And then we got scouted....

Donate To GopherHole
B

bga1

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
59,334
Reaction score
22,668
Points
113
Looking back at the Big Ten season so far-

We played our first 5 games in the BT season- pretty tough ones MSU (then 18th), Illinois (then 12th), NW, Indiana (then #5) and Michigan (then #5) and we average 77 points per game . Went 3-2 in that stretch but played respectably even in the losses despite bad stretches.

The we played Northwestern again and they hit us with the 1-3-1 and slowed us to a halt and perhaps exposed us to the rest of the conference.

Including that game and since that time we have played 8 games averaging 56 points per game.
An amazing drop off. It looks to me like other coaches saw what happened to us at NW and had all the answers they needed to play us.
 


Ski U Mah Gopher said:
And that includes an 84-point game against Nebraska.
Click to expand...

Yep- take that away (which isn't fair I guess) and the average goes to 52 points per game for the other 7. That's prehistoric basketball.
 

Pass ball. Catch ball. Shoot ball. Score ball. Rebound missed ball. Score on rebound. Stop opponent. The game is easy.
 

bga1 said:
Looking back at the Big Ten season so far-

We played our first 5 games in the BT season- pretty tough ones MSU (then 18th), Illinois (then 12th), NW, Indiana (then #5) and Michigan (then #5) and we average 77 points per game . Went 3-2 in that stretch but played respectably even in the losses despite bad stretches.

The we played Northwestern again and they hit us with the 1-3-1 and slowed us to a halt and perhaps exposed us to the rest of the conference.

Including that game and since that time we have played 8 games averaging 56 points per game.
An amazing drop off. It looks to me like other coaches saw what happened to us at NW and had all the answers they needed to play us.
Click to expand...

we dont need better players, we just need better scouts!
 



bga1 said:
Looking back at the Big Ten season so far-

We played our first 5 games in the BT season- pretty tough ones MSU (then 18th), Illinois (then 12th), NW, Indiana (then #5) and Michigan (then #5) and we average 77 points per game . Went 3-2 in that stretch but played respectably even in the losses despite bad stretches.

The we played Northwestern again and they hit us with the 1-3-1 and slowed us to a halt and perhaps exposed us to the rest of the conference.

Including that game and since that time we have played 8 games averaging 56 points per game.
An amazing drop off. It looks to me like other coaches saw what happened to us at NW and had all the answers they needed to play us.
Click to expand...

Can't argue with that. To be successful against a zone defense you have to be able to shoot from the perimeter and have continuous player and ball movement to find the open man. The Gopher's inability to make an outside shot has begged for a zone defense all year long. We have two players who can at times shoot the outside shot (Dre and Austin) The Remainder have become reluctant to shoot from beyond 10 feet (Trevor, Elliason, Rodney, Oto, Mav, etc). That is a recipe for disaster against a zone defense.

I love this team to death, but if they don't start making outside shots an NCAA bid is in jeopardy. Any team that fails to utilize a zone defense against this group is more poorly coached than many of you think the Gophers are.
 


lakesgopher said:
Is the problem finding them or landing them?
Click to expand...

Identify the right mix of players that you can land. That probably means you won't find 13 great athletes that can all shoot. Everyone has the same challenge. Duke expects to succeed at it every year and they do. We should expect to get enough guys with the right blend to make a nice run at a Big Ten title every 4 years. I think that's reasonable. Finishing 6th or lower 6 straight years doesn't cut it by any analysis.
 



bga1 said:
Identify the right mix of players that you can land. That probably means you won't find 13 great athletes that can all shoot. Everyone has the same challenge. Duke expects to succeed at it every year and they do. We should expect to get enough guys with the right blend to make a nice run at a Big Ten title every 4 years. I think that's reasonable. Finishing 6th or lower 6 straight years doesn't cut it by any analysis.
Click to expand...

If it were that easy don't you think it would have happened in like the last 50 yrs? We aren't a location kids dream about playing for, we just because you get some good scouts doesn't mean kids are going to come to Minnesota over schools like mich st or wisky. They have amenities we can't offer. We have players saying they work out at lifetime because they can't get gym time. Coach k would struggle at Minnesota if he came in next year. I don't understand why so many think its an easy fix, if it was easy it wouldn't need to be fixed.
 

Sadly, we're still ranked 6th in the conference in scoring.
 


lakesgopher said:
If it were that easy don't you think it would have happened in like the last 50 yrs? We aren't a location kids dream about playing for, we just because you get some good scouts doesn't mean kids are going to come to Minnesota over schools like mich st or wisky. They have amenities we can't offer. We have players saying they work out at lifetime because they can't get gym time. Coach k would struggle at Minnesota if he came in next year. I don't understand why so many think its an easy fix, if it was easy it wouldn't need to be fixed.
Click to expand...

I think it will take a special guy to make it happen here. IMO, K could. Coach K is on a different plane than Tubby though. He is over most every coach in CBB.

We need to find our Coach K. That's what Teague and Ellis will be tasked to do. It really takes two great hires to propel a school to elite status. Need that first guy to have success, tournament berths, a final four maybe, some big recruits and stay for 10-15 years. Then you bring in the young gun to stay the next 20 and make final fours a regularity. MSU won the title with Magic before Izzo and Izzo has propelled it. duke was good before K, but K propelled it. You need every coach to build on the other and longevity and consistency.

The painful thing is that MN may have had its first guy with Clem, not elite success but enough to get the program on the map. Unfortunately, he was cheating and everything came tumbling down.
 



scher215 said:
I think it will take a special guy to make it happen here. IMO, K could. Coach K is on a different plane than Tubby though. He is over most every coach in CBB.

We need to find our Coach K. That's what Teague and Ellis will be tasked to do. It really takes two great hires to propel a school to elite status. Need that first guy to have success, tournament berths, a final four maybe, some big recruits and stay for 10-15 years. Then you bring in the young gun to stay the next 20 and make final fours a regularity. MSU won the title with Magic before Izzo and Izzo has propelled it. duke was good before K, but K propelled it. You need every coach to build on the other and longevity and consistency.

The painful thing is that MN may have had its first guy with Clem, not elite success but enough to get the program on the map. Unfortunately, he was cheating and everything came tumbling down.
Click to expand...

I just don't believe coach k would have success right away. If tubby is let go the new coach will struggle for 2-4 yrs. we don't have the ability to offer high end talent the same things other schools that are our peers can offer is all I'm saying. If you polled all the high school basketball players in the state of Minnesota I'm willing to bet the gophers aren't their favorite program. Now if you live in wisky, Iowa, Michigan...who do you think those kids would choose? It's the fundamental problem people often ignore...our own youth thinks very poorly of my favorite college. How do we change that? It starts with winning, but that's only half of it all. When we start getting studs like this and jones and Vaughn growing up dreaming about playing for the gophers we will have something, I just wish we could figure out how to get there?
 

lakesgopher said:
I just don't believe coach k would have success right away. If tubby is let go the new coach will struggle for 2-4 yrs. we don't have the ability to offer high end talent the same things other schools that are our peers can offer is all I'm saying. If you polled all the high school basketball players in the state of Minnesota I'm willing to bet the gophers aren't their favorite program. Now if you live in wisky, Iowa, Michigan...who do you think those kids would choose? It's the fundamental problem people often ignore...our own youth thinks very poorly of my favorite college. How do we change that? It starts with winning, but that's only half of it all. When we start getting studs like this and jones and Vaughn growing up dreaming about playing for the gophers we will have something, I just wish we could figure out how to get there?
Click to expand...
Harrison Barnes chose Iowa. A formerly motivated Tubby Smith would have 2 of the big 3 committing here. We aren't far away, we're stuck with a guy past his prime who is dragging down his own recruited talent.
 


lakesgopher said:
If it were that easy don't you think it would have happened in like the last 50 yrs? We aren't a location kids dream about playing for, we just because you get some good scouts doesn't mean kids are going to come to Minnesota over schools like mich st or wisky. They have amenities we can't offer. We have players saying they work out at lifetime because they can't get gym time. Coach k would struggle at Minnesota if he came in next year. I don't understand why so many think its an easy fix, if it was easy it wouldn't need to be fixed.
Click to expand...

It has happened several times over the past 50 years.

Mussy did it.
Dutcher did it a couple of times.
Clem did it a couple of times.

Yes, Clem cheated. But other than the Bobby Jackson transcript issue- which was major he did nothing else to gain a competitive advantage to get players here. You can get enough players here.

I hate to continue to bring up the name but the Grinch has never finished lower than 4th in 11 years at Wisky. They get good players out of Wisconsin and they have to compete with Marquette. It can be done. I'm not even expecting 4th or better every year. I am expecting a compilation of lower division finishes and upper division finishes with an occasional run at a Big Ten championship. That's hardly the stuff of Duke dynasties.
 

bga1 said:
It has happened several times over the past 50 years.

Mussy did it.
Dutcher did it a couple of times.
Clem did it a couple of times.

Yes, Clem cheated. But other than the Bobby Jackson transcript issue- which was major he did nothing else to gain a competitive advantage to get players here. You can get enough players here.

I hate to continue to bring up the name but the Grinch has never finished lower than 4th in 11 years at Wisky. They get good players out of Wisconsin and they have to compete with Marquette. It can be done. I'm not even expecting 4th or better every year. I am expecting a compilation of lower division finishes and upper division finishes with an occasional run at a Big Ten championship. That's hardly the stuff of Duke dynasties.
Click to expand...

If u were tyus would you go to Minnesota? What about rashaad? If I was either of those two I would not come to Minnesota. Especially if I have nba aspirations. I guarantee neither of those guys have dreamed about playing at Minnesota.

As far as Wisconsin goes, kids grow up dreaming about 2 things, being a packer and being a badger. There is a huge difference in how it's looked at in wisky! If you have kids that stay home and have wanted to always be there its easier to win IMO. I could be wrong but I truly believe that's why gopher hockey has always been so great, kids dream about playing here and work their ass off to get the privilege of being a gopher hockey player
 




lakesgopher said:
If u were tyus would you go to Minnesota? What about rashaad? If I was either of those two I would not come to Minnesota. Especially if I have nba aspirations. I guarantee neither of those guys have dreamed about playing at Minnesota.

As far as Wisconsin goes, kids grow up dreaming about 2 things, being a packer and being a badger. There is a huge difference in how it's looked at in wisky! If you have kids that stay home and have wanted to always be there its easier to win IMO. I could be wrong but I truly believe that's why gopher hockey has always been so great, kids dream about playing here and work their ass off to get the privilege of being a gopher hockey player
Click to expand...

If I were Tyus and I believed I could win at Minnesota with the coach they have (whoever that is) - then yes I'd go here. I'd go here because it would be me and my group that made a difference. I'd go here because I could build my own legacy and be remembered for it. Duke or Kentucky will win without him. I'd go here because I'd know that a guy that is good enough to go pro is going to get found here just as at Duke. I'd go here because I could probably also get Vaughn to join me as well as Travis and I'd go here because I could play at home where my family is. For me personally I'd go because I love the Gophers.

Let me tell you something about the Badgers: In the years from 1959 to 2001 with coaches ranging from Erickson to Powless to Cofield to Yoder to Jackson VanGundy and finally Bennett - the Wisconsin record in Big Ten play was 237-435. A .350 winning percentage.
The Grinch came in and in 11 years has a 132 and 54 record in Big Ten play. That's a .700 winning percentage-double before. A coach can make a difference and he doesn't have to do it by loading up with 5 stars. He has simply got to be good and has got to find a way fo recruiting to his system and building a winning culture. Absolutely no reason that can't happen here and it could start with Tyus if he chose to come here.
 

bga1 said:
If I were Tyus and I believed I could win at Minnesota with the coach they have (whoever that is) - then yes I'd go here. I'd go here because it would be me and my group that made a difference. I'd go here because I could build my own legacy be remembered for it. I go here because I'd know that a guy that is good enough to go pro is going to get found here just as at Duke. I'd go here because I could probably also get Vaughn to join me as well as Travis and I'd go here because I could play at home where my family is. For me personally I'd go because I love the Gophers.

Let me tell you something about the Badgers: In the years from 1959 to 2001 with coaches ranging fromEricskon to Powless to Cofield to Yoder to Jackson VanGundy and finally Bennett - the Wisconsin record in Big Ten play was 237-435.
The Grinch came in and in 11 years has a 132 and 54 record in Big Ten play. A coach can make a difference and he doesn't have to do it by loading up with 5 stars. He has simply got to be good and has got to find a way fo recruiting to his system and building a winning culture. Absolutely no reason that can't happen here and it could start with Tyus if he chose to come here.
Click to expand...
Amen, this isn't moving the entire Soviet Army from Moscow to Mongolia. Turning around a basketball program is a fairly easy task when compared with football, all it requires is a coach capable of recruiting and coaching. As it is right now we have 3 big recruits who see an unsteady ship they're not going to board. It's amazing how we've gone from landing Royce and Rodney to likely losing out on 3 important in-state recruits.
 



bga1 said:
If I were Tyus and I believed I could win at Minnesota with the coach they have (whoever that is) - then yes I'd go here. I'd go here because it would be me and my group that made a difference. I'd go here because I could build my own legacy and be remembered for it. Duke or Kentucky will win without him. I'd go here because I'd know that a guy that is good enough to go pro is going to get found here just as at Duke. I'd go here because I could probably also get Vaughn to join me as well as Travis and I'd go here because I could play at home where my family is. For me personally I'd go because I love the Gophers.

Let me tell you something about the Badgers: In the years from 1959 to 2001 with coaches ranging fromEricskon to Powless to Cofield to Yoder to Jackson VanGundy and finally Bennett - the Wisconsin record in Big Ten play was 237-435.
The Grinch came in and in 11 years has a 132 and 54 record in Big Ten play. A coach can make a difference and he doesn't have to do it by loading up with 5 stars. He has simply got to be good and has got to find a way fo recruiting to his system and building a winning culture. Absolutely no reason that can't happen here and it could start with Tyus if he chose to come here.
Click to expand...

and if tyus, vaughn , travis come here and fail what would they be remembered as? if you guys fail the media will talk about you 3 as the most overrated basketball players in the history of college athletics. sure could be great if they came and succeeded, they would be legends! if they fail they wont be regarded as anything more than another crap year in gopher hoops. if i was their coach and was looking out for their best interests im not sure im selling them minnesota
 


lakesgopher said:
and if tyus, vaughn , travis come here and fail what would they be remembered as? if you guys fail the media will talk about you 3 as the most overrated basketball players in the history of college athletics. sure could be great if they came and succeeded, they would be legends! if they fail they wont be regarded as anything more than another crap year in gopher hoops. if i was there coach and was looking out for their best interests im not sure im selling them minnesota
Click to expand...
You're not selling them Minnesota because the product stinks and the coaching is suspect at best. In life staying home is usually an incredible incentive, unless the prospects are so poor you're better off elsewhere. Rodney and Royce chose to stay based on vision and promise, the big 3 are likely not coming because of unfulfilled promise and lack of vision.
 

lakesgopher said:
and if tyus, vaughn , travis come here and fail what would they be remembered as? if you guys fail the media will talk about you 3 as the most overrated basketball players in the history of college athletics. sure could be great if they came and succeeded, they would be legends! if they fail they wont be regarded as anything more than another crap year in gopher hoops. if i was there coach and was looking out for their best interests im not sure im selling them minnesota
Click to expand...

I am hoping that these players are more in favor of challenges in life than you. Greatness is doing what others couldn't. Tyus and that group wouldn't fail here and if they would- they'd fail somewhere else just the same.
 

bga1 said:
I am hoping that these players are more in favor of challenges in life than you. Greatness is doing what others couldn't. Tyus and that group wouldn't fail here and if they would- they'd fail somewhere else just the same.
Click to expand...

i gues winning a national title at duke or kentucky isnt considered greatness?
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom