. Hopefully, they've done enough with their lives that this is buried way done.

Not total justice, but I'm not going to be outraged. All the U did was announce these players would not be playing in the bowl game. Whoever leaked the report and their teammates who demanded all 10 be allowed to play or they were boycotting bear much of the responsibility for everyone being painted with the same sexual assault brush.
Click to expand...

yup, well said
 

Mulligan said:
Um ... "success rate?" If you weren't totally hysterical on one side or the other, this was pretty much what most people expected. For about the 10th time, this wasn't a black and white case. There was a hell of a lot of gray area between all 10 guilty of whatever or all 10 innocent and getting railroaded by fascists and communists and femi-Nazis.

As for being Googled in 20 years and coming up a rapist? Okay, but if that's as far as some idiot goes, it basically doesn't matter. Anybody whose opinion you value or is important will also see you were cleared. Hopefully, they've done enough with their lives that this is buried way done.

Not total justice, but I'm not going to be outraged. All the U did was announce these players would not be playing in the bowl game. Whoever leaked the report and their teammates who demanded all 10 be allowed to play or they were boycotting bear much of the responsibility for everyone being painted with the same sexual assault brush.
Click to expand...

It's exactly what I expected as well: the EOAA's findings and reccomendations would be found to be wrong a high percentage of the time. If you don't see this as an indictment of that process I don't know what to tell you.

Many (almost all?) folks in this situation won't have the resources/publicity to bring a professional defense to the appeals process (there's no 'public defender' here...). They will likely be subject to the EOAA decision that we now know was overruled in 50% of the cases we know the outcomes too. That is a big problem.
 


UpnorthGo4 said:
There was no prior decisions. This was a hearing and not an appeal of a prior decision. The EOAA made a recommendation only. The did an investigation and the hearing officers were only persuaded that six of the players violated the Student Code of Conduct. The EOAA did their job and so did the hearing officers (whoever they were). Any appeals will happen now.
Click to expand...

Go read the cover letter. Absent a request for a formal hearing, " then the decision will stand." Right there in the letter, go read it.
 



tato2001 said:
Just a little friendly advice: when you start telling people what they "must" think, it sounds a bit ad hominem and, yes, defensive. :)
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No it doesn't. You just took it that way because you're very argumentative.

Word of advice: Look at who I'm replying to before commenting or you look confused and angry. More advice: Citing logical fallacies incorrectly makes you look pretentious, unable to defend your argument, and, yes, confused. The one you were looking for was "strawman".
 

tato2001 said:
Just a little friendly advice: when you start telling people what they "must" think, it sounds a bit ad hominem and, yes, defensive. :)
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Apparently, you don't spend much time on message board. Ad hominem is a way of life in GopherHole. If I had a dollar for every time I have been called a Nazi or a racist in GopherHole I would have a lot of money. Unlike PJ you are never going to change the culture.
 

MissouriGopher said:
I don't understand your point. There was no success rate. The EOAA presented their findings and recommendations and the disciplinary committee made the final decision. Did you fail when you recommended Mexican for dinner but your wife decided to stay in?
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Depends. Are we making tacos? If she's cooking while I drink a beer and watch the game I call that a win
 

Now that we have an idea of who we have for 2017 and who we don't have. Someone should put together a new defensive backfield 2 deep position chart.
 

rugger14 said:
The hearing results show it isn't a kangaroo court. We will see what happens with the appeals process.

Is this correct?

Can appeal decision to the provost first?


Then can appeal to federal court?
Click to expand...

Maybe but there is also the nagging feeling that if many things that went on wth the investigation didn't become public, would they just have gone ahead and expelled and suspended all 10 of the players?
 

Stuff said:
Now that we have an idea of who we have for 2017 and who we don't have. Someone should put together a new defensive backfield 2 deep position chart.
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Too soon...
 

MissouriGopher said:
No it doesn't. You just took it that way because you're very argumentative.

Word of advice: Look at who I'm replying to before commenting or you look confused and angry. More advice: Citing logical fallacies incorrectly makes you look pretentious, unable to defend your argument, and, yes, confused. The one you were looking for was "strawman".
Click to expand...

Very big of you to acknowledge your logical fallacy!
 


PMWinSTP said:
Go read the cover letter. Absent a request for a formal hearing, " then the decision will stand." Right there in the letter, go read it.
Click to expand...

He can read it, but he already knows what he will believe. He makes a conclusion and that is the narrative.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

UpnorthGo4 said:
Apparently, you don't spend much time on message board. Ad hominem is a way of life in GopherHole. If I had a dollar for every time I have been called a Nazi or a racist in GopherHole I would have a lot of money. Unlike PJ you are never going to change the culture.
Click to expand...

Where there's smoke there's fire


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Iceland12 said:
Maybe but there is also the nagging feeling that if many things that went on wth the investigation didn't become public, would they just have gone ahead and expelled and suspended all 10 of the players?
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Yes, Kaler would have suspended the players pending the outcome of the hearings. He has the right to that in the Student Code of Conduct disciplinary procedures. Most schools give their president that right. I have posted those procedures at least 10 times but very few GopherHolers read them. It is all there. You just have to google it.
 

UpnorthGo4 said:
Yes, Kaler would have suspended the players pending the outcome of the hearings. He has the right in the Student Code of Conduct disciplinary procedures. I have posted those procedures at least 10 times but very few GopherHolers have read them. It is all there. You just have to google it.
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you mean i can't rely on the gopherhole echo chamber? next you will tell me that due process can be provided outside of a court of law.
 

UpnorthGo4 said:
Yes, Kaler would have suspended the players pending the outcome of the hearings. He has the right in the Student Code of Conduct disciplinary procedures. I have posted those procedures at least 10 times but very few GopherHolers have read them. It is all there. You just have to google it.
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But of course that wasn't what I said now was it?

But here's your response you click whore you! :cool03:
 

Stuff said:
Now that we have an idea of who we have for 2017 and who we don't have. Someone should put together a new defensive backfield 2 deep position chart.
Click to expand...

Dude, I seriously can't read one of your posts without cracking up at your avatar. You're my hero!
 

Gogogopher said:
so 5 have been cleared now? that would be great news!
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"As of now, they're on Double Secret Probation. There is a little known codicil in the Faber College Constitution which gives the Dean unlimited power to preserve order in time of campus emergency."...Dean Vernon Wormer
 

rugger14 said:
The hearing results show it isn't a kangaroo court. We will see what happens with the appeals process.

Is this correct?

Can appeal decision to the provost first?


Then can appeal to federal court?
Click to expand...

Wrong.
 


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