Allegations of racial comments made by UW regarding King

[BarnBurner]

This is classic Built.

GH: Wisconsin sucks...

Built: Well now hold on there Hoss because Minnesota sucks just as bad if not worse and everybody likes Wisconsin - even your coach. But I'm frequent this board here because I'm a gopher fan.

Do you get a bonus check from the Badger program for comments like this or just when another Minnesota kid starts for Wisconsin?

 

[Moonlight]

Agree with much of this. Remember though, we brought very shady characters here and yes it was known those kids had bad ethics. People on the recruiting trail knew, our coach knew. Even Pitino likes Brad.

I think your point is currently irrelevant. This shows that bringing in so-called squeeky clean white kids isnt going to guarantee zero problems in a program. We are discussing on court behavior and I refuse to go back to the "Pitino is worse" argument here with you.
Perhaps, Wisconsin Madison is afraid of black athletes. I note their stars are generally white. Same with Iowa. Recruiting in college women's basketball often has a covert anti-lesbian angle beneath the surface - veiled message of, do want your daughter to have a lesbian coach and be with a bunch of lesbians? In this case - do you want your suburban baby boy (a good description of Brad by all accounts) to mix in with these city kids who may have come from a troubled background?

 

[Spaulding!No!]

I always loved the - He is more of a 'Marquette' type of player.

 

[MplsGopher]

You're acting like people haven't made it up for their benefit several times.

Impeccable logic.

"A guy did a thing one time. Therefore, I'm justified in wondering aloud if someone else did that thing."

 

[Ope3]

I think your point is currently irrelevant. This shows that bringing in so-called squeeky clean white kids isnt going to guarantee zero problems in a program. We are discussing on court behavior and I refuse to go back to the "Pitino is worse" argument here with you.
Perhaps, Wisconsin Madison is afraid of black athletes. I note their stars are generally white. Same with Iowa. Recruiting in college women's basketball often has a covert anti-lesbian angle beneath the surface - veiled message of, do want your daughter to have a lesbian coach and be with a bunch of lesbians? In this case - do you want your suburban baby boy (a good description of Brad by all accounts) to mix in with these city kids who may have come from a troubled background?

I hope you are being sarcastic, because basketball stars this century include Devin Harris, Jordan Taylor, Alando Tucker and Nigel Hayes. Football players just off the top of my head, Melvin Gordan & Russell Wilson.

 

[MplsGopher]

I hope you are being sarcastic, because basketball stars this century include Devin Harris, Jordan Taylor, Alando Tucker and Nigel Hayes. Football players just off the top of my head, Melvin Gordan & Russell Wilson.

Yeah? 2 in 20 years? Dang!

 

[Spaulding!No!]

go ahead and lock this thread up.

 

[builtbadgers]

I hope you are being sarcastic, because basketball stars this century include Devin Harris, Jordan Taylor, Alando Tucker and Nigel Hayes. Football players just off the top of my head, Melvin Gordan & Russell Wilson.

Duany,Flowers, C. Taylor, Linton and on and on. Hundreds of football players.

 

[Ope3]

Yeah? 2 in 20 years? Dang!

I prefaced by saying "off the top" of my head." 2 pretty big names, probably biggest stars along with JJ Watt and Joe Thomas. I should have included Jonathan Taylor, also about as big of a star as they come. Glad he's going pro.

 

[MplsGopher]

Duany,Flowers, C. Taylor, Linton and on and on. Hundreds of football players.

And how about the percentage of the undergrad student body that's white, as compared to the percentage of white high school students in Wisconsin?

 

[TurfGopher]

I think your point is currently irrelevant. This shows that bringing in so-called squeeky clean white kids isnt going to guarantee zero problems in a program. We are discussing on court behavior and I refuse to go back to the "Pitino is worse" argument here with you.
Perhaps, Wisconsin Madison is afraid of black athletes. I note their stars are generally white. Same with Iowa. Recruiting in college women's basketball often has a covert anti-lesbian angle beneath the surface - veiled message of, do want your daughter to have a lesbian coach and be with a bunch of lesbians? In this case - do you want your suburban baby boy (a good description of Brad by all accounts) to mix in with these city kids who may have come from a troubled background?

So you're telling me lesbians play basketball?!!

 

[Moonlight]

I prefaced by saying "off the top" of my head." 2 pretty big names, probably biggest stars along with JJ Watt and Joe Thomas. I should have included Jonathan Taylor, also about as big of a star as they come. Glad he's going pro.

I do not follow college football as I work with concussion syndrome at times - can't stand seeing the injuries.
And right now is the moment we're talking about. How many times this year do you see a non-Wisconsin or Iowa team have zero black players on the court? But it's often with UW. Trice takes a breather and its all white guys. Patterns of recruitment.

 

[Marooned]

They knew of trouble with Lofton, Lynch, Mcneil, Morris. People knew of severe academic issues, behavior, violence. You talked to coaches, counselors there was trouble.

Such as? This is my issue with hindsight. People can say the guy picked his nose and, years later after doing something bad, will point saying "see! I knew they'd turn out this way!" which is absurd. I'm not doubting there were issues, but what exactly did people know beforehand? What academic issues? What behavior or violence was observed?
If we're to take your lead and judge Pitino for bringing in these guys, we should have the big picture of what they could've possibly known beforehand.

Should Gard be judged for bringing in a nut-puncher because the guy whined about fouls in HS? Nobody observed his nut-punching in HS. How could anyone think he'd be one in college?

 

[Ope3]

I do not follow college football as I work with concussion syndrome at times - can't stand seeing the injuries.
And right now is the moment we're talking about. How many times this year do you see a non-Wisconsin or Iowa team have zero black players on the court? But it's often with UW. Trice takes a breather and its all white guys. Patterns of recruitment.

Well umm, yeah...they do look even more like a MIAC school after Kobe King transferred. No kidding. They will be more racially diverse in the future assuming the Davis twins maintain there commits.

Your previous post indicated Wisconsin "stars". Quite frankly right now, they don't have any player that meets that's criteria. Who on that team right now will make All Big 10, even 2nd or 3rd team?

 

[Gopherfan84]

Such as? This is my issue with hindsight. People can say the guy picked his nose and, years later after doing something bad, will point saying "see! I knew they'd turn out this way!" which is absurd. I'm not doubting there were issues, but what exactly did people know beforehand? What academic issues? What behavior or violence was observed?
If we're to take your lead and judge Pitino for bringing in these guys, we should have the big picture of what they could've possibly known beforehand.

Should Gard be judged for bringing in a nut-puncher because the guy whined about fouls in HS? Nobody observed his nut-punching in HS. How could anyone think he'd be one in college?

Lofton was known for being a headcase and immature. He said so in an article written about him in the athletic. He would be late and had an attitude. I witnessed this at a team camp in person how he treated a couple of assistants. His leash was justifiably short.
Lynch had some rumors of his after hour antics at Northern Illinois as well, plus academically wasn't great in HS. If I knew these things, people in the know knew even more as I'm not a major guy with juice and never will be.
Cannot speak for McNeil or Morris, but Dorsey also had some character questions coming in as well. IW was an exception enrollee too. Since we have changed assistants and how we recruit we've steered away from these type of guys and we are seeing that with who we have added. Our last three recruiting cycles (counting 2020 recruits) have been very high character guys.

 

[Moonlight]

Such as? This is my issue with hindsight. People can say the guy picked his nose and, years later after doing something bad, will point saying "see! I knew they'd turn out this way!" which is absurd. I'm not doubting there were issues, but what exactly did people know beforehand? What academic issues? What behavior or violence was observed?
If we're to take your lead and judge Pitino for bringing in these guys, we should have the big picture of what they could've possibly known beforehand.

Should Gard be judged for bringing in a nut-puncher because the guy whined about fouls in HS? Nobody observed his nut-punching in HS. How could anyone think he'd be one in college?

And I don't have criticism for Gard bringing in Davison. I have criticism for the over-the-top defense [Captian America??] of his on court behavior that isnt really a tough judgment call. We all saw what he did - there's not another point of view to be had.
And I know that bias is a very unpopular topic here, but I still do not think a black player would get this kind of support [pass] anywhere. The last sanctioned dirty player was from Duke.

 

[Gopherfan84]

And I don't have criticism for Gard bringing in Davison. I have criticism for the over-the-top defense [Captian America??] of his on court behavior that isnt really a tough judgment call. We all saw what he did - there's not another point of view to be had.
And I know that bias is a very unpopular topic here, but I still do not think a black player would get this kind of support [pass] anywhere. The last sanctioned dirty player was from Duke.

100%

 

[Spaulding!No!]

Let's hope Mr. King is getting all the support he needs in Bucky's Fifth Quarter.

 

[ajmadison]

Badgers go after Black players in hoops and often don’t get them, probably for the following reasons:
1.Style of play, top Black kids didnt want to walk it up under Bo Ryan , hold it, never have a turnover, kill yourself on defense, etc , much prefer a more wide open style of play To show their talents in the open court.Rather than take the lesser kids, he recruited the local best white kids because that was who he could get.
2. Badgers have always frowned on one and done types, looking for 4, even 5 year players.
3. tough academics for athletic admissions, historically kept some kids away
4. Badgers recruit mostly around Wisconsin, Minn, surrounding Illinois area, a little Ohio , who lives there?
5. Badgers have mostly won historically with this style, why would they change?
this year Kobe King, Trice and Ford all were getting serious PT of the usual 8, what is broken here?
in football, academics, weather , student body make up, all are issues and team is fully integrated anyway.
Lastly, it’s a State school, shouldn’t we recruit Instate kids If we can win with them?
nothing here is broken.
Kobe wanted a different style of hoops, so did Andy Van Vilet who left last year and was a white kid.

 

[Gopherfan84]

Badgers go after Black players in hoops and often don’t get them, probably for the following reasons:
1.Style of play, top Black kids didnt want to walk it up under Bo Ryan , hold it, never have a turnover, kill yourself on defense, etc , much prefer a more wide open style of play To show their talents in the open court.Rather than take the lesser kids, he recruited the local best white kids because that was who he could get.
2. Badgers have always frowned on one and done types, looking for 4, even 5 year players.
3. tough academics for athletic admissions, historically kept some kids away
4. Badgers recruit mostly around Wisconsin, Minn, surrounding Illinois area, a little Ohio , who lives there?
5. Badgers have mostly won historically with this style, why would they change?
this year Kobe King, Trice and Ford all were getting serious PT of the usual 8, what is broken here?
in football, academics, weather , student body make up, all are issues and team is fully integrated anyway.
Lastly, it’s a State school, shouldn’t we recruit Instate kids If we can win with them?
nothing here is broken.
Kobe wanted a different style of hoops, so did Andy Van Vilet who left last year and was a white kid.

Do you remember who any of Bo Ryan's PG's were lol? Jordan Taylor, Traeveon Jackson, George Marshall, Trevon Hughes, and even Koenig is not "white". Come on man.

The rest of this list is also sad and ridiculous besides #4. Stanford has has plenty of black players, so does Harvard so the academic stuff isn't true. Your point about regional recruiting and specifically targeting non metro kids vs choosing suburban and other larger cities outside of the metropolis's is a stronger and reasonable argument.

 

[Spaulding!No!]

3. tough academics for athletic admissions, historically kept some kids away.

1920's all over again.

 

[ajmadison]

Do you remember who any of Bo Ryan's PG's were lol? Jordan Taylor, Traeveon Jackson, George Marshall, Trevon Hughes, and even Koenig is not "white". Come on man.

The rest of this list is also sad and ridiculous besides #4. Stanford has has plenty of black players, so does Harvard so the academic stuff isn't true. Your point about regional recruiting and specifically targeting non metro kids vs choosing suburban and other larger cities outside of the metropolis's is a stronger and reasonable argument.

Did I ever say Bo Ryan had no Black players?
Badgers went to back to back final fours and still couldn’t get the top kids.
the academic stuff is 100% true, we lost many good kids of both races over them.
the extra year of foreign language and Algerbra, above NCAA minimums were killers.

 

[Spaulding!No!]

Did I ever say Bo Ryan had no Black players?
Badgers went to back to back final fours and still couldn’t get the top kids.
the academic stuff is 100% true, we lost many good kids of both races over them.
the extra year of foreign language and Algerbra, above NCAA minimums were killers.

SO, yer saying you have fewer minorities on your team cuz they aren't smart enough. Is that what you are saying? Think about this.

 

[TurfGopher]

I always thought something was off in Wisconsin when Kuhn made a play for the packers the entire stadium erupted in roars of "KOOOON!" Seemed conveniently inappropriate for the other 19 men on the field.

ANYHOW

MN is just as racist as WI. Out state areas are much more conservative culturally. Minneapolis is a very liberal place but it's very segregated similar to Milwaukee. To imply that their athletic program operates in a shallow puddle of prejudice would be correct, but so does everything in our culture.

Madison is a Mecca for suburban white kids from Minneapolis, Milwaukee, and Chicago. It has everything we grew up watching in teen comedy movies. Wild house parties, Packed football stadiums, & drunken coeds. It certainly has it flaws too but its very attractive to teenagers.

 

[Gopherfan84]

Did I ever say Bo Ryan had no Black players?
Badgers went to back to back final fours and still couldn’t get the top kids.
the academic stuff is 100% true, we lost many good kids of both races over them.
the extra year of foreign language and Algerbra, above NCAA minimums were killers.

You legitimately said top black players didn't want to play for Bo Ryan. I'd say those guys were all top kids and not white. It's not like they are DII kids.

So how does Stanford and Harvard and all these other top academic schools still admit black kids? I'm saying your argument is flawed is all. Wisconsin and Iowa for example have more white kids than a lot of programs. That has to do with your point about what region they recruit.

 

[CoMn]

I'm not buying that it was the strength coach. Leaving the program that you have been with for three years and committed the coach who recruited you while leaving this late in the season? In my opinion, it would take someone higher up in the program to leave a program this late in the season.

Or the higher ups simply didn't care and tolerated racism

 

[CoMn]

I have to think the UW legal counsel strictly prohibits Gard for saying anything, regardless of how he intends the comments. How this ultimately reflects on Gard is what did he know, when did he know, what did he do about it or who did he it report to?

Whether or not it matters the strength coach was a Bo Ryan hire.

If Gard cannot say we don't tolerate racism then I would say the problem is systemic in the University. The timing of comments is important and if they come out and say nothing...that itself is telling me that they are more concerned with being sued than they are with racism. Priorities matter.

 

[CoMn]

Why would you resent that? You're acting like people haven't made it up for their benefit several times. Like I said earlier, I have no idea what happened but resenting either position without knowing any facts is bizarre.

Your default position is King is making something up not that something actually occurred and now we have more info and not surprising, there was racism. You owe an apology to King for suggesting he made this up.

 

[MinnGopher]

Did I ever say Bo Ryan had no Black players?
Badgers went to back to back final fours and still couldn’t get the top kids.
the academic stuff is 100% true, we lost many good kids of both races over them.
the extra year of foreign language and Algerbra, above NCAA minimums were killers.

Lmao, I always love to hear Badger fans act like they have lofty academic standards. Plenty of guys in your athletic program that scraped by with the minimum scholarship requirements, 2.5 gpa and 18 on the ACT. Quit acting like this is a huge deterrent.

 

[Otis]

I'd love to hear you guys argue both ends of the impeachment fiasco seeing how far you can go with this allegation!

There are two possibilities here:
1. King is telling the truth. This wouldn't exactly be a stretch to believe. As others have said, "It's everywhere!"
2. He is throwing it out there so the NCAA sees a contributing factor and let's him play at his new school immediately. This would actually be pretty smart.

In any case, argue away!