All Things Minnesota Timberwolves 2022-2023 In-Season Thread

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MUgopher32 said:
Philly and Minny both chose the wrong player over Butler.

Luckily for Philly they are still really good. Wolves are stuck with KAT
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I don't disagree with this take but we really blew the trade for Butler. We could have given up Wiggins instead of Lavine.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
4 games is a pretty big deal in the NBA.

Trade him for what?
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Any backcourt player who can put the ball on the floor who might play some defense.

We have slow feet.

Towns and Gobert have slow feet. It's a losing deal all day and all night.
 


Bob_Loblaw said:
I actually like the Nuggets and Jokic but he could get called for pushing players in the back on offensive rebounds on just about every position. It's difficult to watch people get called for being at all physical with him when he often plays old man bully ball on the low post.

Those two were glaring. I guarantee you those get called if the Nuggets play the Lakers.
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That's why I don't know what kind of chance the Nuggets stand the rest of the way. The Wolves were down to a skeleton roster, had the officiating disadvantage, and still just about beat them in Denver. The Nuggets didn't look as invincible as they did early in the series.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Why would that tell you that? IF we could get another similar player in return, I'd be all for it. KAT annoys me as much as the next person. However, every deal I've seen has people talking about building around role players who wouldn't be on cheap deals. The only thing harder than moving a good player who is paid too much is moving 4 average players who are paid too much (hint - you have to give up picks to get rid of them).

There would not be any free money. None.

(A) We would have to trade him for equal salary in return. So we would be building our team with 4-5 average players to take up his salary.
(B) Signing Naz has no impact on KAT. We could resign him now if they want. You can go over the cap to resign your own players and even if we got rid of KAT, we would still be over the cap.
(C) There is nothing that kills an NBA team more than overpaying for average players. KAT, while probably not a max player, is someone we could get something in return for. He has value.


How is our roster built around KAT? I'm not saying it should be, but he is playing semi-out of position at PF rather than C. The offense doesn't run through it anymore than it probably should.
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You stated that the Wolves with KAT over 82 games are 44-38 while the Wolves without KAT are 41-41.

So 3 games worse. In terms of seeding solid difference.

In terms of record not a huge gap. And that is considering that 41-41 without KAT pace is a roster that is built factoring KAT into the roster construction and salary cap.

So, if KAT were truly just not on the Wolves and they had his salary available to have other players on the roster. Something tells me it would not be difficult to make up that 3 game difference at all.

Thats why its not a direct comp. One team is a roster built with KAT playing with KAT. The other is a roster built with KAT playing without KAT. Unless KAT was literally Nate Knight. It makes sense that the team with him is better, its actually discouraging they are barely better.
 


MUgopher32 said:
You stated that the Wolves with KAT over 82 games are 44-38 while the Wolves without KAT are 41-41.

Thats why its not a direct comp. One team is a roster built with KAT playing with KAT. The other is a roster built with KAT playing without KAT. Unless KAT was literally Nate Knight. It makes sense that the team with him is better, its actually discouraging they are barely better.
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That's a little deceptive too. Towns got hurt against Indiana on Nov. 23. The Wolves were 10-8 at the time and were coming off a 5 game winning streak. The talk, even on THIS board, was how finally they were coming together!

Why? Because Gobert missed all of Training Camp because he was playing in the FIBA World Cup until August 27. Towns also missed much of Training Camp. He had lost weight to play a brand new position to him. The Wolves were playing with a heavily rebuilt roster. It was gonna take time for them to learn to play together. That 5 game winning streak showed that maybe they had figured it out.

After last season, Wolves fans, overwhelming on here, demanded that the Wolves get a Center who played Defense and rebounded. They got that in Gobert.

Then Towns, who was their leading rebounder, scorer and 3pt shooter from 21-22, got hurt and played in only 29 of their 82 games. 35% of the season.

Then they complained that they needed a Center who scored and shot better.

Nobody knows if the Twin Towers experiment will work. When they finally got into the playoffs it was without their best defender and their back-up Center. One who was tearing it up in the games before he got hurt.

Didn't like the Gobert trade? Me neither. Thought that the experiment was a failure? Nobody, not even the trolls, know that. All one can know is that the season was.
 

MUgopher32 said:
You stated that the Wolves with KAT over 82 games are 44-38 while the Wolves without KAT are 41-41.

So 3 games worse. In terms of seeding solid difference.

In terms of record not a huge gap. And that is considering that 41-41 without KAT pace is a roster that is built factoring KAT into the roster construction and salary cap.

So, if KAT were truly just not on the Wolves and they had his salary available to have other players on the roster. Something tells me it would not be difficult to make up that 3 game difference at all.

Thats why its not a direct comp. One team is a roster built with KAT playing with KAT. The other is a roster built with KAT playing without KAT. Unless KAT was literally Nate Knight. It makes sense that the team with him is better, its actually discouraging they are barely better.
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No, they wouldn't. This is the piece with NBA salaries that people don't understand.

Because you can go over the cap to sign your own players, we would not have any cap space. In order to get cap space for KAT, we would need to trade him for a bunch of expiring contracts and let Conley walk. We would then need to convince a player better than KAT to sign into that chunk.
 

kg21 said:
Any backcourt player who can put the ball on the floor who might play some defense.

We have slow feet.

Towns and Gobert have slow feet. It's a losing deal all day and all night.
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I agree with this, if we can get a borderline all star kind of player for Towns, I'd do it in a heart beat.

I just don't know if there are any available, all of the ones with similar salaries are either garbage or not available.

I don't think we could throw anything at OKC to pry Shai.
I've thought about a package to Memphis centered around Desmond Bane but that would be almost impossible to get salaries to work.
Is Atlanta ready to move on Dejounte Murray - maybe a deal of Collins + Murray+pick for Towns and filler?
Maybe Klay + Kuminga for Towns + Prince?
 

Jimmy Bulter man. The guys a crazy human but he can ball when you need it. The bucks inability to make field goals in the 4th quarter and overtime is crazy.

The bucks were 28 - 45 from the line and Miami was 11-17 and the bucks still blew it. Giannis was 10-23 from the line, so he single handedly cost them the game.
 



Bob_Loblaw said:
No, they wouldn't. This is the piece with NBA salaries that people don't understand.

Because you can go over the cap to sign your own players, we would not have any cap space. In order to get cap space for KAT, we would need to trade him for a bunch of expiring contracts and let Conley walk. We would then need to convince a player better than KAT to sign into that chunk.
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What???

I am saying we literally could have just not paid KAT and used his salary somewhere else.

Its not simple to see haha.

Team A: KAT has his salary. Hes fully healthy and plays. They are a 44-38 pace

Team B: KAt has his salary. Hes not fully healthy so the team has to play without him while hes taking up most of their cap. They are a 41-41 slightly worse pace.

Team C(hypothetically): KAT is not here in any way. However that is. Hes never signed to an extension. Hes gone. All that money spent on him has other players no paid to be on the roster. That team can make up a whopping 3 game difference.

This is all about the fact that KAT does not make that big of an impact. We are max paying a guy that makes us barely better than a team that plays without him while just eating away his cap
 

MUgopher32 said:
What???

I am saying we literally could have just not paid KAT and used his salary somewhere else.

Its not simple to see haha.

Team A: KAT has his salary. Hes fully healthy and plays. They are a 44-38 pace

Team B: KAt has his salary. Hes not fully healthy so the team has to play without him while hes taking up most of their cap. They are a 41-41 slightly worse pace.

Team C(hypothetically): KAT is not here in any way. However that is. Hes never signed to an extension. Hes gone. All that money spent on him has other players no paid to be on the roster. That team can make up a whopping 3 game difference.

This is all about the fact that KAT does not make that big of an impact. We are max paying a guy that makes us barely better than a team that plays without him while just eating away his cap
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No we couldn't. I'm not trying to be an ass, but I don't think you have an understanding of the NBA CBA.

First, his extension doesn't kick in until 2024/2025, so the extension has absolutely nothing to do with our current salary cap.

So lets talk about the differences between Team B and Team C, just in terms of finances.

Team B - He takes up 22% of the total salary (if you want to call that "most", go ahead). Because you can go over the cap to sign your own players, KAT does not preclude us from re-signing any of our guys.

So let's go to C.

We somehow remove KAT from the books (we traded him last year for a person expiring) and he is now OFF the books completely.

Our salary cap hit would be $113 million (same team without KAT).
The salary cap is $123 million - so we now have $10 million dollars to play. However, because we are not over the cap we would NOT qualify for the MLE or bi-annual MLE.
  • So without KAT we have $10 million to play.
Now with KAT, we would be over the cap we qualify for the MLE, that is over $10. So we would have the $10 million to spend on free agents.
 

From the Parkinglot said:
Jimmy Bulter man. The guys a crazy human but he can ball when you need it. The bucks inability to make field goals in the 4th quarter and overtime is crazy.

The bucks were 28 - 45 from the line and Miami was 11-17 and the bucks still blew it. Giannis was 10-23 from the line, so he single handedly cost them the game.
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Barero was over the moon when talking about a tibs/butler matchup. Won’t stop talking about how the wolves should have kept butler. There is zero chance butler would still be here. No way…never. He was never staying in Minnesota. Common man said butler sounded humble in his interviews 😂😂😎😎😂. Crazy how little these guys know about what they are paid to talk about!
 

7Gopher7 said:
Barero was over the moon when talking about a tibs/butler matchup. Won’t stop talking about how the wolves should have kept butler. There is zero chance butler would still be here. No way…never. He was never staying in Minnesota. Common man said butler sounded humble in his interviews 😂😂😎😎😂. Crazy how little these guys know about what they are paid to talk about!
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if the wolves had paid him $200 million he would have stayed. Like all guys he just wanted to get paid and the wolves made it clear they were not gonna pay him.
 



7Gopher7 said:
Barero was over the moon when talking about a tibs/butler matchup. Won’t stop talking about how the wolves should have kept butler. There is zero chance butler would still be here. No way…never. He was never staying in Minnesota. Common man said butler sounded humble in his interviews 😂😂😎😎😂. Crazy how little these guys know about what they are paid to talk about!
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Barreiro is a loon.
 

7Gopher7 said:
Barero was over the moon when talking about a tibs/butler matchup. Won’t stop talking about how the wolves should have kept butler. There is zero chance butler would still be here. No way…never. He was never staying in Minnesota. Common man said butler sounded humble in his interviews 😂😂😎😎😂. Crazy how little these guys know about what they are paid to talk about!
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Indeed you're right. Uncle Fester forgot that it was Butler that forced his way outta here? Odd. Then he went to Philly where they couldn't get rid of him fast enough. But he has had a great playoff so far.

As for the Barriero and Common? They serve the same purpose on KFAN that the trolls do online.

For them if the team isn't the Vikings, it's their job and pleasure to stick the needle in often and deep.

And like the trolls that show-up only to whine and complain, no reason to give a "bleep" about what they say anyway.
 

From the Parkinglot said:
if the wolves had paid him $200 million he would have stayed. Like all guys he just wanted to get paid and the wolves made it clear they were not gonna pay him.
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No, he would have taken the money and then requested a trade. He would not be the first one to do that either.
 

Jeff Teague went on a podcast and told the infamous Jimmy Butler beating the starters with the G-league players story.

This was probably my favorite quote:

"Mind you, he ain't took off his Jordan warmup yet. He finally takes it off. He got the Timberwolves shirt on but he cut the 'Minnesota' out so it's just chest. He cut the 'Minnesota' out the shorts, it's just shorts. He out here with a hole in the middle of his shirt and the middle of his leg, so I'm crying now, I'm crying. I'm like, 'Yo, bro's crazy.' But I didn't realize he just beat us with the G-League team.

 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Jeff Teague went on a podcast and told the infamous Jimmy Butler beating the starters with the G-league players story.

This was probably my favorite quote:

"Mind you, he ain't took off his Jordan warmup yet. He finally takes it off. He got the Timberwolves shirt on but he cut the 'Minnesota' out so it's just chest. He cut the 'Minnesota' out the shorts, it's just shorts. He out here with a hole in the middle of his shirt and the middle of his leg, so I'm crying now, I'm crying. I'm like, 'Yo, bro's crazy.' But I didn't realize he just beat us with the G-League team.

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Towns!!!

In reality, we should have never hired Thibs and stayed on the rebuild path. Wigs, towns, lavine, Murray over Dunn. LFG

But when they traded for butler, they should have found a way to keep him happy.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
No we couldn't. I'm not trying to be an ass, but I don't think you have an understanding of the NBA CBA.

First, his extension doesn't kick in until 2024/2025, so the extension has absolutely nothing to do with our current salary cap.

So lets talk about the differences between Team B and Team C, just in terms of finances.

Team B - He takes up 22% of the total salary (if you want to call that "most", go ahead). Because you can go over the cap to sign your own players, KAT does not preclude us from re-signing any of our guys.

So let's go to C.

We somehow remove KAT from the books (we traded him last year for a person expiring) and he is now OFF the books completely.

Our salary cap hit would be $113 million (same team without KAT).
The salary cap is $123 million - so we now have $10 million dollars to play. However, because we are not over the cap we would NOT qualify for the MLE or bi-annual MLE.
  • So without KAT we have $10 million to play.
Now with KAT, we would be over the cap we qualify for the MLE, that is over $10. So we would have the $10 million to spend on free agents.
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Correct so we would have money to spend to add players.

Or like I said.....IF WE NEVER EVEN RESIGNED him.

That is the exact point I am making. KAT isnt a difference maker clearly by record. So having him on the team and paying him whatever its going to be each year makes it not a good move. I picked $38 mil as a arbitrary number(because I think thats what he is next year and then it massively jumps).

Whether we have $50 mil to spend, $38 mil, $10 mil or some other total. Our record with KAT vs our record without KAT shows he doesnt make enough of a difference and any money matters.

Of course a team with one of their highest paid players out is going to be worse without them. Its sad its only that little a difference. So you might as well try and get assets/free up money as soon as possible.

He never should have been extended. And now since we are stuck with Rudy. He needs to be gone because those two dont fit.
 

MUgopher32 said:
Correct so we would have money to spend to add players.

Or like I said.....IF WE NEVER EVEN RESIGNED him.

That is the exact point I am making. KAT isnt a difference maker clearly by record. So having him on the team and paying him whatever its going to be each year makes it not a good move. I picked $38 mil as a arbitrary number(because I think thats what he is next year and then it massively jumps).

Whether we have $50 mil to spend, $38 mil, $10 mil or some other total. Our record with KAT vs our record without KAT shows he doesnt make enough of a difference and any money matters.

Of course a team with one of their highest paid players out is going to be worse without them. Its sad its only that little a difference. So you might as well try and get assets/free up money as soon as possible.

He never should have been extended. And now since we are stuck with Rudy. He needs to be gone because those two dont fit.
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No, we wouldn't.

I don't know why you're dug in on this, but you're wrong.

We have $10 million to spend next year if KAT disappeared from our roster.

We would have about $14 million to spend because of the MLE and Biannual Exception because we do have KAT on the roster.
 

JimmyJamesMD said:
Towns!!!

In reality, we should have never hired Thibs and stayed on the rebuild path. Wigs, towns, lavine, Murray over Dunn. LFG

But when they traded for butler, they should have found a way to keep him happy.
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I agree on Butler, but that would have been difficult. At that point it was Towns team, and judging by the numbers he was putting up at his age, it's hard to argue with that. But Towns was never going to work with Jimmy or Thibs, which is why I think it's funny that some people are buying that Thibs and the Knicks would actually be interested in trading for him.
 

MUgopher32 said:
Correct so we would have money to spend to add players.

Or like I said.....IF WE NEVER EVEN RESIGNED him.

That is the exact point I am making. KAT isnt a difference maker clearly by record. So having him on the team and paying him whatever its going to be each year makes it not a good move. I picked $38 mil as a arbitrary number(because I think thats what he is next year and then it massively jumps).

Whether we have $50 mil to spend, $38 mil, $10 mil or some other total. Our record with KAT vs our record without KAT shows he doesnt make enough of a difference and any money matters.

Of course a team with one of their highest paid players out is going to be worse without them. Its sad its only that little a difference. So you might as well try and get assets/free up money as soon as possible.

He never should have been extended. And now since we are stuck with Rudy. He needs to be gone because those two dont fit.
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If KAT wasn't extended, he would have still been under contract this year and next.
 

JimmyJamesMD said:
Towns!!!

In reality, we should have never hired Thibs and stayed on the rebuild path. Wigs, towns, lavine, Murray over Dunn. LFG

But when they traded for butler, they should have found a way to keep him happy.
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Honestly, I think the entire franchise changes if we handled the Butler trade slightly better.

The thought was that Chicago would have taken Wiggins for Lavine.

If that trade is Wiggins, Dunn, #7 for Butler and #16.

At #16, we decided to pick Patton over Allen or Ononuby because of his supposed upside, but let's assume we were dug in on a C and we go Jarrett Allen.

Now, let's assume we never do the Rubio for Teague fiasco (trade Rubio for a pick and sign Teague who was awful). Part of the reasoning for that trade was we needed more shooting, it wouldn't have been as needed with Lavine.

C: Towns
PF: Taj
SF: Butler
SG: Lavine
PG: Rubio

Bench:
Tyus
Gorgui
Rose
Crawford
Bjelica

I think that team goes a lot further. I'm not sure if Jimmy doesn't still tear it all down playing with Towns, but then you just refused to trade Jimmy and trade Towns.
 


Bob_Loblaw said:
Honestly, I think the entire franchise changes if we handled the Butler trade slightly better.

The thought was that Chicago would have taken Wiggins for Lavine.

If that trade is Wiggins, Dunn, #7 for Butler and #16.

At #16, we decided to pick Patton over Allen or Ononuby because of his supposed upside, but let's assume we were dug in on a C and we go Jarrett Allen.

Now, let's assume we never do the Rubio for Teague fiasco (trade Rubio for a pick and sign Teague who was awful). Part of the reasoning for that trade was we needed more shooting, it wouldn't have been as needed with Lavine.

C: Towns
PF: Taj
SF: Butler
SG: Lavine
PG: Rubio

Bench:
Tyus
Gorgui
Rose
Crawford
Bjelica

I think that team goes a lot further. I'm not sure if Jimmy doesn't still tear it all down playing with Towns, but then you just refused to trade Jimmy and trade Towns.
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Thibs obviously not a good drafter. Dunn over Murray, Patton over Allen and Onubody.
The only good thing about drafting Dunn is the wolves won that trade. Even losing Butler it was worth the risk. Now had we drafted Murray then traded for Butler, it would have looked a lot uglier.

Still would have been interesting to have hired the right coach and not blown up the roster. Wiggins would have been pretty good with a role like hes in now. He would have been the wolves 4th option.
 




So the Wolves played (and lost) to both the Lakers & Nuggets post-2023 Regular Season. Those teams will square off in the 2023 Western Conference Finals.

I thought that was really unique and next to impossible to duplicate. Then I looked at the Eastern Conference Finals, Miami against Boston. Atlanta also played both teams, beating but not eliminating the Heat and then losing to the Celtics.

So, not so unique.
 

Last night's Miami/Boston game. If you were shooting over 50% inside the arc and were shooting 4 for 22 outside the arc wouldn't you quite jacking-up 3's?

Boston didn't. They ended-up hitting 9 of 42 3's and losing by 19.
 

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