An amazing collection of things I didn’t see coming

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gopherbadgerman said:
That’s fair. But it’s on Fleck to improve the talent level too. Year 7 you’d like to see some notable improvements.
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That's not how it works. You don't improve year by year. There's no such thing as building a program anymore.

At a place like Minnesota, you simply have to compile a team each year...and hope they over-achieve.
 


csom_1991 said:
I think this is too early to call. I still think AK can be a mid to higher level B1G QB - the problem is that he is not being put into a position where it is possible for him to succeed and he has received zero help from the WRs and TEs, especially BSF, who should have been the veteran relief value when a play must absolutely must be made. To me, it seems like Fleck has lost the locker room and when that happens, everything looks terrible and execution and effort stop. In that situation, it is not possible to develop at QB.
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Take today's game. The very first pass at Ohio St against the #1-2 Buckeyes with 100,000 people in the stands is a rollout to his left. First he rolls out of there with no vision, he has to contort his body just to be running left....once he gets that under control now he's gotta contort the other way to attempt to pass across his body to a receiver he just got vision of. The result of the play was the best we could hope for....the pass fell incomplete versus the pick 6 it easily could have been given the constraints he was under on his first throw of the day. WTF? (How often does he complete this pass in practice?) It is a stupid, unnecessary ask that offers no advantage.
I have no idea about the coaching in practice but you'd like to start the day with a simple pass he is comfortable with that almost guarantees a completion. We didn't do that. Get him some confidence, get him breathing.
I don't think he is the guy but making it worse he is beaten up mentally. You listen to him after every game answer the same questions from the reporters...it's painful.
 

Schnauzer said:
I saw an 8-4 season coming on this past summer. Maybe even 9-3 or 10-2 if things went well.

Instead it has been the most disappointing season in years, maybe decades. “Instead” will be the word of choice through 7 sad developments to follow.,

So what were the things I didn’t see coming?

1. Kaliakmanis. I thought we were going to see a continuation of what we saw in the 2022 Wisconsin game and he’d continue to improve as a passer. Instead, I’ll call it: he is a bust.

2. Spann-Ford. I came into 2023 thinking Spann-Ford would play himself into the first round of the NFL. Instead he played himself into the short list of biggest regressions I have ever seen in a football helmet. It is a cruel joke to think he would be an anchor to a vastly improved receiver room that also featured…

3. CrAB. I assumed he’d be 100% after sitting a year. Unfortunately instead he is among the sad collection of guys that would never be the same after an ACL.

4. Fleck. I assumed we had the perfect brash young coach for the rapidly changing world of NIL and the transfer portal. Instead we have a guy that seems to be afraid of his own shadow, painfully conservative. Ironically as the losses mounted, the excuses did too and they centered on NIL - while losing a string of unthinkable games to teams that have the exact same limitations that the Gophers have.

5. Lindenberg. I figured we were going to see some NFL draft worthy linebacker play this season. Instead we saw walk ons, freshmen, and a glass jaw hamstring.

6. Rossi. Previous years led me to assume he could take 11 guys off the street and turn them into a top 20 defense. Instead, I learned the defensive depth, after a host of transfers and injuries, has left a roster worse than 11 guys off the street.

7. Running Back. After 2021 I figured lightening in the form of injury couldn’t hit the same place twice. It did. Perhaps some of that is on coaching for running a guy 40 times the minute he shows promise. But either way, we are into walk on territory here too, just like at linebacker and it shows.

What am I missing? I could have gone for 10 but this is at least 7 things I didn’t see coming that has resulted in a big turd of a season.
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VERDICT: GUILTY ON ALL COUNTS
 

EasyThere Pilgrim said:
That's not how it works. You don't improve year by year. There's no such thing as building a program anymore.

At a place like Minnesota, you simply have to compile a team each year...and hope they over-achieve.
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You don't improve every year, there are ups and downs. Butat a certain point, you hope there is a floor to how the downs are. 7 years in, these are things I had hoped we were past:

-going into games with the big boys (Michigan and OSU) feeling like it wasn't even worth playing the game (I'd still expect us to be longshots, but at least able to give ourselves a punchers chance)

-getting blown put by fringe top 25 teams (which UNC is turning out to be)

-getting blown out by last place teams (Purdue)

-blowing 21 point leads

-losing games as double digit favorites
 


NotAFanOfBecky said:
I wouldn't say we don't get highly rated prospects. We don't get enough of them. Darius Taylor had offers from Michigan and Notre Dame, Koi for this coming years class has tOSU, Michigan, USC, Florida State. Those guys definitely had offers from the big boys. Most of his other recruits have multiple P5 offers. I know Jerry Kill and his philosophy was go for the guys that blossom late, that have the height/weight/speed that are a big fish in a small pond type of thing. They were not highly rated, most didn't have P5 offers but they could play. I also think that the recruiting in the BiG has gotten better over the last 3-5 years though too. I think if we can get some more maturity in the o-line and some better play at QB/WR/DB that this team could be much improved next year. Of course the portal and if some of the top end recruits don't stick and it could all fall apart.
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Yes, I should have written "enough" highly-rated. My point, still, is that there is something that keeps enough talent from choosing to play in Minneapolis. Even though they once did. If the U cared about this, they would research it to see why.
 

Goldmember said:
What!?! Why? How?
:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
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Not blow the NW, Illinois and Purdue games. And then beat a very beatable WI team next week. They’d be 9-3.

If AK had just improved a little bit from last year and we stayed relatively healthy, 9 wins is very realistic.
 

Schnauzer said:
I saw an 8-4 season coming on this past summer. Maybe even 9-3 or 10-2 if things went well.

Instead it has been the most disappointing season in years, maybe decades. “Instead” will be the word of choice through 7 sad developments to follow.,

So what were the things I didn’t see coming?

1. Kaliakmanis. I thought we were going to see a continuation of what we saw in the 2022 Wisconsin game and he’d continue to improve as a passer. Instead, I’ll call it: he is a bust.

2. Spann-Ford. I came into 2023 thinking Spann-Ford would play himself into the first round of the NFL. Instead he played himself into the short list of biggest regressions I have ever seen in a football helmet. It is a cruel joke to think he would be an anchor to a vastly improved receiver room that also featured…

3. CrAB. I assumed he’d be 100% after sitting a year. Unfortunately instead he is among the sad collection of guys that would never be the same after an ACL.

4. Fleck. I assumed we had the perfect brash young coach for the rapidly changing world of NIL and the transfer portal. Instead we have a guy that seems to be afraid of his own shadow, painfully conservative. Ironically as the losses mounted, the excuses did too and they centered on NIL - while losing a string of unthinkable games to teams that have the exact same limitations that the Gophers have.

5. Lindenberg. I figured we were going to see some NFL draft worthy linebacker play this season. Instead we saw walk ons, freshmen, and a glass jaw hamstring.

6. Rossi. Previous years led me to assume he could take 11 guys off the street and turn them into a top 20 defense. Instead, I learned the defensive depth, after a host of transfers and injuries, has left a roster worse than 11 guys off the street.

7. Running Back. After 2021 I figured lightening in the form of injury couldn’t hit the same place twice. It did. Perhaps some of that is on coaching for running a guy 40 times the minute he shows promise. But either way, we are into walk on territory here too, just like at linebacker and it shows.

What am I missing? I could have gone for 10 but this is at least 7 things I didn’t see coming that has resulted in a big turd of a season.
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Good summary. there are two things I would add:

1) I thought we'd get some help from players who transferred in. Instead, we got a running back who can't hang onto the ball, a couple receivers who can't get open (and sometimes can't catch), and... I am not sure what else.

2) I thought there would be some pleasant surprises and individual overachievements along the way. Instead... I have to think hard about which player or coach has been a pleasant surprise. Jordan Nubin I guess. Not much beyond that.
 




Yes he came in at the end for at least one play, I recall.


Apparently, Selig has been banged up this year, according to Ryan Burns.

That was the transfer LB, where again we should've added more to our depth than we did.
 

New OC's with zero experience at this level

If you read and believe Ryan Burns, in his five takeaways he is pounding the drum that whoever we have at OC does not matter. Fleck owns and controls wayyy more than we all understand on offense.
 

Good points well expressed. I expected 7-5 (NC, OSU, MIch, either Wis or Iowa, and one upset by a weaker opponent.) I over-estimated the team. Now 5-7 seems more likely. Too hard to even guess what next year will bring
 

Crosby said:
Good summary. there are two things I would add:

1) I thought we'd get some help from players who transferred in. Instead, we got a running back who can't hang onto the ball, a couple receivers who can't get open (and sometimes can't catch), and... I am not sure what else.

2) I thought there would be some pleasant surprises and individual overachievements along the way. Instead... I have to think hard about which player or coach has been a pleasant surprise. Jordan Nubin I guess. Not much beyond that.
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Fleck whiffing on almost every portal player he brought in this year is a big part of the problem.
 



Very very disappointed but look around the country.
TCU, in the National Title Game LAST year, is 5-6.
Clemson, 6 straight playoff appearances from 2015 and National TITLES in 2016 and 2018, is 4-4 in their conference.
Cincinnati, 13-1 only two years ago with the loss coming to Alabama in the National Semi-Final, is 3-8.
Wisconsin is an underwhelming 6-5.
Former blue blood Nebraska (84-13) is 5-6.
Colorado, with all of the hype surrounding Coach Prime, is 1-7 in their conference.
Mississippi State and Arkansas are 1-6 in their conference.
Florida has 3 National Titles in the last 27 years, this year has a record of 5-6.
Michigan State has 3 Big Ten Titles in the last 14 years, including one Playoff Appearance vs Alabama, is 4-7.

Should Minnesota settle for where they are. Of course not. But it is NOT EASY to build and maintain a top tier college football program.
 
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gopherbadgerman said:
I thought they’d go 7-5. I still think if they beat Wisconsin is not a lost season.
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This. People here like to talk about beating Iowa and wisconsin as being a good year regardless of what happens the rest of the season. Here we are with that possibility in the same season and it feels like many of the same people want to kick Fleck out the door.
 

Gophers7NatTitlesBadgers0 said:
This. People here like to talk about beating Iowa and wisconsin as being a good year regardless of what happens the rest of the season. Here we are with that possibility in the same season and it feels like many of the same people want to kick Fleck out the door.
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SOME people here talk about that. Not many.
 

Continue to be impressed by the bettors and where they think any given team lands when the fat lady sings.

I think the Gophers came in for this year's season at 6.5 wins. Remarkably the NW game was a Defensive collapse with the Offense frozen in place, so holding on there with everything else constant still only get's us to 6 wins with one game left.

Would'a, should'a, and could'a don't win games but we have performed pretty much exactly where the money went. Sigh.
 

MplsGopher said:
New OC's with zero experience at this level

If you read and believe Ryan Burns, in his five takeaways he is pounding the drum that whoever we have at OC does not matter. Fleck owns and controls wayyy more than we all understand on offense.
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I think we all understand it for the most part. My guess is KC was able to control that but probably PJ got a big head now that he’s a big shot $6 million coach and KC ran away twice.
 

EasyThere Pilgrim said:
That's not how it works. You don't improve year by year. There's no such thing as building a program anymore.

At a place like Minnesota, you simply have to compile a team each year...and hope they over-achieve.
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Ok. Thats on Fleck too.
 
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Gopherchase said:
I think we all understand it for the most part. My guess is KC was able to control that but probably PJ got a big head now that he’s a big shot $6 million coach and KC ran away twice.
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I'm with your main point on HC control but offer that if KC went south, west, or even stayed in the Midwest, that would more strongly support the point than what happened with him going east, which is where his family roots are from.
 

GophersInIowa said:
Not blow the NW, Illinois and Purdue games. And then beat a very beatable WI team next week. They’d be 9-3.

If AK had just improved a little bit from last year and we stayed relatively healthy, 9 wins is very realistic.
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No offense, but I dont see how you make an argument MN blew the Purdue game. They got pounded. AK playing better would not have changed the outcome of that on IMO. Illinions and Purdue sure. Can also argue the Nebraska and Iowa blew the games to us, so it goes both ways...
 

Tech Machine said:
Regarding No. 4
Coach Fleck seems to have lost something. His demeaner just has seemed off since the NW 4th quarter. He just does not seem like the same guy on the sidelines that he was. I didn’t care for his personality when he first started(see Brewster & Wacker) but as time went on and we were still developing DBs and some solid Linebackers. Tackling was good, blocking was good. I accepted him as a decent coach.

Still pulling for him to right the ship(boat), but something is more than a little wrong, beating Wisconsin and winning a bowl game would still be just, lipstick on a pig I fear.
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Spot on summary. I too feel thatthe NW hit him as big failure that he could not control or explain. Shell shocked would be term to explain
 

I expected the QB from the Wisconsin game last year. There was some creativity in the offense at that point. What nobody expected was "on the job training" from the OC position and people (but especially at QB) who seem scared to make plays, or lack the ability to think for themselves to do it. Is the Offense micromanaged that much?

Also feel a staff shake-up is needed. Some of our coaches need to coach like their hair is on fire, vs the perceived complacency there is now. Coyle needs to inform PJ to stay away from the Offense and work on game managelment. Less "Row the Boat" and more "Take Charge!!". Some of the old message isn't resonating....
 

hello-world said:
Really? Coming into this season, Minnesota:
  • Had a first-year starting QB who was struggling with accuracy
  • Lost the linchpin of its offensive line
  • Lost its 'cultural leader' in Mo Ibrahim
  • Lost its leading tackler on defense
  • Lost its best safety
  • Is playing the toughest schedule that it has played in several years
Moreover, the Vegas line was 6.5 wins (actually opened at 6)

If 8-4 was your baseline for the Gophers this year then that's kinda on you.
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None of these are issues at successful programs
 

EasyThere Pilgrim said:
It's hard to over-achieve every year. This year Fleck has us playing to our talent level or maybe just slightly above.
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Which then is on Fleck as the OP mentioned. He's the roster manager. He's the salesman to get better talent. He's the one we though would adapt to NIL and continue to get the kids leaving Michigan and Clemson. But he doesn't want to put in that work. He's said out loud he builds a roster through 4 years in the program. Well that worked in 1996, but no longer. He whines about NIL while losing to teams that are in no better position than we are.
 

holereader said:
None of these are issues at successful programs
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Sure they are. Clemson having a down year this year, Florida, Auburn, etc. not meeting expectations because they don’t have the personnel this year. Etc. Etc.

All programs have down periods with new QBs. The exception (Tua) proves the rule and even he came in after someone who has turned out to be a pro-bowl QB (Hurts)
 

hello-world said:
Sure they are. Clemson having a down year this year, Florida, Auburn, etc. not meeting expectations because they don’t have the personnel this year. Etc. Etc.

All programs have down periods with new QBs. The exception (Tua) proves the rule and even he came in after someone who has turned out to be a pro-bowl QB (Hurts)
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As the late Jack Brickhouse (the longtime broadcaster for the Chicago Cubs) once said “everyone has a bad century now and then”
 

Tech Machine said:
Regarding No. 4
Coach Fleck seems to have lost something. His demeaner just has seemed off since the NW 4th quarter. He just does not seem like the same guy on the sidelines that he was. I didn’t care for his personality when he first started(see Brewster & Wacker) but as time went on and we were still developing DBs and some solid Linebackers. Tackling was good, blocking was good. I accepted him as a decent coach.

Still pulling for him to right the ship(boat), but something is more than a little wrong, beating Wisconsin and winning a bowl game would still be just, lipstick on a pig I fear.
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Speaking of tackling, was anyone else taught in high school that when you are closing on a ball carrier you widen your stance and focus on the carrier’s torso? How many times yesterday did we see DBs racing in and guess which way a receiver would spin only to look like a fool as the receiver proceeded up field? And what about wrapping up? They must the being taught to just push opponents down.
 

on Recruiting - even 4* and 5* players are not always sure things. HS recruiting involves looking at 16- and 17-year old kids and projecting what they have the potential to grow into in 3 or 4 years. so almost any team is going to miss on some HS recruits who just don't pan out.

that, in part, is why some teams are shifting their focus - going with fewer HS recruits and trying to get more players from the portal. Because - a portal player is older and has played some college football. you're getting more of a known commodity. Now, if you're taking a portal player from a lower level, then you still have to project how they will transition to D1, but in theory there should be fewer "misses" with the portal than with HS recruits.

Fleck has said he still wants to be a developmental program with the recruiting focus on HS players. If that's going to be the case - and IF he can't land the 4* and 5* studs due to NIL - then Fleck has almost no margin for error. He can't afford to miss on many recruits - or the result is a team with no depth. (like this season....)
 


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