Andy Katz: This could turn out to be Tubby Smith’s best coaching job if he gets a bid

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"1. Minnesota isn’t dead on arrival for a bid. Neither is Northwestern. Sunday’s results changed their season. Minnesota, which won a road game at Nebraska, is 5-6 and has a stretch with four of the next five games at home against Wisconsin, Ohio State, Michigan State and Indiana, all wrapped around a road game at Northwestern. All four of those home games are against teams destined for the NCAA tournament. This could turn out to be Tubby Smith’s best coaching job if he gets a bid without Trevor Mbakwe. Meanwhile, the Wildcats won at Illinois on Sunday. Northwestern doesn’t have as advantageous a schedule but there are opportunities against Michigan and Ohio State at home."

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebask...20/3-point-shot-gophers-wildcats-on-the-brink

Go Gophers!!
 

Though these teams have a little more talent but if you took Draymond Green from MSU, or Anthony Davis from UK, Cody Zeller from Indiana those teams would have a lot harder time winning games. I think if you get to 8 wins it's a great coaching job, but 9 wins is certainly possible. I just don't see Wisconsin as being all that good. They certainly are beatable at home and on the road
 

the reasoning in that article is exactly why Tubby doesn't seem to mind a bunch of 2 and 3 star kids on his teams. It seems to me that he would rather be known as a coach that can get results from lesser known kids than a coach who might underachieve with great players. This might stem from feeling like he didn't get enough credit for the National Championship because they weren't his players. (amateur psychology hour is now over
 

Minnesconsin fan said:
the reasoning in that article is exactly why Tubby doesn't seem to mind a bunch of 2 and 3 star kids on his teams. It seems to me that he would rather be known as a coach that can get results from lesser known kids than a coach who might underachieve with great players. This might stem from feeling like he didn't get enough credit for the National Championship because they weren't his players. (amateur psychology hour is now over
You have got to be kidding!
 

the reasoning in that article is exactly why Tubby doesn't seem to mind a bunch of 2 and 3 star kids on his teams. It seems to me that he would rather be known as a coach that can get results from lesser known kids than a coach who might underachieve with great players. This might stem from feeling like he didn't get enough credit for the National Championship because they weren't his players. (amateur psychology hour is now over
I'll chop off my nose to spite my face? Sorry my friend, can't buy into it. Coaches like good players. Makes it soooooo much easier to be a good coach.
 


I'll chop off my nose to spite my face? Sorry my friend, can't buy into it. Coaches like good players. Makes it soooooo much easier to be a good coach.

I would buy that a coach would rather have less rated players who fit there system than higher rated players who they need to fit their system to or who have an attitude that makes them a liability in the locker room, but not that they want weaker players so that their wins will look more impressive.

I guess my point is, there are reasons why a specific 3 star recruit might be a better choice than a specific 4 star recruit, but all other thigns equal, I'm sure Tubby would prefer the 4 star.
 

the reasoning in that article is exactly why Tubby doesn't seem to mind a bunch of 2 and 3 star kids on his teams. It seems to me that he would rather be known as a coach that can get results from lesser known kids than a coach who might underachieve with great players. This might stem from feeling like he didn't get enough credit for the National Championship because they weren't his players. (amateur psychology hour is now over

And yet he remains known as a coach who underachieves with star palyers,
and alibis and excuses with 2-3 star kids when they don't win either. Ho hum.
 

Tubby & Kill have very similar philosophies on recruits I think. They both recruit to their system, filling specific roles. They both want high character guys, who'll go to class & show some class. They only want players that want to be Gophers, etc. If a 4-5* with quality character falls into their laps they'll take a run at him, but are not going to waste a lot of time trying to out recruit the top-10 schools for recruits. Both would rather fill the roster with coach-able 3* players that are willing to do the work & play as a team.
 

Tubby & Kill have very similar philosophies on recruits I think. They both recruit to their system, filling specific roles. They both want high character guys, who'll go to class & show some class. They only want players that want to be Gophers, etc. If a 4-5* with quality character falls into their laps they'll take a run at him, but are not going to waste a lot of time trying to out recruit the top-10 schools for recruits. Both would rather fill the roster with coach-able 3* players that are willing to do the work & play as a team.

+1

If I remember right, Brewster had a couple of highly ranked classes, but he had know idea where to put the player's, just his notion that if he put highly touted recruits on the field they would crap out some wins for him. Kill seems to take the Herb Brooks "I'm not looking for the best players, I'm looking for the right ones" approach.
 



the reasoning in that article is exactly why Tubby doesn't seem to mind a bunch of 2 and 3 star kids on his teams. It seems to me that he would rather be known as a coach that can get results from lesser known kids than a coach who might underachieve with great players. This might stem from feeling like he didn't get enough credit for the National Championship because they weren't his players. (amateur psychology hour is now over

Thank you for this post. I didn't know where to post this commentary of mine, and you have set me up perfectly. I have not followed your posts regularily, so if this doesn't apply to you I apologize, it is more just general comments I was thinking during the game.

I HATE the term "Hater" (does that make me a hater?) but the general purpose of it is to describe someone who will hate a certain individual regardless of what they do and there are a few of those people with Tubby Smith and that became clear to me watching yesterday's game and thinking back to the countless posts on Gopherhole over the years.

People wondered, why doesn't Tubby go after big-time players? He sould be able to get them to come to MN, he is TUBBY SMITH!

He went hard after CoJo, Harrison Barnes, Ray McCallum (Hard could be argued here, he was a huge lean to play for his dad), Naadir Tharpe, Draymond Green, Tim Hardaway Jr., etc. and was definitley in the running for many of those guys.

Then people wonder, why can't Tubby land these big recruits, HE IS TUBY SMITH!?

As many have pointed out, Devoe, Ralph, Colton, Mo Walker, Rodney, Royce, Cobbs, Dre Hollins, Austin Hollins, Joe Coleman, Trevor Mbakwe, all had very legitimite offers. I won't turn this into an argument about from whom, but they did have legit offers.

Then, we wonder, why does Tubby bother with these big time recruits who will never come here and we end up with these terrible spring signees

Maverick has turned out to be a serviceable back-up PG, Welch has been a great addition this year, Chip has been killing it, Mo Walker was a Rivals top 150 player who most can't wait to have back.

Then people say, why can't Tubby be like Bo Ryan and develop talent. I don't care if he can't recruit, but please develop players like Bo Ryan and find talent under the radar! (Ignoring Bo Ryan actually gets very good recruits quite often)

Chip Armelin was your player of the day yesterday, this is the same Chip Armelin that was more heavily recruited as a football player than basketball. The same Chip Armelin that not a single other BCS basketball team offered or wanted. Tubby Smith took a chance on him and he has blossomed to be one of the Gophers best players right now. Julian Welch had no other BCS offers out of JuCo and played nonBCS his freshman year as well. He shot the Gophers into the game yesterday and has been a very good option at PG. He also took a team of Monson recruits and turned Damien Johnson into one of the best deffensive players in the Big10. Blake Hoffarber got better every year. Al Nolen went from 2-Star recruit to starting PG and an awesome deffender. Rodney gets better yearly, Trevor was showing great imrpovement. Austin has looked much better this year, etc.

It frustrated me to no end that people throw out crazy knocks on Tubby just to be mad. Do his subsititions suck most of the time? Absolutley. Does he always make the best on-court decisions, nope.

I understand in sports, people want someone to blame for bad things and that blame falls on the coach, but it is obnoxious when people just reach for whatever they can come up with. It reminds me of in the movie Anchorman and everyone is complaining about hiring a female anchor. All Steve Carrel's character can come up with is, "AHHHHHH LOUD NOISES!!!!!!" One loss and Gopherhole turns in to loud noises, sky is falling, Tubby/player bashing, garbage.

Rant Over.
 

Tubby & Kill have very similar philosophies on recruits I think. They both recruit to their system, filling specific roles. They both want high character guys, who'll go to class & show some class. They only want players that want to be Gophers, etc. If a 4-5* with quality character falls into their laps they'll take a run at him, but are not going to waste a lot of time trying to out recruit the top-10 schools for recruits. Both would rather fill the roster with coach-able 3* players that are willing to do the work & play as a team.

Agreed. and FWIW, Draymond Green was a 3-Star recruit. I wonder if Izzo is knocked for recruiting him.
 

Tubby had Dray coming to Kentucky. He was a top 100 rated player. Mbakwe was a top 100 rated player coming out of High School as well. Coleman, Sampson, Hollins, MO are top 150. Tubby Secured 8 Mcdonalds All Americans while at UK. While he isn't a great recruiter, he's a good recruiter and a better coach. Not a bad combo, IMO
 

Quality rant, scher215 lol.

Essentially, Tubby has a blend of more highly touted recruits and also some kids who weren't so highly regarded. Considering the transfers, that's not really a surprise. When you're not an elite program, you're most likely not gonna have 1-13 scholarships consist of 4 star+ kids who had offers from a multitude of BCS schools.

I just don't understand this perception that Tubby hasn't recruited any highly touted kids here. Makes no sense at all. Just cause they all didn't pan out here doesn't mean they weren't highly touted recruits that Tubby landed.

Give this group a chance to grow before we cast them off as destined to NIT berths forever.
 



the reasoning in that article is exactly why Tubby doesn't seem to mind a bunch of 2 and 3 star kids on his teams. It seems to me that he would rather be known as a coach that can get results from lesser known kids than a coach who might underachieve with great players. This might stem from feeling like he didn't get enough credit for the National Championship because they weren't his players. (amateur psychology hour is now over

How would you explain him recruiting a guy like Royce White then?
 

Thank you for this post. I didn't know where to post this commentary of mine, and you have set me up perfectly. I have not followed your posts regularily, so if this doesn't apply to you I apologize, it is more just general comments I was thinking during the game.

I HATE the term "Hater" (does that make me a hater?) but the general purpose of it is to describe someone who will hate a certain individual regardless of what they do and there are a few of those people with Tubby Smith and that became clear to me watching yesterday's game and thinking back to the countless posts on Gopherhole over the years.

People wondered, why doesn't Tubby go after big-time players? He sould be able to get them to come to MN, he is TUBBY SMITH!

He went hard after CoJo, Harrison Barnes, Ray McCallum (Hard could be argued here, he was a huge lean to play for his dad), Naadir Tharpe, Draymond Green, Tim Hardaway Jr., etc. and was definitley in the running for many of those guys.

Then people wonder, why can't Tubby land these big recruits, HE IS TUBY SMITH!?

As many have pointed out, Devoe, Ralph, Colton, Mo Walker, Rodney, Royce, Cobbs, Dre Hollins, Austin Hollins, Joe Coleman, Trevor Mbakwe, all had very legitimite offers. I won't turn this into an argument about from whom, but they did have legit offers.

Then, we wonder, why does Tubby bother with these big time recruits who will never come here and we end up with these terrible spring signees

Maverick has turned out to be a serviceable back-up PG, Welch has been a great addition this year, Chip has been killing it, Mo Walker was a Rivals top 150 player who most can't wait to have back.

Then people say, why can't Tubby be like Bo Ryan and develop talent. I don't care if he can't recruit, but please develop players like Bo Ryan and find talent under the radar! (Ignoring Bo Ryan actually gets very good recruits quite often)

Chip Armelin was your player of the day yesterday, this is the same Chip Armelin that was more heavily recruited as a football player than basketball. The same Chip Armelin that not a single other BCS basketball team offered or wanted. Tubby Smith took a chance on him and he has blossomed to be one of the Gophers best players right now. Julian Welch had no other BCS offers out of JuCo and played nonBCS his freshman year as well. He shot the Gophers into the game yesterday and has been a very good option at PG. He also took a team of Monson recruits and turned Damien Johnson into one of the best deffensive players in the Big10. Blake Hoffarber got better every year. Al Nolen went from 2-Star recruit to starting PG and an awesome deffender. Rodney gets better yearly, Trevor was showing great imrpovement. Austin has looked much better this year, etc.

It frustrated me to no end that people throw out crazy knocks on Tubby just to be mad. Do his subsititions suck most of the time? Absolutley. Does he always make the best on-court decisions, nope.

I understand in sports, people want someone to blame for bad things and that blame falls on the coach, but it is obnoxious when people just reach for whatever they can come up with. It reminds me of in the movie Anchorman and everyone is complaining about hiring a female anchor. All Steve Carrel's character can come up with is, "AHHHHHH LOUD NOISES!!!!!!" One loss and Gopherhole turns in to loud noises, sky is falling, Tubby/player bashing, garbage.

Rant Over.

+1,000,000
 




Scher215 is absolutely correct in every respect.
 

jmag21 said:
Scher215 is absolutely correct in every respect.

Let me just add that although I share Scher215's frustration with Tubby's wholesale substitutions, I also recognize that Tubby's propensity to play a deep bench seems to be helping us quite a bit this year. Players are developing nicely and the team doesn't run out of gas at the end of games. It was certainly a factor that helped us beat IL in OT and we bested a number of teams in the non-con at the end of games.

We're also defending against and shooting the 3 better which could be attributed to our fresher legs and opponents tiring during the grind of the season.
 

We're defending the 3 better because the team is quicker without Trevor. I'd love to have Trevor back. However, he is not fast on his feet out from under the basket. He was either under the basket or in no-man's land while on defense.
 

As a Tubby player at least you have an opportunity to show what you can do. Hard to show your stuff with nothing other than splinters in the backside. I really like how Oto is progressing. He is starting to get more comfortable with the game. Go Oto!
 

We're defending the 3 better because the team is quicker without Trevor. I'd love to have Trevor back. However, he is not fast on his feet out from under the basket. He was either under the basket or in no-man's land while on defense.

We're defending the 3 better because we are no longer doubling down on the post. When we used to double down on the post every time it gave our guards signficantly more ground to cover when closing out on three-point shooters which gave them more open/easier looks. Now that we aren't doubling down our guards can actually contest shots a little better, hence the better three-point defense.
 

We're defending the 3 better because we are no longer doubling down on the post. When we used to double down on the post every time it gave our guards signficantly more ground to cover when closing out on three-point shooters which gave them more open/easier looks. Now that we aren't doubling down our guards can actually contest shots a little better, hence the better three-point defense.

I agree with your analysis, we are not "over helping" nearly as much. The improvement in 3 point defense is one of the bright spots this year. On a related note, I love the way Eliason defended on the perimeter when he got forced to on a switch yesterday. It happened several times and almost every time he kept his hands up and prevented the offensive player from shooting an uncontested 3 (there was one exception to this in the first half).
 

I agree with your analysis, we are not "over helping" nearly as much. The improvement in 3 point defense is one of the bright spots this year. On a related note, I love the way Eliason defended on the perimeter when he got forced to on a switch yesterday. It happened several times and almost every time he kept his hands up and prevented the offensive player from shooting an uncontested 3 (there was one exception to this in the first half).
Ya, EE learned from that first time he playing off and the guard hit an uncontested 3. This is really a situation we should try to avoid though.
 



I agree with your analysis, we are not "over helping" nearly as much. The improvement in 3 point defense is one of the bright spots this year. On a related note, I love the way Eliason defended on the perimeter when he got forced to on a switch yesterday. It happened several times and almost every time he kept his hands up and prevented the offensive player from shooting an uncontested 3 (there was one exception to this in the first half).

+1
 




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