Andy Katz: Flip DECLINES Gophers job offer

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Dr.Don said:
Here is Coach K's complete history, via Google:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Krzyzewski
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And? I guess I missed this part? "He directed service teams for 3 years"???


"Service teams"? What is that supposed to mean? lol Does directing service teams involve recruiting?! Isn't that the dig on Ryan, that he has no recruiting experience?!


It's simple, K was a Capt on one of Knight's teams, and so he hired him. He saw potential in him.

Ryan was a Capt for the Gophers. Is it so far fetched that Flip might not see potential in him?
 

#1nHkyCfbBsbDncSolarDebat said:
And? I guess I missed this part? "He directed service teams for 3 years"???


"Service teams"? What is that supposed to mean? lol Does directing service teams involve recruiting?! Isn't that the dig on Ryan, that he has no recruiting experience?!


It's simple, K was a Capt on one of Knight's teams, and so he hired him. He saw potential in him.

Ryan was a Capt for the Gophers. Is it so far fetched that Flip might not see potential in him?
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Dude how can you be this obtuse about how hiring a kid of yours can be problematic in the workplace?
 

westcoastgopher11 said:
Dude how can you be this obtuse about how hiring a kid of yours can be problematic in the workplace?
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This ain't the standard workplace. You are starting to sound like a "bed wetter" over this issue. We may pay an extra million or so to avoid the awful Ryan Saunders- ex grad assistant and player at Minnesota. Or we may get an unknown, unproven coach in the exchange. or maybe not. We'll see.
 



Replacement Gopher said:
Ummm, not really. They didn't eat Saul alive even after his DUI. They didn't get on Monson for basically riding his dad's coat tails into the industry. They didn't get on Brent Haskins. They don't get on Dutcher's son. Same with Eric Musselman.
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Those were the lessons learned - especially Saul's incident. Straw camel. They didn't eat Saul alive then because they were already pretty well set on making a change - just a matter of time. And they won't repeat those mistakes. If Flip had and sense for where the wind was blowing he wouldn't even have gone there.

There won't be anymore daddy-daddy's boy pairs at the U for awhile.
 

bga1 said:
This ain't the standard workplace. You are starting to sound like a "bed wetter" over this issue.
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No sh*t? Stop being willfully ignorant of the many potential problems that could arise from someone as high profile as a B1G basketball coach hiring his kid.

If Teague doesn't want to deal with nepotism in his department I got no problem with that. It's his ship to command so if she sinks you better believe he's going down with it.
 


bga1 said:
This ain't the standard workplace. You are starting to sound like a "bed wetter" over this issue. We may pay an extra million or so to avoid the awful Ryan Saunders- ex grad assistant and player at Minnesota. Or we may get an unknown, unproven coach in the exchange. or maybe not. We'll see.
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It is worse than a standard workplace - much more visibility. The optics have to be crystal clear - especially in light of the past failings of coaches sons.

It just is what it is.

Sad thing is there were ways to work around - said it about a dozen times - do the 'consultant route' with Flip paying out of his millions. After a few years and the wins pile up the policy can be 'reexamined'.

This was not a road block but egos both ways seemed to derail it.
 



westcoastgopher11 said:
Dude how can you be this obtuse about how hiring a kid of yours can be problematic in the workplace?
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Because you Flip HATERS have been harping on this issue, trying to make it out as if Ryan is SO unqualified, and in 10 minutes of searching, I quickly found several examples that proves Ryan is not unqualified at all.


So Teague's Cronyism is ok? But Flip supposed Nepotism is wrong?


You do realize that for something to be "nepotism" it's required for the relative to be CLEARLY unqualified.

Go look up the definition if you don't believe me.



If Ryan IS qualified, then it does not fit the definition and is not Nepotism.


IN FACT, disqualifying an otherwise qualified candidate simply because they are related, could be argued is discrimination.
 


If the President of the United States can hire his brother to be Attorney General, then I don't think its a HORRIBLE SIN for a college basketball coach to hire his QUALIFIED son to be his 3rd Assistant.
 




#1nHkyCfbBsbDncSolarDebat said:
So Teague's Cronyism is ok? But Flip supposed Nepotism is wrong?
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Did Teague hire any family members? Did his 'cronies' have well established college AD office experience? First answer no - second answer yes.

Who was Flip bringing in? The old Timberwolves Mafia? His son? And Teague is the bad guy to say - no? To ask that the assistants have strong college experience and demonstrable record showing that?
 

#1nHkyCfbBsbDncSolarDebat said:
Because you Flip HATERS have been harping on this issue, trying to make it out as if Ryan is SO unqualified, and in 10 minutes of searching, I quickly found several examples that proves Ryan is not unqualified at all.
So Teague's Cronyism is ok? But Flip supposed Nepotism is wrong?
You do realize that for something to be "nepotism" it's required for the relative to be CLEARLY unqualified.
Go look up the definition if you don't believe me.
If Ryan IS qualified, then it does not fit the definition and is not Nepotism.
IN FACT, disqualifying an otherwise qualified candidate simply because they are related, could be argued is discrimination.
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#1alphabet I've read plenty of your posts and you obviously know a good deal about the history of the program. You might ramble to an outrageous extent and space your posts in a really random and nonsensical way but you know your stuff.

I'm not a Flip hater and have said I would have loved the guy as coach, I just knew it wasn't going to happen given Teague's m.o. Posters like Bob say they think Flip isn't a good coach, we may agree on some things but I diverge from him on this point.

That being said you are making yourself look like a clown on this issue. Stop trying to equate "cronyism" and "nepotism", that sh*t is not going to be on equal footing no matter how hard you try. Nepotism will ALWAYS look so much worse.

And furthermore half the problem with nepotism is that a lot of times kids of successful people get jobs that AREN'T qualified for. Your take on the definition of nepotism makes zero sense bro. And your implication that dq'ing a candidate because of a relationship to a current employee is discrimination is just lolworthy.

I'm not debating if Ryan Saunders is qualified, I'm saying Teague has every right to avoid any nepotism in athletic department he is running.
 

lugnard said:
Did Teague hire any family members? Did his 'cronies' have well established college AD office experience? First answer no - second answer yes.

Who was Flip bringing in? The old Timberwolves Mafia? His son? And Teague is the bad guy to say - no? To ask that the assistants have strong college experience and demonstrable record showing that?
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I didn't accuse Teague of hiring a family member. Do you not know what the definition of the word Crony is? It's not hiring family members.

And hiring QUALIFIED family members is not nepotism.


Nepotism comes from a word indicating nephew, which goes back to Roman Catholic Bishops appointing their 16 year old nephews as Bishops, putting them in position to possibly be named THE FRICKING POPE!!!!!


THAT is ridiculous.


But hiring a family member who IS qualified does NOT meet the definition of nepotism.
 

fan of Ray Williams said:
No, played the Badgers each year and lost each year.
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My bad - I was going on what a friend who is an alum of UW and he told me that was the deal. He got his undergrad at UWW and they played UWP and got thumped by Ryan then when he did grad school at Madison went to games and saw Ryan while at UWM give them hell again. He said the only way to make him go away was to hire him.

Obviously I need to question him a bit better. Personally - I don't follow either team that close just took his word for it.
 

#1nHkyCfbBsbDncSolarDebat said:
I didn't accuse Teague of hiring a family member. Do you not know what the definition of the word Crony is? It's not hiring family members.

And hiring QUALIFIED family members is not nepotism.
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Actually yes it is - any family member qualified or not. And even some of those 16 year olds might have been qualified - didn't make it any less corrupt.
 

lugnard said:
My bad - I was going on what a friend who is an alum of UW and he told me that was the deal. He got his undergrad at UWW and they played UWP and got thumped by Ryan then when he did grad school at Madison went to games and saw Ryan while at UWM give them hell again. He said the only way to make him go away was to hire him.

Obviously I need to question him a bit better. Personally - I don't follow either team that close just took his word for it.
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No big deal, it was so long ago and doesn't matter anymore anyways. (I just wanted to post since I've been spending such an enormous amount of time on here.)
 

westcoastgopher11 said:
I'm not debating if Ryan Saunders is qualified, I'm saying Teague has every right to avoid any nepotism in athletic department he is running.
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I will go one step farther - I am guessing he could be a real good coach someday - this was NOT the way to do it. The optics are too bad and the potential for blow up huge. For him, for his father and for the team.

They should have thought that one out more carefully before even discussing w/ the administration. There are always work arounds. Which makes me think there really is more to the story. Probably both sides.
 

westcoastgopher11 said:
#1alphabet I've read plenty of your posts and you obviously know a good deal about the history of the program. You might ramble to an outrageous extent and space your posts in a really random and nonsensical way but you know your stuff.

I'm not a Flip hater and have said I would have loved the guy as coach, I just knew it wasn't going to happen given Teague's m.o. Posters like Bob say they think Flip isn't a good coach, we may agree on some things but I diverge from him on this point.

That being said you are making yourself look like a clown on this issue. Stop trying to equate "cronyism" and "nepotism", that sh*t is not going to be on equal footing no matter how hard you try. Nepotism will ALWAYS look so much worse.

And furthermore half the problem with nepotism is that a lot of times kids of successful people get jobs that AREN'T qualified for. Your take on the definition of nepotism makes zero sense bro. And your implication that dq'ing a candidate because of a relationship to a current employee is discrimination is just lolworthy.

I'm not debating if Ryan Saunders is qualified, I'm saying Teague has every right to avoid any nepotism in athletic department he is running.
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I can respect what you are saying bro, and especially HOW you are saying what you are saying.



But the thing is, the definition of the word nepotism, indicates that the family member being hired or appointed to a high position IS UNQUALIFIED.


Only Kennedy's enemies accused him of nepotism for appointing his brother as Attorney General. The vast majority of the country believed that Bobby Kennedy was qualified for the position and so did not have a problem with it.


Ryan is comparatively WELL QUALIFIED, so it is not nepotism. But Flip Haters(which I'm not saying you are a Flip hater), those Flip Haters will continue to try to make it look like Ryan is unqualified.

The reason Bob made such an effort to prove Ryan was unqualified, is because he must know what the TRUE definition of nepotism is an Unqualified family member being hired or appointed to a position by another family member.
 

fan of Ray Williams said:
No big deal, it was so long ago and doesn't matter anymore anyways. (I just wanted to post since I've been spending such an enormous amount of time on here.)
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I lurk here a lot - didn't even log in most times - but this one got me pissed. I actually want to see the program solid - stable and not a flavor of the month cult of personality. I don't care who gets hired so long as it isn't another cult of personality. That is why I like Kill so much. Really need somebody like that - just business.
 


#1nHkyCfbBsbDncSolarDebat said:
I can respect what you are saying bro, and especially HOW you are saying what you are saying.
But the thing is, the definition of the word nepotism, indicates that the family member being hired or appointed to a high position IS UNQUALIFIED.
Only Kennedy's enemies accused him of nepotism for appointing his brother as Attorney General. The vast majority of the country believed that Bobby Kennedy was qualified for the position and so did not have a problem with it.
Ryan is comparatively WELL QUALIFIED, so it is not nepotism. But Flip Haters(which I'm not saying you are a Flip hater), those Flip Haters will continue to try to make it look like Ryan is unqualified.
The reason Bob made such an effort to prove Ryan was unqualified, is because he must know what the TRUE definition of nepotism is an Unqualified family member being hired or appointed to a position by another family member.
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Favoritism on account of kinship. No talk of qualifications involved. Close the book on this poor line of reasoning.

The RFK analogy is useless because his brother was at the top of the totem pole, Flip wouldn't have been.

Flip is an employee of Teague. If Teague wants to have the department he was hired to run his way that's his prerogative.
 

#1nHkyCfbBsbDncSolarDebat said:
OK, you show me the PROOF and I'll change my tune. Wikipedia for one disagrees with you.
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You got me. Looked it up in a lot of sources and you're right "nepotism" isn't the act of hiring a relative it's "favoring" them over others. Gees, bet that I'm far from the only one who got that wrong.

Nepotism Definition

Simply put, the definition of nepotism is favoring relatives. Nepotism in the workplace occurs when employers favor relatives in making employment decisions, with little to no regard for anything but kinship.

An example is hiring or promoting relatives solely because they are family members, with no consideration of the qualifications or merits of other job candidates or employees.
 

westcoastgopher11 said:
Favoritism on account of kinship. No talk of qualifications involved. Close the book on this poor line of reasoning.

The RFK analogy is useless because his brother was at the top of the totem pole, Flip wouldn't have been.

Flip is an employee of Teague. If Teague wants to have the department he was hired to run his way that's his prerogative.
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Wikipedia definition says that Nepotism is "favoritism granted to family members REGARDLESS of merit"

emphasis mine.



An EXPANDED definition trumps an abbreviated one.

Sorry.


Not dropping it.
 

Iceland12 said:
You got me. Looked it up in a lot of sources and you're right "nepotism" isn't the act of hiring a relative it's "favoring" them over others. Gees, bet that I'm far from the only one who got that wrong.

Nepotism Definition

Simply put, the definition of nepotism is favoring relatives. Nepotism in the workplace occurs when employers favor relatives in making employment decisions, with little to no regard for anything but kinship.

An example is hiring or promoting relatives solely because they are family members, with no consideration of the qualifications or merits of other job candidates or employees.
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Thanks for the assist. Iceland12
 

4.10 Nepotism

Board Policies
Chapter 4 - Human Resources

Click here for a PDF copy of this policy.

Part 1. Nepotism Employees of Minnesota State Colleges and Universities shall not participate in the selection, hiring, supervision, or performance review of, or decisions regarding compensation or staff complement for, any person who is a member of the employee’s family or household and is an applicant for employment with, or employed by, Minnesota State Colleges and Universities, except as permitted under procedures adopted by the chancellor.

http://www.mnscu.edu/board/policy/410.html
 

#1nHkyCfbBsbDncSolarDebat said:
Wikipedia definition says that Nepotism is "favoritism granted to family members REGARDLESS of merit"

emphasis mine.



And EXPANDED definition trumps an abbreviated one.

Sorry.


Not dropping it.
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I'm not going to get into a pissing match over what kind of dictionary you use. Even with your definition regardless could encompass a candidate who is qualified but not the best for the position, which any rational person should take exception with. This leads nowhere.

Address my second point though please. Is it within Teague's right as the AD to not allow family members to hire each other?
 

station19 said:
4.10 Nepotism

Board Policies
Chapter 4 - Human Resources

Click here for a PDF copy of this policy.

Part 1. Nepotism Employees of Minnesota State Colleges and Universities shall not participate in the selection, hiring, supervision, or performance review of, or decisions regarding compensation or staff complement for, any person who is a member of the employee’s family or household and is an applicant for employment with, or employed by, Minnesota State Colleges and Universities, except as permitted under procedures adopted by the chancellor.

http://www.mnscu.edu/board/policy/410.html
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Get your facts and rules the f*** out of here station, no room for those on GH.
 

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