Alvarez says MN and UW in same division

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AR's senario has some flexibility.

Wisconsin could have NE/MSU/IA/IL as protected
Nebraska could have MN/WIS/PSU
Iowa could have WIS/MN


How much does Alvarez play in this with his ties to NE and IA?
 

I've tried to not put too much time into this stuff, but this honestly makes me feel a little sick to my stomach. And I don't think its a hangover.
 

ESPN sure makes it seem that it's a lock for WI and IA to have the protected rivalry...
 


There are other rivalries besides OSU-Michigan. East-west is the only split that makes any sense at all. They've learned nothing from the ACC.
 


MrGopher said:
Rittenberg says:

http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/14936/division-dominoes-wisconsin-iowa-to-split

He predicts divisions will be...

Division 1
Michigan Michigan State Iowa Nebraska Illinois Northwestern
Division 2
Ohio State Penn State Wisconsin Minnesota Purdue Indiana

Oh hell no!! That is nearly the worst of all possible alignments for the Gophers!
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Below are al time records. Putting us with WI, OSU, PSU, IN, PUR would match us with 4 of the 5 current B10 teams we've played LEAST. It would also take us out of the division of Nebraska, the current B10 team they have played MOST.

Team W L T Total
WI 57 52 8 117
IA 58 42 2 102
MI 24 70 3 97
NW 50 30 5 85
IN 37 26 3 66
PUR 33 30 3 66
IL 32 28 3 63
NE 29 20 2 51
OSU 7 42 49
MSU 17 25 42
PSU 4 7 11
 

WilliamsArenaGuy said:
Alvarez did not say UM and UW were in the ame division. The author said it "seems certain," which is still pure speculation.

Why is Alvarez giving this info away anyway? Something seems weird about that.
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I agree that he didn't say Minnesota and Wisconsin in the same division.

Team W L T Total
MN
WI 57 52 8 117
IA 58 42 2 102
MI 24 70 3 97
NW 50 30 5 85
IN 37 26 3 66
PUR 33 30 3 66
IL 32 28 3 63
NE 29 20 2 51
OSU 7 42 49
MSU 17 25 42
PSU 4 7 11

I'm thinking the above North South fits what Alvarez is hoping for. This, with a crossover with Wisconsin would be a good deal for the Gophers. Red = North, Gophers all time records to the right.
 

badgergopher said:
I agree that he didn't say Minnesota and Wisconsin in the same division.

Team W L T Total
MN
WI 57 52 8 117
IA 58 42 2 102
MI 24 70 3 97
NW 50 30 5 85
IN 37 26 3 66
PUR 33 30 3 66
IL 32 28 3 63
NE 29 20 2 51
OSU 7 42 49
MSU 17 25 42
PSU 4 7 11

I'm thinking the above North South fits what Alvarez is hoping for. This, with a crossover with Wisconsin would be a good deal for the Gophers. Red = North, Gophers all time records to the right.
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If they don't go east-West, that is my hope for our division right there.
 





MrGopher said:
I agree. Not sure how the skunks to the east would like it though. But i don't really care about that.
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What do you mean? I thought they were God's gift to the earth? tOSU clearly can't stand in their way..... :rolleyes:
 

If we can't even get the fans of one team to agree on the split, maybe we need to hope that at least one or two teams hold out so strongly for their favorite split that the Big Ten will have to kick them out. Then, there would not have to be a championship game and they would not have to split into two divisions! Then, we could continue to play an 8 game conference schedule and have some teams rotate on and off the schedule. It appears that too many fans are going to get their feelings hurt, get their undies in a bunch and leave in a nasty mood. Maybe Nebraska should just go back to from where they came? Or maybe OSU, PSU, Michigan, Nebraska should invite four or eight other powers to join them in a brand new power conference all of their own, leaving MSU, Indiana, Iowa, Purdue, Wisconsin, Illinois, NU and Minnesota to have all the east/west splits they want. We may have gotten what we wished for with a championship game, but, we may never really get the split that we want. Daddy Delano will just need to split the stick of gum as close to the middle as he can and we will just have to take what we get. Nothing is perfect. Never has been and never will be. Let's just go along for the ride and see what happens. I think that in the end it will all work out the way it is supposed to. After 25 years of playing, OSU will have won 8 championships. Michigan will have won 6. PSU will have won 3 championships and Nebraska will have won 2. Wisconsin will have won 1. Iowa will have won 1. Illinois will have won 1. Purdue will have won 1. MSU will have won 1. Minnesota, NU and Indiana will fight it out to see who wins the last one available during that quarter of a century period. That's pretty much what life in the power conference that splits into two divisions with a championship game will look like. Not any better for us, but possibly just a little worse if we continue to do football the way we do football.
 

With all this attention being given to the OSU-Mich rivalry...

Let's say both go undefeated until October, then OSU wins. Then OSU continues undefeated all the way to the BigTen championship game. But Michigan also finishes strong and wins the other division. (The BigTen bigwigs and fat cats would need to change their pants from sheer joy).

But wait!! A national title berth is up for grabs for OSU, but they have to play Michigan to get there... Michigan, so inspired by their earlier loss, plus their general hatred for OSU manages to beat them. Oh no!!!

Then LSU or some other lame SEC school beats Texas in the National Championship.... again. And the BigTen looks lame... again. Plus now Michigan gets a BigTen title..... even though they have the same overall record as a team who beat them in the regular season!

Teams could stomach such an injustice, yes.... but not bitter, bitter rivals. THAT is why you need to have bitter rivals decide their supremacy in one game, before the title game.
 



GopherOnWheels said:
What do you mean? I thought they were God's gift to the earth? tOSU clearly can't stand in their way..... :rolleyes:
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Roll your eyes all you want, no team has more wins or a better winning percentage over OSU (other than Texas at 2-1) than Wisconsin over the past ten years. No team other than Texas even has a winning record against OSU. If you asked Buckeye fans who's been the biggest thorn in their side, I'm sure you'd get a plurality naming the Badgers.
 

FWIW - a formerly good source says...

This guy said Nebraska would join the Big 10 before anyone else was even speculating that way, so take it FWIW.

Wisconsin, Minnesota, OSU, PSU, Purdue, Indiana

Nebraska, Michigan, Michigan State, Iowa, Illinois, Northwestern


I don't love it, but at least we keep the axe within the division. I don't like losing the short trips to Illinois and Iowa, but we'd still be playing them regularly.

Link
 

TAW said:
This guy said Nebraska would join the Big 10 before anyone else was even speculating that way, so take it FWIW.

Wisconsin, Minnesota, OSU, PSU, Purdue, Indiana

Nebraska, Michigan, Michigan State, Iowa, Illinois, Northwestern


I don't love it, but at least we keep the axe within the division. I don't like losing the short trips to Illinois and Iowa, but we'd still be playing them regularly.

Link
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Minnesota fans would be looking at one Division foe within 500 miles in this god forsaken scheme. If they won't go with a East/West split and are so dead set on keeping the four "national schools" balance and want to keep Michigan and OSU split why not have MN, NE, IA,WI,MI and either NW or IL and be done with it?

Better yet, swap Minnesota and MSU, throw-out the "football only" plan, and also apply it to basketball. Then yep, those would be some fine divisions!:D
 

Iceland12 said:
Minnesota fans would be looking at one Division foe within 500 miles in this god forsaken scheme. If they won't go with a East/West split and are so dead set on keeping the four "national schools" balance and want to keep Michigan and OSU split why not have MN, NE, IA,WI,MI and either NW or IL and be done with it?

Better yet, swap Minnesota and MSU, throw-out the "football only" plan, and also apply it to basketball. Then yep, those would be some fine divisions!:D
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Wouldn't work unless MSU came w/ Michigan since there'll be 1 cross over rival max right now. This also doesn't fit the competitive balance model if you look at the top 6 programs (the West would have 4).

The East/West is the best scenario unless you A) think Michigan and OSU should be in separate divisions and/or B) you think the 4 "brand name" programs need to be split 2 and 2. Sadly, the Big Ten appears to want both A and B.
 

What would you guys think of this alignment?

After a lot of thinking to see what would make the most parties happy without doing too much damage control, I came up with this:

Division 1 / Protected X-Overs / Division 2
-Minn -------------------------> -WI
-Iowa -------------------------> -Penn St.
-Mich. -------------------------> -OSU
-NW -------------------------> -Illinois
-MSU -------------------------> -Indiana
-Neb. -------------------------> -Purdue

Reasoning:
-seems as though Delany will split up IA/WI and Mich/OSU anyway, and this divides the 4 top teams evenly as well as establishes a general competitive balance.
-All of the most important rivalries of all schools are intact, with many being a protected crossover to possibly add exciting rematches in the title game.
-This alignment actually is somewhat geographical as well, although when I thought of this it was not intended.

Downsides:
-Would lose continuity with Heartland Trophy (WI/Iowa) game, but I'd say overall the Floyd of Rosedale is more historically significant.
-Would lose Land Grant trophy game between MSU and Penn State (but even many of their fans say its not really a rivalry matchup)
-The Nebraska-Purdue crossover isn't that sexy, but Nebraska does have MN, Iowa, and Michigan every year. And to tell you the truth, Nebraska doesn't really have a say in how we preserve our traditions.

Good? Bad? I think this is best possible scenario for not just us, but EVERYBODY collectively.
 

buddylee853 said:
What would you guys think of this alignment?

After a lot of thinking to see what would make the most parties happy without doing too much damage control, I came up with this:

Division 1 / Protected X-Overs / Division 2
-Minn -------------------------> -WI
-Iowa -------------------------> -Penn St.
-Mich. -------------------------> -OSU
-NW -------------------------> -Illinois
-MSU -------------------------> -Indiana
-Neb. -------------------------> -Purdue

Reasoning:
-seems as though Delany will split up IA/WI and Mich/OSU anyway, and this divides the 4 top teams evenly as well as establishes a general competitive balance.
-All of the most important rivalries of all schools are intact, with many being a protected crossover to possibly add exciting rematches in the title game.
-This alignment actually is somewhat geographical as well, although when I thought of this it was not intended.

Downsides:
-Would lose continuity with Heartland Trophy (WI/Iowa) game, but I'd say overall the Floyd of Rosedale is more historically significant.
-Would lose Land Grant trophy game between MSU and Penn State (but even many of their fans say its not really a rivalry matchup)
-The Nebraska-Purdue crossover isn't that sexy, but Nebraska does have MN, Iowa, and Michigan every year. And to tell you the truth, Nebraska doesn't really have a say in how we preserve our traditions.

Good? Bad? I think this is best possible scenario for not just us, but EVERYBODY collectively.
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First thought is that this isn't bad. Wisky fans wouldn't like it much I think, but eh. No true geographical outliers with plenty of "close" games for in division trips. I'd have Nebraska play PSU for a cross-over and give Iowa the game with Purdue though (make the TV folks happy).
 

GoAUpher said:
Wouldn't work unless MSU came w/ Michigan since there'll be 1 cross over rival max right now. This also doesn't fit the competitive balance model if you look at the top 6 programs (the West would have 4).

The East/West is the best scenario unless you A) think Michigan and OSU should be in separate divisions and/or B) you think the 4 "brand name" programs need to be split 2 and 2. Sadly, the Big Ten appears to want both A and B.
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Yep, those were my points also except we disagree on the Top 6, I think that much like in basketball, it's over for Michigan . The question really becomes what do you do then?
 

Iceland12 said:
Minnesota fans would be looking at one Division foe within 500 miles in this god forsaken scheme. If they won't go with a East/West split and are so dead set on keeping the four "national schools" balance and want to keep Michigan and OSU split why not have MN, NE, IA,WI,MI and either NW or IL and be done with it?

Better yet, swap Minnesota and MSU, throw-out the "football only" plan, and also apply it to basketball. Then yep, those would be some fine divisions!:D
Click to expand...

We will still have a protected rival and play two others in the other division every year. I still hope this is not the arrangement.
 

buddylee853 said:
What would you guys think of this alignment?

After a lot of thinking to see what would make the most parties happy without doing too much damage control, I came up with this:

Division 1 / Protected X-Overs / Division 2
-Minn -------------------------> -WI
-Iowa -------------------------> -Penn St.
-Mich. -------------------------> -OSU
-NW -------------------------> -Illinois
-MSU -------------------------> -Indiana
-Neb. -------------------------> -Purdue

Reasoning:
-seems as though Delany will split up IA/WI and Mich/OSU anyway, and this divides the 4 top teams evenly as well as establishes a general competitive balance.
-All of the most important rivalries of all schools are intact, with many being a protected crossover to possibly add exciting rematches in the title game.
-This alignment actually is somewhat geographical as well, although when I thought of this it was not intended.

Downsides:
-Would lose continuity with Heartland Trophy (WI/Iowa) game, but I'd say overall the Floyd of Rosedale is more historically significant.
-Would lose Land Grant trophy game between MSU and Penn State (but even many of their fans say its not really a rivalry matchup)
-The Nebraska-Purdue crossover isn't that sexy, but Nebraska does have MN, Iowa, and Michigan every year. And to tell you the truth, Nebraska doesn't really have a say in how we preserve our traditions.

Good? Bad? I think this is best possible scenario for not just us, but EVERYBODY collectively.
Click to expand...

It seems to satisfy more things then most outlines I've read. Nice job.
 

Iceland12 said:
It seems to satisfy more things then most outlines I've read. Nice job.
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With all the versions out there right now I'm surprised something like this hasn't been tossed out. Maybe b/c Div 2 seems to have a soft underbelly with Purdue, Illinois, and Indiana? Or maybe b/c Iowa that either Iowa or Nebraska end up with a cross-over that doesn't make sense?
 

GoAUpher said:
With all the versions out there right now I'm surprised something like this hasn't been tossed out. Maybe b/c Div 2 seems to have a soft underbelly with Purdue, Illinois, and Indiana? Or maybe b/c Iowa that either Iowa or Nebraska end up with a cross-over that doesn't make sense?
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I think, generally speaking, cross-over games only matter if things aren't satisfied in their division. It's important to Michigan since they're not in Ohio State's division & important to Minnesota & Wisconsin because they're not in each other's division. But teams like Michigan State or Penn State probably wouldn't care who their cross-over game is with because their main wants & needs are satisfied with division alignment (MSU has Michigan & Penn State has Ohio State). Whether MSU doesn't get to play Illinois, Indiana, Purdue or Penn State probably isn't as big a deal, I'm guessing. They're getting what the desire most: Michigan.

I think that's a pretty reasonable alignment, mostly because it keeps us with a lot of west schools and preserves Wisconsin. To me, it honestly has nothing to do with how good Ohio State & Penn State are; it's their location & history. We lose nearly all the time to Michigan, but at least the results are written on a jug. And we've played Nebraska more than we've played Ohio State. I just don't feel connected to OSU & PSU like I do with Michigan...don't know why.
 

FireDaveLee said:
I think, generally speaking, cross-over games only matter if things aren't satisfied in their division. It's important to Michigan since they're not in Ohio State's division & important to Minnesota & Wisconsin because they're not in each other's division. But teams like Michigan State or Penn State probably wouldn't care who their cross-over game is with because their main wants & needs are satisfied with division alignment (MSU has Michigan & Penn State has Ohio State). Whether MSU doesn't get to play Illinois, Indiana, Purdue or Penn State probably isn't as big a deal, I'm guessing. They're getting what the desire most: Michigan.

I think that's a pretty reasonable alignment, mostly because it keeps us with a lot of west schools and preserves Wisconsin. To me, it honestly has nothing to do with how good Ohio State & Penn State are; it's their location & history. We lose nearly all the time to Michigan, but at least the results are written on a jug. And we've played Nebraska more than we've played Ohio State. I just don't feel connected to OSU & PSU like I do with Michigan...don't know why.
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I agree, and I think proximity of the schools plays a big part in feeling connected to one another. The only school I could see complaining is Wisconsin, but I've heard many of their fans say they look forward to playing OSU and PSU to try and beat the elite.. well, here would be their chance.

Also, with those points aside, the Big Ten has the annual matchups of Floyd, the Little Brown Jug, the Ax, the Illibuck, the Old Oaken Bucket, the in-state rivalries of Mich-MSU, NW-Illinois, Indiana-Purdue, AND of course you get the Game, Mich.-OSU.
 

buddylee853 said:
I agree, and I think proximity of the schools plays a big part in feeling connected to one another. The only school I could see complaining is Wisconsin, but I've heard many of their fans say they look forward to playing OSU and PSU to try and beat the elite.. well, here would be their chance.

Also, with those points aside, the Big Ten has the annual matchups of Floyd, the Little Brown Jug, the Ax, the Illibuck, the Old Oaken Bucket, the in-state rivalries of Mich-MSU, NW-Illinois, Indiana-Purdue, AND of course you get the Game, Mich.-OSU.
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E-mail it to Maturi and any other AD you can find e-mail addy's for. First time I've seen this permutation so who knows if they've considered it.
 

buddylee853 said:
AND of course you get the Game, Mich.-OSU.
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Only after the conference kills the game by moving it up in the calendar and creating the chance for a rematch. I think it's ironic that one of the main goals is preserving this game, all while needlessly tinkering with it. It's just about perfect, as is. I'd like UM and OSU to go the way of Auburn-Alabama, who remained in the same division, rather than Nebraska-Oklahoma, who were split. This seems unlikely at this point, but I'm still holding out hope. An admittedly naive hope.
 

GoAUpher said:
E-mail it to Maturi and any other AD you can find e-mail addy's for. First time I've seen this permutation so who knows if they've considered it.
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Just emailed both Joel Maturi and Jim Delany.

SonOfTheVarsity said:
Only after the conference kills the game by moving it up in the calendar and creating the chance for a rematch. I think it's ironic that one of the main goals is preserving this game, all while needlessly tinkering with it. It's just about perfect, as is. I'd like UM and OSU to go the way of Auburn-Alabama, who remained in the same division, rather than Nebraska-Oklahoma, who were split. This seems unlikely at this point, but I'm still holding out hope. An admittedly naive hope.
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I agree, but it kind of sucks because its technically being tinkered with by adding a championship game as it is.

It seems to me like it's either a lose-lose or a win-win situation for Michigan and OSU:

-lose-lose because moving the game's play date will mess with the tradition of having it be the final, intense matchup between the two teams, but at the same time not moving it will either diminish the importance of the game because of a more important championship game the next week, OR The Game will overshadow the championship game the next week, resulting in lower ratings and less $$$

-win-win because of the possible rematch down the road in what will be the most important single game of the season, and because moving the match to October will not overshadow the championship game as much.

It sucks, I know, but in the end splitting up the teams might be best, if only for the fact that, as it is, The Game in the last week of November could very likely be overshadowed by the B10 Championship Game for the right to go to the Rose Bowl..
 

Frank the Tank again brings some rational thinking to the debate. I like his setup.

DIVISION A
Michigan
Ohio State
Wisconsin
Minnesota
Northwestern
Purdue

DIVISION B
Penn State
Michigan State
Nebraska
Iowa
Illinois
Indiana

PERMANENT CROSS-DIVISION RIVALRIES
Michigan – Michigan State
Ohio State – Penn State
Wisconsin – Nebraska
Minnesota – Iowa
Northwestern - Illinois
Purdue – Indiana
 

TAW said:
Frank the Tank again brings some rational thinking to the debate. I like his setup.

DIVISION A
Michigan
Ohio State
Wisconsin
Minnesota
Northwestern
Purdue

DIVISION B
Penn State
Michigan State
Nebraska
Iowa
Illinois
Indiana

PERMANENT CROSS-DIVISION RIVALRIES
Michigan – Michigan State
Ohio State – Penn State
Wisconsin – Nebraska
Minnesota – Iowa
Northwestern - Illinois
Purdue – Indiana
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I like to keep out of the fray of this alignment talk (as I am operating under the assumption that we will be completely and utterly screwed), but I had to comment on this.

That is an utter abortion of an alignment.

You could come up with a better one by having a chimp fling its own feces against the wall.

Frank the Tank is usually quite reputable, but I would be embarrassed to have my name attached to this and put it on the interwebs.
 

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